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  • Eastcreek
    started a topic PAS, or not to PAS

    PAS, or not to PAS

    Hello. I am beginning my research into installing the above mentioned sensors. I have not found much on either yet so any assistance that could be provided is greatly appreciated.

  • Mrbobo
    replied
    Can I hook-up cyclone 3000 without this pas sensors I hope so, plan on using detailer as my pedaling cadence along with my feet. But I already have rear hub motor on bike I plan to have dual sepoparate systems. I only use the pas on that when I'm on long trks& know I got no stop&go traffic. Some of these pas sound dangerous. Imagine waiting at lightbumping ur crank accidentally; oops just ran a red& got smashed by cars crossing on green.

    Leave a comment:


  • commuter ebikes
    commented on 's reply
    I don't think you will have to worry about a firmware update. Hopefully, you can make the CA connectors work for ya. I had to change the 4-pin e-brake JST to a 2-pin. I won't use a 4-pin connector to connect 2 wires.

  • ComicDom1
    replied
    Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post

    I bought four of these in 2015 and 2016. I am running what they came with: "Ver3 Pr1m6" (I have never done a firmware update).

    I heard that a firmware update after my "Ver3 Pr1m6" gives you motor power without any delay (when you first turn it on, starting your ride). There is a list of bugs and improvements in the link below, but I neither experienced any of these problems nor desire any of the improvements.

    Here is the link to the software for performing firmware updates: http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cy...-setup-utility. The firmware links immediately follow that section. It looks like the most current firmware update is the "stable V3.03 code", released December 2016.

    In my case, it might be an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" situation. It does everything I need it to do with no problems in over 5000 miles.
    I appreciate it. I need to wait until my Cycle Analyst arrives and I put everything together. Chances are I will have updated firmware in it since I just bought it this week.

    Jason

    Leave a comment:


  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    Originally posted by ComicDom1 View Post
    ...By the way how old is your Cycle Analyst V3. I noticed in Grin news last year sometime they release an update 3.1 for it...
    I bought four of these in 2015 and 2016. I am running what they came with: "Ver3 Pr1m6" (I have never done a firmware update).

    I heard that a firmware update after my "Ver3 Pr1m6" gives you motor power without any delay (when you first turn it on, starting your ride). There is a list of bugs and improvements in the link below, but I neither experienced any of these problems nor desire any of the improvements.

    Here is the link to the software for performing firmware updates: http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cy...-setup-utility. The firmware links immediately follow that section. It looks like the most current firmware update is the "stable V3.03 code", released December 2016.

    In my case, it might be an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" situation. It does everything I need it to do with no problems in over 5000 miles.
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 09-30-2017, 10:17 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ComicDom1
    replied
    Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post

    I have a Cycle Analyst V3 on my bike. With no PAS or any other sensors in the vicinity of the crankset, I am unable to take advantage of this feature.

    I am left to guess both my cadence and human power on this throttle only system.
    Thats the advantage of have a Cycle Analyst V3. You can always add a PAS sensor or torque sensor if your heart desires it.

    Jason

    Leave a comment:


  • ComicDom1
    replied
    I just got the information below from the Grin Technology website. Maybe it depends on the version of the Thun Torque Sensor you buy and install. This one refers to the X-Cell RT. Since I just ordered one I really need to check and see if I ordered the correct one. I will have to check the other Thun Torque Sensor Descriptions to be sure.

    Update: I just checked and I have the Thun X-Cell RT Torque Sensor on order which matches the description I listed below.

    This is my first build and I am trying to make sure I get all the correct parts the first time for my upcoming build and do not make any ordering errors. I think you know how it is. Even though you have done a lot of research and studied the material, you still end up with mistakes.


    By the way how old is your Cycle Analyst V3. I noticed in Grin news last year sometime they release an update 3.1 for it.

    http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-b...thun-120k.html

    Thun X-CELL RT Torque Sensor, 120K/116mm Spindle, with connector cable to V3 CA

    The THUN sensor has an 8-pole cadence sensor and measures the actual torque across the spindle. It gives the most accurate human power statistics but it only senses the left pedal force, so there can be some delay in pedalec assistance if you start from a standstill pushing on the right crank.

    Jason
    Last edited by ComicDom1; 09-30-2017, 09:21 PM. Reason: To update my order information.

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  • commuter ebikes
    commented on 's reply
    I always use as tall of a gear as possible and pedal in order to contribute as much human power as possible. Once I get past 90 RPM, however, I find it to be turbulent and unsustainable.

  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    Originally posted by ComicDom1 View Post
    Just FYI, I just was reading the manual on the Cycle Analyst V3 and it shows that the 3rd screen shows both human power in watts and also cadence. I am not clear yet if a person needs both the Torque sensing bottom bracket and PAS sensor to do this.

    Jason
    I have a Cycle Analyst V3 on my bike. With no PAS or any other sensors in the vicinity of the crankset, I am unable to take advantage of this feature.

