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PAS, or not to PAS

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    PAS, or not to PAS

    Hello. I am beginning my research into installing the above mentioned sensors. I have not found much on either yet so any assistance that could be provided is greatly appreciated.

    #2
    Here's how I did my brake sensor install. Mount it, plug it in. Magnet needs to be very close to sensor when brake not pulled. Get your lever reach close before you set it up, as readjusting reach will change magnet location.

    http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...ic-brake-lever
    Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

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      #3
      Originally posted by Eastcreek View Post
      Hello. I am beginning my research into installing the above mentioned sensors. I have not found much on either yet so any assistance that could be provided is greatly appreciated.
      Which cadence sensor are you looking for information on?

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        #4
        Thanks. JP

        Louis, Luna calls it "Cyclone Peddle Assist Add on Cadence Sensor". Is this sufficient or should I post a picture?

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          #5
          The Cyclone type is the most common. Not as accurate or nice as torque sensors but I have this type on my DD hub motor bike and it's decent. There are split version that can be added without taking off the crank, but added during the build is quite easy.

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            #6
            Here's a great article from Eric's archives on electric bike.
            Comparing cadence with torque type.
            https://www.electricbike.com/torque-sensors/

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              #7
              Good article on torque sensors with pictures. I guess what I need at this point is a similar write-up on cadence sensors along with some detailed pics on installation. Is this out there somewhere?

              Comment


                #8
                It's just a google away... Simply do a search. It's ALL there. All I did was entered torque sensor in google and hit enter. I'm not trying to me sarcastic. But it's self service is really easy, so much has been published. Building is a ;earning process. Make Google your best friend. Then hit the forums to clear up any questions you've formulated after learning the basics. http://bfy.tw/7F1IAfter the search and with the links found, be sure to look at the image tab and the video tab. It pays to look down the list.


                All the best!

                Louis

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                  #9
                  Seems my "google" search engine doesn't work very well despite Startpage's claim to utilize Google. (I prefer to use Startpage since they don't trac my searches, ...not that I have anything to hide mind you!) Every site is only showing a speed display device of some sort and not the actual sensing device installed. Even the link you provided doesn't seem to be valid on my end. Still wondering around in the dark wondering if anyone has done a good write up on Luna's cadence sensors.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Try this phrase and look at images.

                    ebike pas devices

                    I could give a rat's .... what google does. It's a superior search. I tried Startpage and it got NONE of the images that google got and it says "enhanced by Google" to funny...
                    Do yourself a favor. Use the search that will get what you want and need.

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                      #11
                      Okay, (...I actually fared better using Startpage!) I think I have decided against using the sensor I bought when I purchased the Cyclone since I purchased a throttle at the same time. Here's why....

                      http://www.ebikeschool.com/pedal-ass...and-throttles/ Pedal assist: trouble in paradise

                      Many people, including yours truly, find pedal assist systems frustrating and annoying. I don’t use my ebike for exercise. I have running shoes for that. When I’m on my ebike it’s because I have somewhere I’ve got to be. I’m heading to work, making a delivery, running an errand or doing something that means I’ve got to be moving. That’s not the time that I want to worry about pretending to pedal in order to trick my bike into working for me. I want a simple, responsive and fool-proof system that is going to power my bike exactly when and how much I want, and that’s what a hand throttle is for.
                      Often times pedal assist systems fail to operate smoothly, resulting in quick, jerking movements. If you just want to start rolling slowly, you can easily control your acceleration with a hand throttle. But if you try to use pedal assist, you wind up with a few seconds of delay from the time you start pedaling, then a jolt as the motor kicks in abruptly. Not ideal under any circumstances.
                      So if you feel like you want to get some exercise, and you’re afraid an electric bicycle can be counterproductive to that goal, a pedal assist system is likely a good choice for you. If you want to use your ebike like a motorcycle for some thrill-riding fun or utilitarian transportation, a hand throttle will make your life much easier.
                      Note: while a compromise of having a hand throttle and a PAS together on a single electric bicycle may initially seem nice, please allow me to nip that idea in the bud. There certainly do exist ebikes like this, but I’m not a fan. The problem is that when you want to pedal a short distance, such as needing to scoot up or over at a red light, or maneuvering your electric bicycle while walking it through a door or gate, operating the pedals for a turn or two can cause the ebike to suddenly accelerate when you aren’t expecting it. Premature acceleration isn’t fun for you or anyone around you.

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                        #12
                        Yup, look hard and long enough an we can find the opinion supporting our own. I like Micah and his blog. He's a bright engineer. I'm happy ou found the fit for your build.

