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Bakfiets earns its flames!

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  • 73Eldo
    commented on 's reply
    Paddle boats often seem to suffer from no gearing so it may take some testing to figure out how to gear a cyclone but it does seem like a fun idea.

  • tklop
    I think I wanna find an old (but not yet leaky) paddle-wheel boat--and drop a 4KW Cyclone into it... Doesn't that just sound like fun? Ditch the freewheels--rig the "reverse" switch--and heck yeah! Super-maneuverable--no longer exhausting--thus even more fun than ever little e-paddle-boat...

    Wait... How come Luna doesn't offer one yet?

    Oh, well... If the madness ever manifests--you'll all be the first to know!

    All the best, fellow mad inventor people!

    Take care


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  • tklop
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks, calfee20

  • calfee20
    commented on 's reply
    Good to hear from you again.

  • tklop
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks, Jose!

    Went back out...

    Picked up the kids from school, strapped one of their bikes to the side...


    Sure footed...

    Spent the afternoon with the ex and my kids--had dinner too. Was nice...

    Then bakfietsed my way back home again. All in all, it was about 17 kilometers--mostly on unsalted bike-paths.

    Refrozen wheel-snatching ruts? No problem.

    Five inches of fresh snow? No problem.

    Easy steady pace, firm grip on the bars, no problem.

    All three motors use Cyclone controllers--so the programming is super-duper easy--and all three were set to the same "percentage-of-total" speed-limit... I can't remember what I had the "Speed Limit" set to--but it turns out to be just about perfect for the snowy surfaces (I'm guessing it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 13 to 15 kph or so).

    I love, love, love, love, LOVE this machine!
    Last edited by tklop; 02-08-2021, 02:13 PM.

  • DaHose
    Braving a Norway winter day on a Bakfiets. Gotta admire your commitment!


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  • tklop
    Winter storm. Snow. Ice. 3WD bakfiets--for the win.

    The "Speed Limit" setting is ideal for snow and ice (just as it was for off-road on marginal surfaces). I can even combine it with cruise-control, and just roll right through everything.

    If I had any friends, they could film me in action--but sorry. No pics, no vids--just my word.

    My bakfiets just got another legit reason to be the number one favorite car I've ever owned.

    All the best,


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  • tklop
    commented on 's reply
    Regarding the Batavus Yakima I'd previously converted to a front-wheel geared-hub motor:

    When initially attempting that conversion, I'd wanted to do a mid-drive.

    Unfortunately (at the time) I mangled the bottom-bracket bearing-cups. Since then, I've learned (and adapted) a super-easy way to keep that from happening.

    That wasn't all though--I also managed to strip out the internal-threading on the right-side crank-arm, so the puller couldn't get that one off either. Needless to say, things were less than ideal--when I pieced it together with the front-wheel conversion--back then. But time was of the essence--and so I just did my best--and got the bike to her.

    But since that time, pretty much everything that moves finished wearing out (except the front-wheel hub motor).

    So--yeah... Now it's here...

    And there was that matter of the bottom-bracket removal. No matter what my plans, the old one was effin' toast--and had to be replaced regardless.

    But to get that out--that stripped-out crank-arm still had to come off.

    The whole time this bike was at my ex's I was trying to contemplate how the heck I was going to get it apart--but after it was in front of me, it didn't take too long to form a plan.

    I used a drill to basically perforate and weaken the crank-arm, by removing metal from the bottom beginning from the corner where the the square-drive axle engaged, and on through to the outside. A few holes were drilled, a couple angles.

    Next, I used an electric hammer-drill/roto-hammer and a chisel-bit, to buzz my way through the metal. Though pretty loud, the tool sliced thru the aluminum like butter. Only took a second or so, and the crank-arm was loose.

    From there, it was just a matter of hammering-out the bad bottom-bracket, and cutting out the remaining plastic shell-remnants.

    Once that was done, it was apparent the TSDZ2 wouldn't fit as-is. The cables are routed over a channelled plate which is mounted to the bottom of the bottom-bracket, and the assembly is just too thick to fit. I'm not sure if I want to redo and reroute the shifter and and brake cables, when the bike has a decent motor on it already.

    The easy option will just be to replace the bottom-bracket bearing, get new cranks, sprockets, rear-cassette and chain, along with the cosmetic bits--and it'll be as good as new.

    I think that's what I'll do with it--but again. No rush. So there might not be an update on this particular project-bike for awhile.
    Last edited by tklop; 10-02-2020, 11:04 AM.

