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    BSSHD Disable PAS, changing cassette.

    Hello all, this is my first post, so I apologize in advance if this has been discussed before but I have spent much time researching and I am still unsure about these topics.

    I purchased a BBSHD Kit from Luna with 17ah battery and it shipped yesterday. I purchased the 42t front chain ring with it. I did not purchase the brake cut off switch for my hydraulic brakes because I read it did not work that well. I have read that when using PAS that after I stop pedaling the motor can continue for a short time afterword which could be disastrous when trying to stop quickly or at least be quite scary. I have 2 questions about this.

    1. Can I disable PAS and just use the throttle? That would eliminate this possibility and I can live with just using the throttle. (It is not clear if it is possible to disabled from the display dashboard, or if you can reprogram the controller)

    2. In the description of my the BBSHD I ordered, Luna states.. "Hot Rod Programmed with Luna's exclusive program settings" I have read you can program the BBSHD to not have this delay after you stop pedaling to cut the motor off. Does this "Hotrod Program" have this feature enabled? This too could solve my problem.

    The next topic. I don't want to blow the motor up. I have read that you don't want to be in a high gear going up steep hills, that you want the motor at high RPMs when under duress. I think I broke my freewheel and will have it replaced. I have read that I should upgrade to a
    Sunrace CSMS3 10 speed Cassette Black 11-42
    steel rear cassette. I would have to replace my derailleur and shifter which will be about 200 dollars (I have a 10-Speed, 11-36T now and I did order the 42t front chain ring). If this upgrade is necessary, it is better to do it now as the bike shop will not charge as much labor if I do it all at the same time. So my question.

    3. Is the upgraded cassette necessary or highly recommended? Is the $200 worth it? (my pocket book is still feeling he pain of the kit purchase) Any thoughts or personal experience would be helpful.


    4. Does anyone know what the settings are for the "Hot Rod Programmed with Luna's exclusive program settings" and how it would affect reliability and longevity?

    #2
    Why do you think you broke your freewheel?

    Comment


      #3
      1. Can I disable PAS and just use the throttle?

      ​Yes see electric bike blog Karl wore about it. I don't advise.

      2. also see Karl's blog for programming guides.

      3. Wahy and upgraded cassette for $200?

      4. NO many have run similar setting for several years. I wish they'd lose the "Hot Rod" bit. It only means the programing is set for maximum performance. That performance will not educe longevity or reliability.

      Comment


        #4
        I run that cassette, which is about $60, with my stock (medium cage length) Sram X7 shifter and derailleur. Derailleurs with short cages might be able to work by installing a longer B tension screw. Or a longer cage should be available. Why do you think you need new shifting gear?
        Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

        Comment


          #5
          Just use your stock controller to set 0 on PAS, no need for re programing.I mean, that's why the 0 is there right? When PAS is not desired, you get rid of it, when you want it its just a few clicks away.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post
            Why do you think you broke your freewheel?
            I do not have the kit yet this had nothing to do with the broken Freehub.. I took the bike into the bike shop, when I would pedal it would not turn the wheel, it would spin. They took it a part. The part broke in an unusual way which the manufacturer may replace it under warranty even thought the bike is out of warranty. I was concerned that this part was weak and that I was able to break it under normal use which would be bad if you added an electric motor (realize, I am a big guy and I do stress the bike more than a young mountain biker). But to be safe I am going to look at a stronger alternative for a freehub.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Louis Luna View Post
              1. Can I disable PAS and just use the throttle?

              ​Yes see electric bike blog Karl wore about it. I don't advise.
              You have to break open the motor to do this, not going to happen form me unless it is out of warranty and something goes wrong.