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                          #13
                          I am also wondering about the pedal assist for the cyclone set-up I am thinking about building. I currently have the bbshd mounted on a hybrid trek, using the 9 stage pas dashboard. I love it. Absolutely love it. Setting at 3 typically, 4 on a hot day, so I don't arrive at my destination soaked in sweat (this is Florida), it gives me just enough boost to be actually riding a bicycle but feeling like superman. And again, I don't arrive at school unacceptably soaked in sweat. I will use the throttle to pull away from stops, get ahead of traffic, etc.

                          I would love to get the same control from the cyclone, which I plan to put on a curb-jumper, but can find no help about the add-on pas. I would be the guy learning the hard way (burned out stuff?) about wiring, programming, etc.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Will ride View Post
                            I am also wondering about the pedal assist for the cyclone set-up I am thinking about building. I currently have the bbshd mounted on a hybrid trek, using the 9 stage pas dashboard. I love it. Absolutely love it. Setting at 3 typically, 4 on a hot day, so I don't arrive at my destination soaked in sweat (this is Florida), it gives me just enough boost to be actually riding a bicycle but feeling like superman. And again, I don't arrive at school unacceptably soaked in sweat. I will use the throttle to pull away from stops, get ahead of traffic, etc.

                            I would love to get the same control from the cyclone, which I plan to put on a curb-jumper, but can find no help about the add-on pas. I would be the guy learning the hard way (burned out stuff?) about wiring, programming, etc.
                            This is probably way too late to be of much help but I did install the Luna cadence sensor on a Cyclone 3kw with the stock 40A controller. I did have to trim/shim the sensor apparatus to fit properly on the Motobecane I'm using it on but otherwise it was "plug and play".

                            The "3 speed option" or "3 levels of assist" seemed to make little difference so I immediately discarded the SPDT switch I had rigged to use it. (no switch = middle setting) Likewise I removed the PAS arming switch I installed because since I use PAS so seldom it's just one more thing to go wrong. (just plug the PAS arming wire connectors together and the PAS is armed and the throttle disarmed)

                            The main problem is the huge lag time with this system; on the open road it's tolerable but in traffic or on trails it's "exciting" at the very least and downright dangerous at the worst. Not so much that after kicking in it ramps up quickly but when stopping the pedaling the power stays full on for maybe a second which is a lot of distance at speed.

                            The other fun quirk with the system is the sensor is bidirectional; it'll activate the motor regardless of which direction your pedaling turns the crank. Kinda fun to cruise past somebody whilst pedaling backwards!

                            Comment


                            • ykick
                              ykick commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Thanks for confirming some of what I've been told about the ergonomics of Cyclone PAS. Especially the part about bi-directional operation. I'm accustomed to BBSXX which immediately cuts power when any slight backpedal is detected.

                            #15
                            Cadence is used by people who use the practice and method of spinning. In other words it measures the revolutions of your pedals per minute. For example, it has been stated a healthy cadence for your knees is between 70-90 RPM or revolutions per min. It lets people on a regular bike or trike know when to shift gears to keep the pressure off their knees. My knees are original equipment and at my age I like keeping my original parts as long as possible.

                            A torque sensor is measuring wattage or output of the rider relative to the pressure they putting on the pedal. This is probably a bad example but maybe you have heard of Power Taps which measure wattage or the power output that a person puts out on a bicycle. This is more what a Masher does. A Masher is a person that may push very hard on their pedals to gain speed quickly or stand up to get power to go up hill by using their legs instead of gears.

                            Currently I use Cadence and I will most likely continue to do so even though I will be installing a Thun Torque Sensor in my CA-DP3 display in my new build for my Pedelec Recumbent Trike. By the way it will have both pedal assist and a throttle. Once again I use Cadence so I know when I will need to shift gears. Once I hit my regular Cadence lets say its 75, I shift to the next gear. If my cadence happens to slow down to like 65 or 70 its a good sign I need to down shift. I already have a wireless Cadence sensor on my Trike.

                            Just so you understand why Cadence might be valuable to you I am going to share this. If you are out to just get on a Bike or Trike and ride it until the battery is exhausted without really pedaling then you should ignore what I am going to type. Your battery is only going to last so long and you are going to give up any benefit you might get of Bicycling. If you go out and turn down your Pedal Assistance to a minimum that you really need, or only use it when its necessary, then you will not only reap the health benefits of Bicycling, but you will extend your Bicycle Riding Distance and Time because your Battery will last much longer since you will not be depleting it as fast. You will also be protecting your knees by using Cadence.

                            I hope this was helpful to some of you.

                            Jason
                            Last edited by ComicDom1; 09-30-2017, 05:39 PM.

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                            • commuter ebikes
                              commuter ebikes commented
                              Editing a comment
                              I always use as tall of a gear as possible and pedal in order to contribute as much human power as possible. Once I get past 90 RPM, however, I find it to be turbulent and unsustainable.
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