  • tklop
    commented on 's reply

    A couple-things I've discovered with my own AWD system have actually solved some of others' common issues:

    Many people who've tried to use two identical motors front and rear run into situations where the two systems compete (front pulls, then rear pushes, then front pulls). Because the front-wheel is the one that turns left and right, it'll always be "wandering" slightly in its path. Essentially, this means the front-wheel is actually taking a slightly longer (sort-of wobbly) path, when compared to the rear. If using two identical motors, this can result in a mildly-annoying wrestling-match as the motors take turns doing the majority of the work.

    Though my project has three wheels, not two--the same exact situation would apply. But my experience has shown that using two completely different types of motors--(direct-drive for the front-wheels, mid-motor for the rear), eliminates that issue. With each system (front and rear) set to slightly unload the other--the effect is steady, smooth, and stable.

    Of course my bakfiets' heavy-end is the front--and in that system, there's two front-motors----not just one, like a regular bicycle would have. So for a two-wheeler, the proportions of power-balance between front and rear systems would need to be set up differently than on the bakfiets--for the sake of stability and control.

    I've considered experimenting with putting one of my Suring geared-hub motors (Sondors type systems) into the front-wheel of my TSDZ2-powered city-bike, just to see how that goes--but for a street-bike, unless deliciously hard-acceleration is needed, I'm not so convinced it'll be that much of an advantage. Mostly, I expect it'd amount to just an extra battery-drain.

    But I am tempted to do a super-nasty off-road mountain-bike type conversion at some point--and I'm intrigued to play with this idea further--and make it into a 2WD monster.

    I've been following your Cannondale project, Jose--and it's pretty sweet...

    I'm considering rescuing a discarded mountain-bike from Big Trash Day at some point, to see what I can come up with. Don't know if I'll luck out or not--but I'd like to find a steel mtn/hybrid frame (preferably non-suspension), with fittings for disc-brakes. That'd be a good starting-point.

    I'd like to do a Cyclone mid-drive--for the industrial-grade endurance, and the delicious raw power--but with another of those Suring DD wheel-hub motors fitted into its front-wheel. I'd begin by optimizing the Cyclone Mid-Drive's settings, then adjust the Suring motor's Cyclone controller for maximum compatibility.

    I'd likely do the same as with my bakfiets--regarding PAS, as well as the splitting and combining of the throttles' signal-legs, Cruise-Control, etc. Shoot--maybe I'll even build another little waterproof switch-console!

    Electronic-braking on the front-wheel is also a plus.

    I don't know, DaHose ... I know your Cannondale is pretty-much perfected...

    But what if you could set up a 2nd (alternate) DD powered front-wheel, all wired up--ready to drop into place? A second Quick-Disconnect plug on the battery--to feed the second controller... Quick-Disconnects for the controller-connections would be simple too: Power Switch, Throttle, PAS and Cruise and Low Brake--all share common (-) Neg/Ground--and that's already supplied by your battery-connection. Throttle and PAS share a common (+) 5VDC. One controller's Low Brake Signal can supply the "stop" signal to both controllers.

    This means you don't need to splice all the wires--only the non-redundant ones. Your sensors and controls only need to be "fed" their (+)5VDC by one controller (your mid-drive controller). It is only their "signal" legs which need to be shared. So, the only wires which will need to go to the 2nd-controller, will be the "Signal" (green) legs from both PAS and Throttle, the (system-voltage) (+) for your Power Switch, and the Low-Brake Signal-leg (for Cyclone kits it's the grey one--I think). That's only four total control-wires. Shoot--those four wires could even be combined into a single QD connector--if so desired.

    It seems to me it all could be pretty simply and cleanly set up. If it's a "configuration change"--there's no need for all my extra switches; no need for a second-throttle--none of that--if you'd intend to just leave them linked. The controls you've already got can operate both systems just fine.

    I also wonder: Would it be possible (or practical) to just set up an entire complete second fork, with the DD wheel installed, suspension tuned and all ready to go? Maybe even the 2nd controller could be pre-mounted to the alternate fork... I dunno... Maybe a wheel-swap and suspension-tuning is easier than a fork-swap. I'm just dreaming of possibilities over here...

    And besides--I don't need to go around messing up your project! Just saying... You'd still have the Super-Cannondale--you'd just also have a drop-in mod--to unleash the Tree-Climbing Super-Cannondale!

    All the best, Jose!
    Last edited by tklop; 09-21-2020, 01:36 AM.

  • DaHose
    Sweet description on using combined PAS in your application. As always, the joyous experiment continues!


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  • tklop
    Update to the Main Project...

    On the 4KW Cyclone mid-motor, the waterproof-connector burnt a contact, so I hacked the connectors off, and soldered in wire-sections to replace it. This wire now has multiple splices along its length, but ultimately is more reliable than ever.