              2. also see Karl's blog for programming guides.
              I will look, the guy seems very negative about the BBSHD, which he considers very underwelming. Yet he seems to be a wealth of information.
              3. Wahy and upgraded cassette for $200?
              Well I thought I would have to upgrade the derailleur and shifter. But the bike shop told me I may not have to.
              4. NO many have run similar setting for several years. I wish they'd lose the "Hot Rod" bit. It only means the programing is set for maximum performance. That performance will not educe longevity or reliability.
              Good thing about the longevity and reliability.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by JPLabs View Post
                I run that cassette, which is about $60, with my stock (medium cage length) Sram X7 shifter and derailleur. Derailleurs with short cages might be able to work by installing a longer B tension screw. Or a longer cage should be available. Why do you think you need new shifting gear?
                I am going to buy the cassette tonight. My ignorance cause me to think I needed a shifter and derailleur, I may not need either.

                Comment


                • JPLabs
                  JPLabs commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Hey, we all start 'ignorant' :)

                  Keep in mind you will probably need a longer chain. 112 link chains weren't long enough for 42T front and rear, on my bike. I needed to get the 136 link chain and cut it down. Search 'determine bike chain length'.....

                  Then when installed, as you are testing the shifting and adjusting, be very careful. Things might bind up if you get it wrong. Do this while the bike is hanging, and gently pedal by hand with motor orr, so you can stop if it all goes catywompus on you.

                  If a chain is a little too short, the downshift to 1st gear may work fine, but when you do the 1-2 upshift, the idlers can bind up in the cassette. That would destroy the derailleur if you were riding. (last night I mis-measured and cut a chain one link too short for my new bike, thus I learned this).
                  Last edited by JPLabs; 07-31-2016, 07:36 AM.

                #9
                Originally posted by CPG View Post
                Just use your stock controller to set 0 on PAS, no need for re programing.I mean, that's why the 0 is there right? When PAS is not desired, you get rid of it, when you want it its just a few clicks away.
                From what I have read, the 0 setting still applies power, not sure how much though 1 percent perhaps I thought I read.

                Comment


                • JPLabs
                  JPLabs commented
                  Editing a comment
                  It isn't enough to notice when riding, though. It's not even enough to show on the watt meter. PAS 0 is effectively no PAS.
                  Last edited by JPLabs; 07-31-2016, 07:42 AM.

                #10
                With my Luna BBSHD, PAS 0 provides no power from pedal sensing. The throttle still works. My understanding is that the normal BBS programming disables both PAS and Throttle in PAS 0, but I can't report experience on that as I only have the Luna BBSHD. But each time you turn the system on it starts in PAS 1 and you'll have to set to PAS 0. I seem to recall a setting to control the initial PAS setting in the programming software so perhaps it can be set to come on at PAS 0. But I don't think it is necessary.

                Now, let's talk about shifting, brake sensors and PAS. I have hydraulic brakes, so when I built the RidgeRunner (DiamondBack Overdrive, which I wrote an article that was published on electricbike.com, so you can read about it), I didn't have brake sensing. When you stop pedaling there is power for a short time. There are two ways to stop this power more promptly, one is to pedal backwards, the other is to touch the throttle. That's right, just touch the throttle. We need to remember that this setup is programmed for Throttle Priority (at least mine is), and any throttle, even a tiny bit turns PAS off instantly. If you just touch the throttle, it won't run the motor, and PAS motor power will stop. So you have two options to stop motor power during shifting without shift or brake sensors or other changes.

                Now, more about that. Power during shifting may not be the best thing to do, but I do it every now and then, and it isn't a big deal, or hasn't been for me. No broken parts have resulted.

                However, the best thing is to get brakes that have switches in them to disable the power. I just bought new hydraulic brakes that have the switches built into them. Very nice setup, and at the same time I got larger and thicker discs. The brake system is improved, and the switches are inside the levers and factory wired with BBSHD plugs.

                Of course the other option is to connect up a shift sensor that disables the power. I have yet to try that, but you remind me that I have one and should do that. But my older BBSHD doesn't have an input for it, so that's another project. It can be connected to the brake input, but I have heard that on the newer BBS drives there is a separate connector, and this may have less delay to returning the power than the brake connector has. Plus both my brake connectors are filled as I replaced both brakes with BBS ready hydraulic brakes and levers.

                -- Alan
                Alan B

                Comment


                • JPLabs
                  JPLabs commented
                  Editing a comment
                  "Plus both my brake connectors are filled as I replaced both brakes with BBS ready hydraulic brakes and levers."

