Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Chain Issue

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Chain Issue

    I found that a dirty chain is the cause of most of the clicking sounds I have been experiencing since my BBSHD installation. It's not a loose motor or lack of grease on the main gear in spite of putting efforts there numerous times in an attempt to fix it.

    I started with a 10 speed SRAM PC-1051 chain because I had a new one when I installed the BBSHD. It lasted 1500 miles of trail riding before showing too much stretch. I replaced it with a KMC X10 which lasted only 700 miles. I went back to to the SRAM and got 1500 miles again. I have another new SRAM on the bike now, and I am finding I have to completely clean and lube the chain after only two 20 mile rides on the dirt or it will start clicking. I can't figure out if it is one link or the connecting link that causes the sound. I have a new Sunrace 11-46 Cassette and Luna Eclipse 42 chain ring.

    I have been using Finish Line Dry lube and I get about two rides with a wipe down between rides. I tried Boeshield, but it was only good for one ride.

    Any other ideas on chain lube or should I invest in a more expensive chain rather than lube and cleaning products?


    #2
    What kind of a time span is this 1500 miles over? That would be a year for me and it would not bother me if I had to replace a chain every year especially if it didn't seem to be hurting the cassettes. I have been running Squirt liquid wax and so far it s been great but I didn't that that many miles on last year so I really don't know how well its going to do for wear. Hopefully will be fining out this summer. The main reason I am sticking with it is so far I have never had to do any sort of wiping or cleaning and you can easily wipe off anything that gets on your fingers when you have to handle the chain if it falls off or you have to change a tire. The regular lubes are so messy. Now if it turns out that i'm only getting 500 miles with the wax vs 1500 with messy stuff I will re consider but so far so good.

    Comment


    • designerron
      designerron commented
      Editing a comment
      1500 miles every 4 months or so. Once I put the motor on I doubled my mileage and frequency. Just having too much fun!

      I found the thread with the discussion on Squirt. I think I will give it a try. Other MTB forums say SRAM chains work great with Sunrace, and it does shift smooth. So for the price I'll stick with it for now.

    #3
    I use the Park CC2 chain "measuring" tool. KMC chains can be.5mm stretched when new. Wippermann ( godawful expensive) start at 0mm. Squirt makes an E bike lube. haven't tried SRAM. I was running Wippermann before the BBSHD. It didn't seem like the time to stop using them.
    I'm not real cost sensitive, but reliability is crucial for me. I went away from the quick links and bought a Rohloff Revolver chain splicing tool. It cross peens the pin when you press it back in. Most people probably won't do this. I've broken a couple of the links. Replace often and carry a spare.
    if riding in the dirt I would probably look into cheaper options.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 04-11-2022, 01:32 PM.

    Comment


    • Retrorockit
      Retrorockit commented
      Editing a comment
      AZguy rides in the desert and likes inexpensive KMC chains. We both like the disposable Sunrace casettes.

    • AZguy
      AZguy commented
      Editing a comment
      For clarity I've been running (even lower cost) shimano ultegra 11sp (HG701)

      Been very good for me - last one gave me 3000mi

    • designerron
      designerron commented
      Editing a comment
      I have never measured a chain when it's new. Maybe that's why my KMC failed so soon - stretched out of the box. I use the Park stamped tool and replace chains at 0.5.

    #4
    I am using the squirt e bike formula in the summer. I'm not sure if its special or not. I mostly went with it because it was in stock when the regular is often sold out lately. I do sort of wonder what could be special about E bike lube. If its got some superior anti wear properties why would you not want that on any bike? Like I said no science involved and not a whole heck of a lot miles yet. Its the not needing to wipe it down and minimal mess that I really like so far.

    Comment


    • designerron
      designerron commented
      Editing a comment
      I read a review on Finish Line's e-Bike lube, also not scientific, but that rider found he needed to apply it more often than a regular lube. Not what I was looking for. Hope you have better luck with Squirt e-bike formula.

    • Retrorockit
      Retrorockit commented
      Editing a comment
      I do apply Squirt very often. My bike has a 2 leg center stand and rests with the back wheel off the ground. Not much work to run the chain through a rag, and drip some lube on it. Some times I'll even give it scrub with a nylon brush.Squirt claims there is a layering effect from the applications.
      Be sure the motor is off when doing this. Turning the cranks can drag a finger into the gearing.
      Last edited by Retrorockit; 04-12-2022, 06:44 AM.