    I've been enjoying having multiple controls on my switch-panel.

    Most frequently, I use the PAS on/off, next would be the Throttle-Link (either throttle controls both front-and-rear systems when "on"), and the Cruise-Control Set (which only applies to the front-motors).

    What I've found, is that the PAS actually works one heck of a lot better with my 3WD system . Both my Suring direct-drive front-wheel hub-motors are also powered by Cyclone controllers (40A bluetooth-versions, while of course the mid-drive's is the 60A bluetooth version).

    I generally get rolling on the throttles before switching the PAS on. More control--less lurch--preferable.

    And no mistake--for the 4KW mid-drive, the PAS still comes on way too hard--but here's the thing: Those DD front-motors kick in just ahead of the mid-drive, which essentially unloads it--just enough--so while the Cyclone still tries to come on really hard, the end-result is that the previous chain-busting "kick" is transformed into more or less a "shove". In this way, the PAS can even be used from a dead-stop (though not recommended). Okay, sure--multiple motor systems aren't for everybody. But the PAS also acts as another "preset" cruise-control speed--which handily enough (in 3rd--my top gear) comes out to just about 30 kph--a speed which I find to be a nearly ideal traffic-free, smooth, open-road/bike-path commuting-speed--just under the exponentially rising wind-resistance.battery-drain curve, while maintaining plenty of reaction-time...

    I guess I could've just said, "Cyclone Controllers' PAS isn't actually useless anymore--with AWD systems".

    Anyways... I rode that Limit Xalina (post 112) to my ex--and collected her other (nearly busted) e-bike--another of my earlier conversion-bikes--and rode it back home again from my ex's...

    It's the Batavus Yakima which had the Suring front-wheel hub-motor (Sondors type system). All the chains, sprockets, derailleurs--all are grimy and the freewheel doesn't freewheel--and the chain falls off--and yeah... It's still a decent bike, but it's just not so terribly rideable anymore.

    My ex being currently happy with her current assortment of bikes will not be needing this one back any time soon, but I do intend to rebuild it.

    Not sure whether to stick with the front-wheel geared-hub motor that's on it already, and just redo all the other parts--or if I want to do another mid-drive.

    I'm thinking of putting another of those TSDZ2 mid-motors on it--such a simple install, hassle-free, quiet, reliable (in my experience). adequate assist--though not crazy--they're also not as murderous to bike-components as many more-potent mid-drives tend to be (I've only ever bought the 48V 750W [peak] versions--and with the exception of the speed-limit, I've run them all at factory-settings).

    But it's not urgent just yet. I need a workspace. My living room is less than ideal.

    Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine. Oh, yeah--and another thing: Whine!

    More to follow--I'm sure...
    Last edited by tklop; 09-20-2020, 08:41 AM.

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  • tklop
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks, Jose!

  • DaHose
    What a great little find! Another noble ride saved from a tragic end. Well done!


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  • tklop
    commented on 's reply
    Though not the fanciest, I consider this to be actually the best bicycle (two-wheeler) conversion I've done so far.

    Its simplicity, along with its strong, stiff, and solidly welded steel frame made it (in my opinion) an ideal conversion candidate.

    And--well--it turned out to be pretty much exactly that. Ideal. The kit fit like a glove.

    I'd planned to do this with the "freebie bike" anyway. Having a smaller-size frame, this rusty little gem was going to be my "loaner e-bike"... but it wasn't an urgent project--just one of those "whenever I get around to it" things... That is--until I discovered the cracks on the Mio!

    It's lucky I had it pretty much waiting-in-the-wings. Now it's my ex's Mio Replacement!

    And even though I really do love the way the bike turned out, I don't really have to be jealous. I can visit it pretty much whenever I like!
    Last edited by tklop; 09-19-2020, 09:03 AM.

  • tklop
    Latest conversion:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG-20200918-WA0006.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	1.34 MB ID:	114204 Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG-20200919-WA0000.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	1.50 MB ID:	114205

    The donor-bike was literally free. Thrown away.

    I live in a big apartment building. Every so often a huge dumpster is placed outside, and everybody's "too big to fit in the garbage can" stuff gets heaved in.

    Somebody rolled this bike up to the pile of crap (old appliances, and several other completely mangled bikes)... Yes--I said "rolled this bike"... With the key still in the lock.

    So, I just made my way downstairs, and rolled the bike back up to my apartment.

    Now--the bike had no seat, a flat front-tire, no lights.

    The bike has a million dings and nicks in the paint, and each is rusty. It's quite possible it has had a swim in one of The Netherlands' many canals and/or ditches.

