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Bakfiets earns its flames!

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    More testing needed to get the power-levels where I want them, in the controllers' various modes...

    Balance and handling is further improved--as I expected them to be.

    The DD motors are significantly heavier than the geared-hub motors were. With my machine, additional weight in the box, mounted as low to the ground as possible, always improves stability--so naturally the DD motors do too.

    The battery just got heavier too (with now 1/3 more cells in it). The battery sits inside the box, on the floor--directly over the axle-line, and centered left-to-right. Again--extra weight, mounted low--just as with the DD's extra weight help here too.

    As far as balancing out the throttle-applications and controls, it's going to take some trial-and-error.

    Before, I had two systems--but with entirely different types of controllers.

    Now that they've all got YY (Cyclone) controllers, it allows me that console (for simple controls)--already proving to be one of my favorite "self-developed" ideas (pats self on back again).

    I'll obviously need to mirror both front-motors' controllers' settings, whatever I end up choosing. I may try to copy the settings I'd chosen for the 4KW Cyclone Mid-drive--and see if the DD motors cooperate decently enough that way. But I'm not too optimistic that'll be enough. Any of the properties or settings that are speed or RPM-dependent might match in one of my three gears, but not all three. I'm guessing that features like the "Adjust Acceleration-Curve" --seem likely to need separate settings to get them matched up--between front and rear systems. Because I'm going to have to wait a bit for my temperature-meter to arrive (from Uncle Ali--it'll be awhile), I may just make the front-motors' settings super-duper soft--to keep them working gently until I get the meter, and can establish some baseline temp-parameters.

    I was thinking about overheating too... A car will overheat if you drive it with WOT for extended lengths of time. So will a motorcycle, so will a lot of things... Some systems are designed to run WOT on an endless duty-cycle, like the hybrid-electric motors that drive freight-trains. But not everything.

    Because I learned to ride a bike on leg-power, I always basically rode as fast as I could all the time--as fast as my legs would push me. That meant slower climbing hills, faster going down--slower when it's windy, faster when I'm lucky enough to have that wind at my back--etc. Shifting to electric, my natural tendency is still the same--to ride as fast as I can go. But just like my legs would have me gasping and sweating (esp if there's a hill involved)--I suppose running my body at WOT also leads to overheating... See where I'm going with this?

    If I drive as fast as I can go in a car, it's going to overheat for sure--especially if I keep it floored climbing mountains and whatnot. The same seems to be true for a lot of e-bikes, esp. when we get into higher power-numbers. I like fast--and I like that I can go fast--sure. No reason to lie about it. Fast has its place--for emergencies, for passing, for "demonstration purposes only" maybe too. But perhaps it's wise to have a "paradigm shift" when transitioning from legs to battery: Perhaps it's not realistic to expect to be able to cross continents with a WOT anyway...

    Hmmm... On the other hand, when I get my temp-meter in the mail, if it turns out my motors can indeed go WOT endlessly at top-speed without overheating--well... That'll be different. I'll have to rely on self-control then. Even so, I still will take it easy on the hills!

    For today, I am going to try to wire up my battery-switch. It's a huge marine-grade beast--switching contacts rated for 200A; and up to 1500 "starting" amps (just fine for the capacitor in-rush we all love so well).

    More to follow
    Last edited by tklop; 02-02-2020, 01:26 AM.


    • tklop
      tklop commented
      Editing a comment
      That DC battery-switch is the standard 4-position type (Off / Battery 1 / Batteries 1 + 2 / Battery 2). The knob can be rotated in either direction.

      For now, I've wired it only for "Battery 1".

      I do have multiple batteries--and on rare occasions might even take them all on some grand epic voyage--but that's not what I am using this switch for.

      So--here's what I'm going to do:

      Battery 2's terminal is going to go to a charging-port on the outside of the cargo-box.

      But then--I'm going to swap the "Common" and "Battery 1" terminals on the switch.

