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BBSHD with IGH and, in particular, Rohloff

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    BBSHD with IGH and, in particular, Rohloff

    I have recently got BBSHD and will be putting it on one of my bikes for commuting. I was thinking about going with IGH for low cost maintenance, and I was wondering how many people run their BBSHD with IGH? What are your experiences in terms of long-term performance, durability and costs? I have read that for a flat commute, 3-speed IGH such as Shimano Nexus or Sram i-Motion is all that you need, well maybe Alfine 8 if it is a bit hilly. All of those IGH have "direct-drive" gear.

    At the same time, I have a Rohloff hub that I wanted to put to a good use in this project. Anybody runs BBSHD with Rohloff? The blog post seems to suggest that 14-gears might cause too frequent shifting, which will be nuisance. Also, there is a concern of BBSHD being too powerful. Can share please with me your wisdom?

    http://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kit-igh/


    #2
    If you search the forum using "Rohloff", you'll get some ideas...

    Comment


      #3
      http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...oper-pro-build

      Comment


        #4
        last post mentions rolloff
        Which of these two IGHs would be most efficient and cost effective for a hill climbing BBSHD commuter build? Based on the gear ratios on Sheldon Browns

        Comment


          #5
          Rohloffs are a terrible idea with a BBSHD... Since they are such a bad idea I'll be happy to take that horrible boat anchor off your hands... I'll even pay shipping...



          Just kidding =]

          Comment


            #6
            http://www.electricbike.com/a-rohlof...electric-bike/

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you for the pointers! I have done quite a bit of reading on ebikes and IGH, but of course, googling everything is not the easiest way around. I have read quite a bit, but "Montague" experience was new and quite informative. My post was more aimed at seeing if somebody tried that and ran into (serious) problems along the way. Some blogposts mentioned BBSHD being too powerful, and Rohloff having too many speed to go though. But it appears I am good to go! Thank you very much. Such a great community!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by ryoanji View Post
                I have recently got BBSHD and will be putting it on one of my bikes for commuting. I was thinking about going with IGH for low cost maintenance, and I was wondering how many people run their BBSHD with IGH? What are your experiences in terms of long-term performance, durability and costs? I have read that for a flat commute, 3-speed IGH such as Shimano Nexus or Sram i-Motion is all that you need, well maybe Alfine 8 if it is a bit hilly. All of those IGH have "direct-drive" gear.

                At the same time, I have a Rohloff hub that I wanted to put to a good use in this project. Anybody runs BBSHD with Rohloff? The blog post seems to suggest that 14-gears might cause too frequent shifting, which will be nuisance. Also, there is a concern of BBSHD being too powerful. Can share please with me your wisdom?

                http://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kit-igh/
                I wouldn't go 14 gears simply because with bbshd you don't need them. You'll end up using 2 maybe 3 gears at all time and forget the rest exist. The BBSHD uses so much power honestly i rarely ever shift anymore. If there's a hill or something i'll go 6th gear of my 8 gears. All I ever use is 6,7 and 8 and i have 8 speed cassette paired with sram ex1 ex-horizon derailleur. Excellent derailleur and very precise for single gear shifting. another advantage to having less gears is your chain can be as thick and as strong as they make them. It's also cheaper to buy a 7-8 speed chain rather than 10-11 or 12 speed one. for me this combo works perfectly and i wouldn't change anything on my bike (as it is) well perhaps the fork but that's another subject... Hope this helps =) happy riding!!!
                PS as far as IGH i'd go with this one https://lunacycle.com/sram-dd3-igh-3...-with-shifter/

                Comment


                • calfee20
                  calfee20 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  ryoanji already has a Rohloff so he may as well use it. I just plugged the info into Sheldon Brown's gear calculator for my bike with a Rohloff. It looks like there is a 5 or 6 speed spread in there that will be used. He won't have to go through all 14 speeds and then once in a while he may need a few of his extreme speeds. I have a 24 speed hub and once in a while I need to use my lowest speed.

                #9
                I've got an 11 speed cassette 11-46t (more than 4:1) and I guarantee - I use the lowest and the highest gears *every* ride. For me it's not about how many gears, but the range. I positively use 4:1 and would be unhappy with less...

                Comment


                • intramorph
                  intramorph commented
                  Editing a comment
                  so you have a bbshd and you use every gear on your 11 speed every ride? I find that very hard to believe but hey.... I have 8 gears and use exclusively only 3 of them... If you use all your gears tell me what's the purpose of using the 46T gear in the back. maybe if you explained it to me i'd understand you better. Thanks. also you can get that exact same ratio with less gears. I don't live in the mountains and so there's no 60-70 degree heels i have to climb. Just saying for ordinary folk living in paved environment you really don't need any of those extra gears.

                • AZguy
                  AZguy commented
                  Editing a comment
                  My chain ring is a 39t so 46t isn't that low. In first it can go comfortably as low as about 2.5mph and 5mph is about my cadence limit. I ride off-road every ride including rail right-of-ways (those really rough rocks), sand, etc. Most rides include steep grades (>10-15% by gps). I often enough ride around a large crowds and can easily ride at a walking pace. I hope that explains the 46t.

                  The top gear gives a very comfortable brisk cadence (for me) at 20mph and is usable for cruise at ~17mph or more. I generally hit >17mph on every ride. That explains the range.

                  Frankly I'd prefer fewer gears with the same or more range a al sram ex-1 11-48t and I lust for it - it is about as beautiful as a derailleur system can get to my eye- but the ex-1 is waaaaay to expensive for my budget....

                  I'd seriously consider the alfine if they come out with one for 190mm x 15mm rear...