    #5
    Originally posted by designerron View Post
    I found that a dirty chain is the cause of most of the clicking sounds I have been experiencing since my BBSHD installation. It's not a loose motor or lack of grease on the main gear in spite of putting efforts there numerous times in an attempt to fix it.

    I started with a 10 speed SRAM PC-1051 chain because I had a new one when I installed the BBSHD. It lasted 1500 miles of trail riding before showing too much stretch. I replaced it with a KMC X10 which lasted only 700 miles. I went back to to the SRAM and got 1500 miles again. I have another new SRAM on the bike now, and I am finding I have to completely clean and lube the chain after only two 20 mile rides on the dirt or it will start clicking. I can't figure out if it is one link or the connecting link that causes the sound. I have a new Sunrace 11-46 Cassette and Luna Eclipse 42 chain ring.

    I have been using Finish Line Dry lube and I get about two rides with a wipe down between rides. I tried Boeshield, but it was only good for one ride.

    Any other ideas on chain lube or should I invest in a more expensive chain rather than lube and cleaning products?
    Ahhh chain maintenance on a bike board... almost like discussing religion or politics Click image for larger version  Name:	wink.gif Views:	0 Size:	439 Bytes ID:	150196


    I only notice noise from a "dry" chain when shifting so suspect that it's from the cassette in my case...

    As an experiment I ran a chain without ever doing any maintenance to it at all, including lube... it still lasted long enough, >1000mi but was totally shagged at that point.. the experiment was to see whether the time it took to maintain the chain was worth it economically even though we understood it would reduce the life... but those HG701's I have been using were $30 at the time and even if only two minutes for lubing (about all I do and with whatever lube is handy) the conclusion was that from a purely economical standpoint it wasn't worth maintaining the chain as it would value my time at well below minimum wage.

    OTOH it shifted rough and made a lot of noise when shifting... putting a new chain on it was apparent that while we all know frequent lubing will extend a chain's life (I got >3000mi on the last $30 chain that was lubed frequently) the reasons for doing it aren't economical, it's to improve the shifting... which it does quite a bit!

    I don't do anything fancy except just frequently lube with whatever lube is around, applying it directly to the chain while on the bike prior to riding, nothing fancy - just wipe the gunk off the side plates while "wet" if they look dirty. I've used numerous lubes (motor oil, squirt, transmission fluid, wax based shop "specials", boeshield, etc.) and my conclusion is that it doesn't really matter much as long as it is used often... still haven't tried cooking oil but would if that's all that was handy LOL...

    I know folks that run two chains in rotation, putting them in pots of solvent, wax, etc. but that's way more fussing with a thing that is always messy than I have patience for

    I've read the articles on chain lube comparisons and it seems like most focus on the resistance and I really don't care about that... I'd like to see one that talks about longevity and ease of maintenance instead - I'm not doing tour de france, I'm 100% recreational...


    I must be doing something right I suppose... My ginormous 11sp cassette shifts smoothly (albeit a slightly anemic going higher in the top gears due to the oversized cassette - 11-51t), quietly and as mentioned when I changed the last chain it had over 3000mi and only had a total of ~2mm stretch...

    Oh well


    As always YMMV

    Click image for larger version  Name:	ricky.gif Views:	0 Size:	1.3 KB ID:	150197

    Comment


    • AZguy
      AZguy commented
      Editing a comment
      Agree on stretch and "early" replacing

      I don't use anything fancy to measure stretch beyond a spike poking out of a rack in my shop - I hang the "chain-under-test" next to a new chain and look at the overall length difference - easy peasy and accurate as all get go

      Usually I get 0.5mm (120links or so), maybe a little more right away and then many miles go without much stretch.. then many miles later it will start to stretch and seems to accelerate.. now they say on 11sp I should replace at 0.5% which on 120links is <break out the calculator> is 7.62mm (sort of odd coincidence with all that ukraine-russia fighting) but I never let it got anywhere near that far... 2-3mm and I'm ready for the next one (that's hanging on that spike in the shop)

      Point being is that if I replace once it's getting into that accelerating time I'm likely only saving a few hundred miles but definitely saving the cassette and ring... the narrow-wide rings I'm running on the 130bcd adapter can be reversed so I might do that when I change the chain for giggles...