      Now--the four positions will be (Off / Battery On / Test / Charge).

      The 1 position will still function the same--but after that, it gets much more cool.

      Because the battery is now using the "Common" terminal, the "1 + 2" position--will enable me to power the bus via the external charging-port. "Ground Test Mode"--if you like. At the same time, this also allows me an external 48V jack (for charging or even discharging--I could plug in an inverter perhaps for some luxury tent-camping--maybe even use the port for solar-panels recharging at those off-grid campsites I plan on one day venturing to).

      Position 2 will isolate the bus--but still allow charging via that external port (meaning the lights, accessories, other items aren't powered). This position too would obviously enable discharge via that same port.

      "Off" still isolates everything.

      But also--it's an external switch (doubling as a kill-switch for safety). No matter which way someone might toggle it, there won't be any issues--because I"m not actually linking multiple batteries with it.

      I've read your experiences, calfee20 with paralelling batteries of the same chemistry and voltage. If I go on some epic journey, I can always give that a try too. (obviously both are self-contained "smart" BMS protected batteries--I think if the voltages are matched--it'd be no issue). If I were to do so, though, I could just swap the switch-terminals--restoring "standard" switch-operation. In thinking about your motor-home type useage, or any other situation where you might want dual-batteries, a simple voltage readout--for each battery--adjacent to the switch--perhaps even direction above the "1 + 2" position--maybe even with an "idiot-label" -- "do not bridge batteries with greater than 0.5 volt difference"--or the like... I dunno... I think I'd want that if regularly using this type of switch for multiple batteries--but for the bakfiets? I don't expect to do that too often--having 114AH in my standard "juice-box". Plugging and unplugging isn't that big a deal--everything is accessible. If I link multiple batteries, I'll obviously have to check them first--and after that, I expect I'd just leave them linked until I'm done with the journey--charging, discharging--same as you described. I know that if I unlink them--they'll need rechecking--so if I do shut down the machine, I'd probably just go ahead and unplug one battery entirely... Plugging and unplugging isn't that big a deal for me... But in a motorhome/trailer type situation--I think I'd like those meters--right by the switch. In such an installation--the idea of the switch it to keep you from having to crawl into closets and plug things in or out.


      More to follow
      Last edited by tklop; 02-03-2020, 04:55 AM.

    • calfee20
      calfee20 commented
      Editing a comment
      Well lately I have been reading about small solar systems for RVs. They all use one of three different kinds of batteries, flooded lead acid, AGM also acid, or your chemistry of Lithium, LiFePO4. I finally decided to go with the LiFePO4. The past few years have made me familiar lithium batteries and lead acid are such a hassle especially if you want to store them for a while.

      The only con about your style of battery size and weight but that doesn't matter for your unique bike or an RV. I won't be doing much until summer except for reading. I'll keep you posted.

    Oh yeah I wanted to mention that ERT uses dual motors on a 2 wheel bike. He has a 50mm on the back and a 45 on the front. He might have had a 3 motor tadpole trike for a while before they wrecked it. He might be able to give you some information if you can get a hold of him.


    • tklop
      tklop commented
      Editing a comment
      Right on! Thanks for the link.

      Re-the weight... The battery is heavy--but at the capacity-level, it's one hell of a lot lighter than lead-acid! And I don't know what it weighs--I might've exaggerated a bit saying it's as heavy as I am... But I don't own a scale--so don't know how much either my battery, or myself--actually weigh. And I'm kind-of a bean-pole type either way--so the battery isn't unreasonable.

      And--if you keep in mind advertised versus real capacity--though I don't know the actual weight of my battery--that's (for comparison's sake) a 150AH model. I'm pretty sure two 24V 150AH lead-acid truck batteries--would outweigh my suitcase battery! :-)


      Enjoy your wintertime off, calfee20
      Last edited by tklop; 02-03-2020, 10:15 AM.