                • intramorph
                  intramorph commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I agree the ex-1 cassette is so nice but so expensive imo not worth it in the long run. but okay i get why you need such low gears. For my application though they're not needed at all. I live in a mostly quiet area with no steep rocky mountainous terrains and so yeah 11-42T is plenty enough for me and my 8 gears, Cheers happy riding

                #10
                My concern with rohloff and bbshd is the huge take up (spool up) in the lower gears. I think the bbshd would spin up before the gear engagement is loaded up. So although I was going to do the same thing I ended up using a alfine 8. (Only because its a mountain bike and climbs a lot, also I have both alfine and rohloff.

                Comment


                • McQ
                  McQ commented
                  Editing a comment
                  This seems like a good thread/topic of the forum to ask the following

                  I am building a fat tire bike (Salsa Muk Luk Ti) with BBSHD. I will use the bike to explore the back roads and some trails in Montana and to camp so hauling a trailer and extra weight at times in some off road hilly conditions. My concern is running out of battery and needing to pedal this bike to get back to my vehicle, so gearing needs to be low for this situation. Other concern is using a large rear cog say 46T and not having good chain line. I'm thinking that my solution (although expensive) would be to use Rohloff IGH 14 speed? Any ideas ? BTW I don't care too much about top end speed in my situation
                  thanks

                #11
                Originally posted by McQ
                This seems like a good thread/topic of the forum to ask the following

                I am building a fat tire bike (Salsa Muk Luk Ti) with BBSHD. I will use the bike to explore the back roads and some trails in Montana and to camp so hauling a trailer and extra weight at times in some off road hilly conditions. My concern is running out of battery and needing to pedal this bike to get back to my vehicle, so gearing needs to be low for this situation. Other concern is using a large rear cog say 46T and not having good chain line. I'm thinking that my solution (although expensive) would be to use Rohloff IGH 14 speed? Any ideas ? BTW I don't care too much about top end speed in my situation
                thanks
                You want the low gears whether pedaling or not - it's not a good idea to run low rpms's at high powers, really hard on just about everything from controller and motor internals to the hub... frankly if it's too high to pedal without power it's likely too high for what you are talking about

                I'd see how your chain line is with your derailleur - it's often very good on fat tire bikes... mine with even just the 130bcd bafang adapter is plenty good and the eclipse rings have so much offset I have to shim them quite a bit further out

                I'm presently running a 11-51t cassette with a 42t ring and it will climb anything I got the juevos to climb easily, shifts beautifully through the entire range, and I still have 20mph at leisurely cadence and 25mph at a higher pace

                If you have the money for a rohloff they are very sweet. Better sit down - doing a conversion is likely a couple of thousand dollars. They are silly nice and worth it though. I can't afford one but have ridden them a few times and really like them. Very nice since you can down shift while sitting still at the bottom of a steep grade, not something a derailleur can do...

                Comment


                • McQ
                  McQ commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Well this is very encouraging , no idea I could get that kind of ratio in gearing to work . And yes I am totally on board to use low gears to reduce force and wear. Considering I have SRAM XO 10 speed now, any idea if the 51T cog will require Der. upgrade ? This of course would be a fraction of the cost vs Rohloff. I didn't think I would ever consider spending near $2k on a hub/rear wheel but the mechanical engineering appeal and functionality of the Rohloff is intoxicating me. Its like a work of art in my eyes

                • AZguy
                  AZguy commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I don't know about the X0 but would guess as long as it's a long cage it should be able to handle at least 46t which would suffice - I ran with that until I found the 51t. I'm running a M8000 (11sp) and it is rated for 46t but had no issue taking the 51t. The adjustment for the guide pulley distance from the cog still had a couple of turns left.

                  Worst case you might need a hanger extender but I suspect for 46t it wouldn't be necessary

                  Strongly suggest checking out sunrace for the cassette. They have all steel cog units that are very popular with the electric bike crowd and are excellent product at somewhat less cost than the shimanos or srams.

                  I agree with everything you say about the rohloff's - they are works of engineering beauty and you don't have to worry about taking a hit on the derailleur although I don't worry about that really. I've bent the hangers but no big deal and if I were to break a derailleur I always carry a chain breaker and master link so could just limp home in one gear worst case... almost 10Kmiles now and it just hasn't happened... regardless the rohloff's are worth the money - they actually hold really good value on the used market - almost impossible to find those. The bring plenty of advantages - downsides are they are very heavy and with some derailleurs (like mine ;-} ) wider ranges are possible... if I recall 11-46t is about the same as the rohloff range

                #12
                We have a barely used Shimano Alfine-8 (SG-S501) mounted in a 29'er wheel hanging around the shop. It was built for a bike that never got used. I've been wondering if this hub is up to my off road riding on a long travel mountain bike. Yes, I've read lots of reports about it, but most of them have been for recreational use applications. My Santa Cruz Nomad has a 26" rear, so I'd have to relace. I'd rather not waste my time or money on another rim and spokes for a lost cause. It's not that I've been having any real issue with the 9-speed, 11-50 rear on my current setup, but that shifting when you want and derailleur removal would be nice. I'm a little worried about the unsprung weight of a rear wheel combo like this, as my suspension quality is paramount to me. Again, not seeing a lot of what I'd call real mountain biking application for this hub for durability.

                Comment


                • McQ
                  McQ commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Is there any particular model # for the SunRace cassette that others are using with success with SRAM Der? I have always used the lightest components for non ebike builds , but it sounds like steel vs alloy for E Bike use is the way to go?

                #13
                SRAM, shimano all use the same gear spacing on 10sp

                Just make sure it's one that's all steel cog

                There are a few - this is just one example (check the spec sheet for which ones are all steel cogs): https://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csms2

                Comment


                • McQ
                  McQ commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Perfect , Thanks
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