    I am left to guess both my cadence and human power on this throttle only system.
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 09-30-2017, 08:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ComicDom1
    replied
    Just FYI, I just was reading the manual on the Cycle Analyst V3 and it shows that the 3rd screen shows both human power in watts and also cadence. I am not clear yet if a person needs both the Torque sensing bottom bracket and PAS sensor to do this.

    Jason

    Leave a comment:


  • ComicDom1
    replied
    Cadence is used by people who use the practice and method of spinning. In other words it measures the revolutions of your pedals per minute. For example, it has been stated a healthy cadence for your knees is between 70-90 RPM or revolutions per min. It lets people on a regular bike or trike know when to shift gears to keep the pressure off their knees. My knees are original equipment and at my age I like keeping my original parts as long as possible.

    A torque sensor is measuring wattage or output of the rider relative to the pressure they putting on the pedal. This is probably a bad example but maybe you have heard of Power Taps which measure wattage or the power output that a person puts out on a bicycle. This is more what a Masher does. A Masher is a person that may push very hard on their pedals to gain speed quickly or stand up to get power to go up hill by using their legs instead of gears.

    Currently I use Cadence and I will most likely continue to do so even though I will be installing a Thun Torque Sensor in my CA-DP3 display in my new build for my Pedelec Recumbent Trike. By the way it will have both pedal assist and a throttle. Once again I use Cadence so I know when I will need to shift gears. Once I hit my regular Cadence lets say its 75, I shift to the next gear. If my cadence happens to slow down to like 65 or 70 its a good sign I need to down shift. I already have a wireless Cadence sensor on my Trike.

    Just so you understand why Cadence might be valuable to you I am going to share this. If you are out to just get on a Bike or Trike and ride it until the battery is exhausted without really pedaling then you should ignore what I am going to type. Your battery is only going to last so long and you are going to give up any benefit you might get of Bicycling. If you go out and turn down your Pedal Assistance to a minimum that you really need, or only use it when its necessary, then you will not only reap the health benefits of Bicycling, but you will extend your Bicycle Riding Distance and Time because your Battery will last much longer since you will not be depleting it as fast. You will also be protecting your knees by using Cadence.

    I hope this was helpful to some of you.

    Jason
    Last edited by ComicDom1; 09-30-2017, 04:39 PM.

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  • ykick
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for confirming some of what I've been told about the ergonomics of Cyclone PAS. Especially the part about bi-directional operation. I'm accustomed to BBSXX which immediately cuts power when any slight backpedal is detected.

  • pliebenberg
    replied
    Originally posted by Will ride View Post
    I am also wondering about the pedal assist for the cyclone set-up I am thinking about building. I currently have the bbshd mounted on a hybrid trek, using the 9 stage pas dashboard. I love it. Absolutely love it. Setting at 3 typically, 4 on a hot day, so I don't arrive at my destination soaked in sweat (this is Florida), it gives me just enough boost to be actually riding a bicycle but feeling like superman. And again, I don't arrive at school unacceptably soaked in sweat. I will use the throttle to pull away from stops, get ahead of traffic, etc.

    I would love to get the same control from the cyclone, which I plan to put on a curb-jumper, but can find no help about the add-on pas. I would be the guy learning the hard way (burned out stuff?) about wiring, programming, etc.
    This is probably way too late to be of much help but I did install the Luna cadence sensor on a Cyclone 3kw with the stock 40A controller. I did have to trim/shim the sensor apparatus to fit properly on the Motobecane I'm using it on but otherwise it was "plug and play".

    The "3 speed option" or "3 levels of assist" seemed to make little difference so I immediately discarded the SPDT switch I had rigged to use it. (no switch = middle setting) Likewise I removed the PAS arming switch I installed because since I use PAS so seldom it's just one more thing to go wrong. (just plug the PAS arming wire connectors together and the PAS is armed and the throttle disarmed)

    The main problem is the huge lag time with this system; on the open road it's tolerable but in traffic or on trails it's "exciting" at the very least and downright dangerous at the worst. Not so much that after kicking in it ramps up quickly but when stopping the pedaling the power stays full on for maybe a second which is a lot of distance at speed.

    The other fun quirk with the system is the sensor is bidirectional; it'll activate the motor regardless of which direction your pedaling turns the crank. Kinda fun to cruise past somebody whilst pedaling backwards!

    Leave a comment:


  • Will ride
    replied
    I am also wondering about the pedal assist for the cyclone set-up I am thinking about building. I currently have the bbshd mounted on a hybrid trek, using the 9 stage pas dashboard. I love it. Absolutely love it. Setting at 3 typically, 4 on a hot day, so I don't arrive at my destination soaked in sweat (this is Florida), it gives me just enough boost to be actually riding a bicycle but feeling like superman. And again, I don't arrive at school unacceptably soaked in sweat. I will use the throttle to pull away from stops, get ahead of traffic, etc.

    I would love to get the same control from the cyclone, which I plan to put on a curb-jumper, but can find no help about the add-on pas. I would be the guy learning the hard way (burned out stuff?) about wiring, programming, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Louis
    replied
    Yup, look hard and long enough an we can find the opinion supporting our own. I like Micah and his blog. He's a bright engineer. I'm happy ou found the fit for your build.

    Leave a comment:

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