    Finally hooked up the speed-sensor input for my trolley-battery's BMS. Had to measure out a wheel-revolution--came up with 1640mm. Hopefully having this data will allow my BMS to start calculating range and efficiency.

    More to follow on that too.

    I want to lay a strip of rubber (old inner-tube) between my new fenders and the box--for a better seal, and for less chaffing; and I need to install a few more bolts to hold them on nice and firm.

    But I am slowly running out of improvements and refinements.

    I really like this machine! :-)


      Originally posted by tklop View Post
      Finally hooked up the speed-sensor input for my trolley-battery's BMS. Had to measure out a wheel-revolution--came up with 1640mm. Hopefully having this data will allow my BMS to start calculating range and efficiency.

      More to follow on that too.

      I want to lay a strip of rubber (old inner-tube) between my new fenders and the box--for a better seal, and for less chaffing; and I need to install a few more bolts to hold them on nice and firm.

      But I am slowly running out of improvements and refinements.

      I really like this machine! :-)
      I was going to say 1640 sounded kind of small and then realized it was for a front wheel. Anyway here is a handy link.


      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks! Bookmarked. Very handy.

        The Super Moto-X tires' end-diameter also varies with air-pressure (evidenced by the fact the tires would previously buzz on my fenders if tried to run at full-pressure). So I just measured one front-wheel... And yeah--if the other is a little different--so be it. But I had to go with a front-wheel, because the rear-end is a Cyclone Mid-drive--and hasn't any speed sensor (and I've enough wires already-without adding an unneccesary magnet-sensor to the rear-wheel--though technically I suppose I could)...

        I'm getting some errors off my BMS now too--when completing a charge, I'm getting an error-message that shuts down the battery (guessing it's an issue with maybe one or more mosfets). I'm afraid that I may have made one accidental spark too many during the "upgrade"...

        My other (lower-capacity, lower-ouput) battery also has a "Smart" BMS--but its Android App interface is one heck of a lot more useful and user-friendly. For example, it uses your devices GPS signal for speed-calculation--and has a "dashboard" screen (if you choose to look at your phone), displaying speed, amperage, voltage, mileage remaining. The battery can be locked and unlocked also via your device--and then any alerts--such as overtemp, or over/undervoltage alarms--all pop up in red circles on that dashboard-screen too... Very clear and useful app--also lets you view and modify a lot of settings. Also, there's an interface available, to get into still more advanced configuration options--via a USB cord and a PC (it's a USB / UART interface-box--with a plug that goes into the Bluetooth module's connection-point on the BMS).

        Point is--now there's a 150A version of that BMS--and I think I'm going to buy one. It'll be basically plug-and-play (and solder-and-solder)... And I can ditch that speed-sensor wire. All I really want going between my battery and machine--are my battery cables. And if one day I did "paralell" the batteries, I'd know that both BMS's would respond in-kind. That seems like a decent idea too...

        But it does appear that I'll be continuing to fiddle just a bit longer...

        More to follow!
        Last edited by tklop; 02-04-2020, 01:35 PM.

      Got the fenders bolted on more solidly...

      I'll get a picture up soon of them...

      They're trailer-fenders. Galvanized steel. And they don't fit perfectly--but they were a needed upgrade, because the Super Moto-X tires were just too crowded under the stock fenders (and I like going off-road). The one dimension in which they were ideal, was width. Fortunately, they do not make the machine any wider--just more "Jeep-Looking" :-)

      I cut lengths from an old 26" inner-tube and tucked them between the fender and the box. This reduces vibration, and provides a better mud-seal too.

      I can stand on the fenders--they do not budge, or even flex at all. Super-solid. And they give my tires plenty of room to breathe, slog sand around--whatever the case may be.

      I'd still like to paint them black--and intend to do so (at least the outsides--I don't really care if the insides stay silver). Sure--maybe I'd love to have them powder-coated... But I'll probably just rattle-can 'em.