    The story was clear: The bike's chain had fallen off, and jammed. The bike had been parked. Pieces had been picked off the bike (its seat). Perhaps for another of the owner's bikes--or perhaps while sitting outside someplace--with its busted chain--either way. After the seat was gone, and the tires went flat, well... Remember what I said about Dutch bike owners? Literally there's no "user maintenance" done in most cases. And this was an old bike... A shed-queen. And somebody decided it was time to "clean up"...

    Out there on Big Garbage Day, there were three others--a racing-bike frame, a mountain-bike frame, and a really beat-up omafiets with potato-chipped wheels. I just let the metals-guy haul them away... I cannot save all the orphaned bikes.

    Amazing though, what an oil-moistened rag can do--for such cosmetic issues. Ask me? I say she's turned out looking damn good.

    It's a "Limit" brand bicycle, the model is "Xalina". The bicycle was manufactured for Halfords--and made right here, in The Netherlands.

    I replaced the front tire and tube. New inner-tube obviously, but the outer tire was one of my old bakfiets rear-wheel tires.

    I popped my old bakfiets seat (along with quick-adjusting nut, and seatpost) on.

    I always prefer brake-lights when possible, and I still maintain the easiest way to arrange them is via a wheel-hub generator in the front-wheel. Busch & Muller make some that sense the pulse-rate of your wheel-dynamo, and when that pulse-rate drops, it activates a brighter pulsing brake-light effect--for those following you. Fantastic. Works with our without your e-bike battery, works anytime your bike is moving. The lights remain illuminated for a few-minutes too after stopping, for stoplights and the like, and so you can see your way through your back garden. Wheel-hub dynamos are reliable, and believe-it-or-not, less energy-consumptive. The difference is admittedly marginal, but it's measurable. Monitoring the wattage-meter on two otherwise identical e-bikes, you can compare the wattage-increase due to resistance of the dynamo generating the 6VAC signal, versus the wattage-increase than you get using the same exact headlamp--powered by the system's 6VDC light-circuit. The dynamo is measurably more energy-efficient.

    But this bike had no front-wheel hub-dynamo--so that's not an option (for now). Furthermore, none of the TSDZ2 conversions I've done have used e-bike brake-handles, so my easy-peasy brake-light relay-mod won't work either. So, for the sake of simplicity it has no brake-lights (just like 99.99% of other Dutch bikes).

    To keep it simple, I just bought and installed an e-bike headlight (6vdc), wiring it into the TSDZ2's light-circuit.

    And for the rear-light, I discovered something handy: First--let me just say I'm not a fan of throw-away batteries. They're like nasty little pollution-pills, wrapped in excess packaging. Plus, throw-away batteries are disappointment postponed. Replace them and replace them--you'll still wind up in the end with another damn dead battery. Not much to like about them--if you ask me.

    So--encountering taillights with throw-away batteries in them (my own bikes, my kids' bikes, my ex's, etc), I typically remove the battery-powered lights, and try to replace them with dynamo-lights. Over the years, I've collected a decent box-full---and mind you, I've recycled all their old dead batteries--no worries.

    One of them, had indications (vestiges from another model-line more than likely) that it might've been manufactured in other versions--perhaps a generator-version... So, I just tested it out with the TSDZ2's light-circuit--and lo-and-behold, it worked. No issues whatsoever. Soldered the wires in--bolted it on--done deal.

    The L-rack/baker's rack on the front is new too, and I replaced the ring-lock with an Axa Defender, with the plug-in chain. Here in The Netherlands, it's simple: You don't have to have the best bike-lock in the world--you just have to make sure your bike is locked up better than the one next to it.

    I made the full-bike "finished" pic (above) last night.

    But then--realized I just had to rig up a chain-guard. Just had to.

    So I did. I cut an old bakfiets chain-guard to fit, and rolled the ragged-edges I'd made under. I actually think it turned out pretty nice. (second pic is before I got the oily-rag onto the chain-guard, and fine-tuned the fit)

    Backstory and motivation:

    The Giant Mio (that I'd previously converted) well, I discovered to my dismay that it has some cracks in the chainstays. Both sides, almost all the way through, just at the forward-edge of the kickstand mounting-pad, radiating upward from below (only a tiny bit of metal left).

    Needless to say, I'd call that unsafe to ride.

    I'd bought that bike new with my ex--and the frame should have a lifetime guarantee--and my ex and I will just have to see how that plays out.

    But clearly--urgent action was required...

    So--that's the backstory--and that's where the kit came from. It's not new--it's the one from the Mio. And now it's on the Limit Xalina.

    "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle". All three at play, multiple times over... Do I win a prize?

    All the best, everyone,

    Last edited by tklop; 09-19-2020, 10:47 PM.

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