                  There is a brake splitter (y-cable) available to give you an extra input if needed.

                #11
                I have a newer BBS02 with shift and brake sensors. Live in Seattle where we do a lot of shifting :-) The shift sensor is very nice.. Quick interrupt and power return.. Very smooth and fast. I can downshift going uphill without causing any unhappy sounds from the cogs. Also, because I have the brake sensors, I was unaware of the lag in motor drive cutoff. Always stops when I expect it too. All of the sensors may not be necessary for flat-landers, but they do make the system behave nicely.

                Comment


                  #12
                  Originally posted by Alan B View Post
                  With my Luna BBSHD, PAS 0 provides no power from pedal sensing. The throttle still works. My understanding is that the normal BBS programming disables both PAS and Throttle in PAS 0, but I can't report experience on that as I only have the Luna BBSHD. But each time you turn the system on it starts in PAS 1 and you'll have to set to PAS 0. I seem to recall a setting to control the initial PAS setting in the programming software so perhaps it can be set to come on at PAS 0. But I don't think it is necessary.

                  Thanks, you are the second person that said this so I hope mine works the same way with no modification.

                  Now, let's talk about shifting, brake sensors and PAS. I have hydraulic brakes, so when I built the RidgeRunner (DiamondBack Overdrive, which I wrote an article that was published on electricbike.com,

                  I will read this.

                  There are two ways to stop this power more promptly, one is to pedal backwards, the other is to touch the throttle. That's right, just touch the throttle. We need to remember that this setup is programmed for Throttle Priority (at least mine is), and any throttle, even a tiny bit turns PAS off instantly. If you just touch the throttle, it won't run the motor, and PAS motor power will stop. So you have two options to stop motor power during shifting without shift or brake sensors or other changes.

                  This is great news, thanks, I can live with pedal backwards.

                  Now, more about that. Power during shifting may not be the best thing to do, but I do it every now and then, and it isn't a big deal, or hasn't been for me. No broken parts have resulted.

                  I ordered and am going to install the shift sensor.

                  Plus both my brake connectors are filled as I replaced both brakes with BBS ready hydraulic brakes and levers.

                  -- Alan
                  I did not order the brake sensors because I heard they were problematic. I am hoping I can live with touching throttle or turning pedals backwards and I will not have to bother. Thanks for the info.

                  Comment


                    #13
                    Originally posted by Arboh View Post
                    I have a newer BBS02 with shift and brake sensors. Live in Seattle where we do a lot of shifting :-) The shift sensor is very nice.. Quick interrupt and power return.. Very smooth and fast. I can downshift going uphill without causing any unhappy sounds from the cogs. Also, because I have the brake sensors, I was unaware of the lag in motor drive cutoff. Always stops when I expect it too. All of the sensors may not be necessary for flat-landers, but they do make the system behave nicely.
                    The downside to all of this is that you buy everything sight unseen. Not sure if will even fit your bike. So you read as much as you can and hope for the best and can only rely on what others have written. Some have issue some report delays in stopping and some don't. Perhaps some of the posts are older and those issues have been worked through as the product evolves, again I don't know but it is exciting to read others that have not have the lag that is discussed. If I don't have those issues and I can disable PAS I will be a happy camper, if it all fits. I have 2 bikes, a full suspension mountain bike and a mountain/cross bike with only front suspension. If it does not fit on the full suspension bike, It should fit on the other bike. Either way I am going off road with it.

                    Comment


                      #14
                      I did purchase the brake cut-off switch for one of my BBSHD bikes (and I use the Bafang brakes on my other BBSHD) and so far it has worked flawlessly. At first I didn't like it (and the way it it is installed on a bike) and wished I hadn't installed it, but, after my first 100 miles of riding I haven't had any problems at all. I worry about losing the magnet because I just have it magnetically stuck to my brakes, not ziptied in. But, that hasn't happened either. I recommend you try the brake sensors, since they are inexpensive and safe(r). The other thing that surprised was how much I like PAS. my other bikes don't have it so I was used to the throttle. But, I find the PAS smooth and delightful and tend to use it 90% of the time. I often use it too so I don't look like I have a motor on my bike and risk the ire of other trail riders. You may find you like it too, if you try it. Of course, set it to 0 if you don't like it. I also recommend the shift sensor, it works great.