      Further advancements I'm considering:

      I'd prefer my bakfiets to just have a power-cord--as opposed to the whole dragging-the-charger-in-and-out-every-time thing. My thinking is, since I carry the charger in the machine anyway--why not put it someplace it can operate--and just install it? (not hard-wired, just plugged in--but someplace inside the electronics bay). Further simplicity, further "clean" appearance... I probably will do that at some point (not a big priority though). I might like a retractable wind-up power-cord for such a setup... Maybe a wind-up cord-unit off an old vaccuum cleaner or something...

      A windscreen. Thinking self-made, plexiglas, metal-frame. Nothing I'm seeing aftermarket is going to be high or wide enough. Why not? Because I also want...

      A tent for the operator (me). Thinking something made of tent-material, using fiberglass tent-poles for support; flexible triangular design, poles fixed to each corner of that windscreen, and then at the back of the baggage rack above the taillight; a design meant to deform as the bakfiets turns. I've got a lot of the details in my head for this plan--just haven't figured out enough specifics to start buying materials or anything.

      A better sound-system (what I have is pretty mediocre). Thinking a marine-type stereo and speakers--maybe even a small subwoofer. Just a matter of figuring out where to stash all the components...

      There remains room for refinements, there are still adjustments I need to do to get the front and rear systems to cooperate as fully as practically possible--but I think it's safe to say the bulk of my work is now done.

      And I really, really love the way this machine has turned out!

      More to follow
      Last edited by tklop; 02-05-2020, 12:57 PM.


      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        A cursory check on methods for painting galvanized steel yielded an interesting result:

        Turns out it's difficult to paint galvanized steel--when it's new; takes tons of work, tons of prep. But once fully weathered, the only prep you need to do to galvanized steel, is to remove any organic materials from the surfaces. Weathered, it's basically just a matter of rinsing off, and you can paint it.

        Cool. That makes for a simple decision.

        So the fenders shall remain silver, until they've weathered to gray---and after that, I'll paint them black. :-)
        Last edited by tklop; 02-20-2020, 10:45 PM.

      Set the speed-calibration for the front-motors, within their Cyclone controllers today. Now, their speed display (in the app) matches my GPS speed readout pretty closely.

      Since I am still waiting for my temp-meter, I'm still not messing around with anything extreme--no "High Speed Mode" --no hot-rodding, etc.

      However, this morning ambient temps were around 3 Celsius (about 35 Fahrenheit), so I didn't figure it'd probably fry anything to do some slightly more expanded testing.

      This included a visit to one of the local horse-paths.

      I'm going to interrupt myself--to interject my praise for the YY (Cyclone) controllers' "Cruise Control" function. It doesn't care how slow you're going--like a lot of other systems do. Many won't hold any speed below 10 kph or so--but not the YY controller! It'll go into "Cruise" at walking-speed; even less if you like. This is absolutely perfect for off-road--especially for this bakfiets of mine...

      As I mentioned--there's several different speed-ranges available to me, via my switch-console. I placed the 3-Speed-Switch in "Low", and engaged the "Speed Limiter" function--giving me the lowest of those speed-ranges, and maximum fine throttle-control.

      Riding "off-road" on throttle-control, when my handlebars are bouncing around, is really tough--and it is made ten times worse with a super-twitchy throttle. Normally, to get around that, I just use "Cruise Control" --but finer throttle-control helps either way--because it makes it easier to perfectly synch the front and rear systems...

      Which is what I did next. First I set the mid-drive's "Auto-Cruise", then eased up the front-motors' throttle until it just caught up--and then engaged their "Manual-Cruise" and off I went.

      I find an easy pace helps. With 3WD, the machine remains completely manageable--and it can certainly go a little quicker, but at the slower-pace, even on the chopped up horse paths, even when bouncing over (smallish) roots and rocks--my suspensionless machine isn't too jarring.