    • designerron
      designerron commented
      Editing a comment
      My chain never seems dry, just a bit gunky. It still shifts smoothly. It just that the darn clacking sound is so irritating. It took me a long time to discover it was the chain. I spent way too much time trying to fix it at the motor, and I guess some of the time I may have cleaned the chain a bit and then thought "It was the motor mount!"

    • Mike_V
      Mike_V commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Guy!
      (& Logical conclusion)
      "...just wipe the gunk off the side plates while "wet" if they look dirty. I've used numerous lubes (motor oil, squirt, transmission fluid, wax based shop "specials", boeshield, etc.) and my conclusion is that it doesn't really matter much as long as it is used often... still haven't tried cooking oil but would if that's all that was handy LOL..."

      That's why I'm experimenting again with Lucas' red grease.

    #6
    I must experiment.
    I will again this year with my 2022 annual chain hypothesis.
    This year a new "Prime 9" and Shimano cs-m970 lubricated with Lucas ' Red-N-Tacky ' grease.
    Cleaning will brush off grit and wipe, regrease.

    Time will tell, but first impression this chain is very ' flexible' and " forgiving " of the chain line angle.

    Here's the Pitch:
    Unique 9 Speed Chain
    ◦ Prime 9 chains have internal dimensions that are compatible with modern Wide / Narrow chainrings and similar chain retention to 11 / 12-speed chains. Externally, Prime 9 chains have dimensions similar to existing 9-speed chains. This unique geometry allows for thicker side plates than 12-speed drivetrains which resists stretching over time, increasing shifting performance while decreasing wear on the cassette and chainring.

    Comment


    • Retrorockit
      Retrorockit commented
      Editing a comment
      If you want to do a test I have couple questions.
      1- I would like to know the stretch measurement of a new chain. It can vary from 0mm (Wippermann), to .5mm (KMC).
      2- What is your chainline? Is it already good, or do you have a "situation" like mine with a flat 50T ring on a BBSHD adapter that sits out pretty far on a 73mm BB.

      I like the look of BOX components. But for street riding I'm addicted to 1x8 Shimano Rapid Rise low normal derailers.8 Speed because there are no 9 speed reverse pattern Gripshifts available.I going to be testing a bike soon with a Saint Rapid Rise derailer which is probably similar to the Box stuff in purpose.But a PITA for compatibility, and gear range.
      Last edited by Retrorockit; 04-13-2022, 07:12 AM.

    • Mike_V
      Mike_V commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm Back to the drawing board and using Finish Line wax lubricant on a used flexible dura-ace chain that is one link shorter for my 'new' 2000 Jekyll.
      Good Luck
      Last edited by Mike_V; 05-06-2022, 07:05 PM.

    #7
    Trying to keep this thread alive... I measured my SRAM chain and saw that it was stretched enough for the Park tool to show 0.5 wear. Then I noticed that the connecting link was in the middle of my measurement. Once I moved beyond the removable link there was no stretch. Hmm, so I removed the SRAM connector and tried it with a KMC Missing LInk. No stretch! Wow, I thought maybe that's the source of my clicking noise. Nope, it still clicks after 30 or 40 miles - have to clean the chain, lube and start over. Maybe I'll try a Shimano chain next.

    Comment


    • 73Eldo
      73Eldo commented
      Editing a comment
      How many miles on that link? Was it the one that came with the Sram chain? Since the new link was fine you would assume it was either a poorly made link or that the link was worn and or stretched. I will have to try measuring mine across the link just for fun. My main bikes are running Shimano chains with KMC links.

    • designerron
      designerron commented
      Editing a comment
      About 350 miles on the link that came with the chain. I went to my LBS and bought a new one, and then I measured the slot on both of them with a caliper (the slot was the only thing I could get a consistent reading on). Both slots, old and new, measured .265 inches. Then I measured the KMC link which came off a chain after 700 miles. The KMC link measured .255 inches. I'm using KMC links from now on.
Working...
X