                      Comment


                      • JPLabs
                        JPLabs commented
                        Editing a comment
                        A drop of superglue on the magnet is a good idea....you can till pop it off if you ever want to. Just warm it up a little if it's stubborn.

                      #15
                      Blizzard, this has not been a very good experience for me. I was going to buy a front hub system from another company, they said it was easy and a bolt on process. Then I found Luna and several others selling these things. I was going to buy the 02 but Luna site said "More efficiency than the BBS02 means more power and more range" ok, I pay more money for the HD because bigger must be better. Then I decide on the on what size. I have 2 bikes, I was planning on getting a second one if the first one worked well. I go to my bike shop ask them what the bottom brackets for my two bikes. 67 and 73. Bingo. I am in like flynn. I am not sure what parts to order. So I do a google search and find a huge amount of information all over the place. Yes buy the shifter interupter thing, no don't buy the system for your hydraulic brakes it does not work, the stock chainwheel.. "it is evil, don't touch it" You need the 42t from Luna. Ok so I buy that with the kit but it is the wrong thing. You need the eclipse. Then I start reading more. You must use a micrometer to measure the bottom bracket, measure it twice. Then you find out about your swingarm may swing out too far and the unit won't fit. Then there are chain alignment problems, they you find out issues with programing. Then you find out your bottom bracket has to have threads, then you find out you should have bought the bigger size and use spacers to make it work.

                      Right about now you are saying OMG call the wambulance, who is this guy complaining and he does not even have the unit yet.

                      Well in my defense here WERE my expectation on the Luna site and others.
                      "spacers and bolts to help you adjust the BBSHD to fit your bottom bracket width.
                      "We provide a free spacer kit to ensure an easy installation."
                      "No technical knowledge necessary to install"

                      Sorry, I don't have a micrometer and you do need to know how to read one. This seems you need a lot of technical knowledge, and you must do tons of research as well. I watched the videos, I said, no problem I can do that. But after reading all the issues others have had with chain alignment issues and install problems I am not sure I would have jumped on the BBSHD so soon or even at all knowing what I know now.

                      Anyway. the day after I order, I call Luna, several times, they don't answer the phone so I leave a voicemail saying I would like to upgrade the battery to a bigger one (didn't think to check to see if the battery fit in my full suspension bike, after checking, I could get a bigger battery) and asked them to call me back I was also going to upgrade to the Eclipse. I also send an email saying the same thing. It bounced. No one called me back then that night they send a tracking number saying it shipped.

                      So I have made mistakes, maybe I should have bought the brake system. But I didn't know, you say it works, someone else says it does not. The whole process has not been good and I cannot contact Luna. I feel like I was mislead then when I try and correct the problem, I am left out in the lurch. So I am not a happy camper right now.

                      Maybe things will be better when I get the unit and it fits but even so, I still have to return the 42t ring and get the $100 unit which I was not expecting and order the braking system. It seems the unit has not been shipped out only the ticket has been requested. I have had this happen before with ebay purchases, they tell you it shipped but they don't ship it out for a week but it looks like it ships from the tracking number, Luna may not be doing this but I am fustrated at this point.


                      Comment


                      • Blizzard
                        Blizzard commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Richard, bummer! I didn't have as many problems as you... but, I did a few different things:
                        1 - I researched the type of "donor" bike and found other people doing the install... I don't have a micrometer thingie either. but, I know what size bbshd to buy because of what previous builder's recommended!
                        2 - I did buy extra spacer kits, just in case, and used them
                        3- technical knowledge? yea, some knowledge is needed... but, I got mine by trolling forums, watching youtube videos, and reading a book about mountain bike maintenance.

                        As far as Luna support goes, they should take better care of you!
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