      Three-wheel drive works great with my bakfiets really--always has--but it works extra nicely with the DD motors. They're much quieter than the geared-hub drives were, and as a plus, they act almost as if they've got traction-control. Through a few muddy-sections, all three wheels' Super Moto-X's sunk in to the rims--but the machine never once spun, never once slipped, never tried to change-course unexpectedly. It's not traction-control exactly, but it's nonetheless more stable now. I think perhaps the geared-hub motors were more affected individually by "bogging down" forces, and seemed to "swim" a lot more as a result. It was never that bad--not like a wrestling-match or anything--keeping it headed in the right direction... But now I do find the same level of control requires significantly less arm-effort than before.

      I didn't linger long, just went on home--only maybe five-minutes off-road; with only a few five-or-so meter long muddy sections here and there...

      Pretty sure I didn't overheat anything--the motors externals still felt ice-cold to the touch afterwards. Even though I'm aware that heat-transfer is quite limited--I'm certain that if I'd really fried anything--there'd have been at least some heat to feel on the housings.

      Still going to keep things gentle until I get that temp-meter--and beyond.

      More to follow...
      Last edited by tklop; 02-17-2020, 12:48 AM.


        Redoing the audio...

        Some time ago, I'd made an impulse-buy from Uncle Ali's --a 12V relatively water-resistant bluetooth speaker system designed for use on motorcycles...

        It sucks. it shouts at maximum volume to announce it's startup, and connections--and the sound quality is crap.

        But I do still want to be able to have music/radio/audio available to me (and my kids when they're passengers).

        So... There has been a more thoughtful purchase this time:

        Going with motorboat-components --splash-tolerant (being an outdoor machine)...

        It's not yet installed, but oh--it's nice-sounding. :-)

        Because the bakfiets isn't a car, but I'm sort-of turning it into one, with all the stuff I've added--the electrical systems is rather complex...

        In some cases, I've decided to make it even more complicated--for intuitive simplicity and ease of operation. This is an ongoing process.

        To that end, I've got a small 12V lead-acid gel-cell sealed battery (1.5AH) to maintain voltage--whenever the 48V battery is removed/switched off (and not powering the 48V-->12V buck-converter). I'm hoping this will maintain my radio's memory (like in a car) even if I've removed the main 48V suitcase-battery. For the sake of safety and redundancy, I may also wish to use this 2nd-battery-powered-circuit to power my bike-lights--so that they'll still be able to operate even in the unlikely scenario there's a problem with my main 48V battery.

        Initially, I was hoping that it might work if I just drop that battery in parallel with the radio's power-circuit, letting it just recharge whenever the 48V battery is switched on (or when the charger is hooked up). On further thought, I begin to doubt myself... Will that be enough? I wonder--will I'll also need a proper charging-circuit to control it's charge-cycles and their amperage-draw--like I would with a Lithium Ion battery?

        Of course I'll have to verify the digits with my multimeter before I commit to any specific hookup-plan, but I'm hoping at least that the buck-converter's output-voltage is in the range of charging-voltage for that little battery. If so, I'm sure I can figure this out.

        Once set up, it'd be ideal, even if such a recharging system requires additional compontents--it'll be ideal if it works fully automatically, without any buttons, so I could just leave it to take care of itself...

        One possibility is perhaps a switching-unit (automotive) designed for charging a 2nd-battery. The first set of terminals could just go to the output of the buck-converter (instead of the Starting Battery--as intended), while the 2nd set of leads go to the small 12V backup-battery... I dunno... If that worked effectively to keep the thing "topped up" I'd be happy. In that case, If I can get things reliably situated, I may also tap into that little battery to power an alarm-system. I could hide that sucker anyplace--maybe even a GPS transmitter! :-)


        Experimenting with charging the little12V mount-anywhere/any-position maintenance-free battery... I put it on a 12VDC charger (not a "real" one--just a wall-wart intended to recharge another device) and monitored the current-draw...

        At 12.6V input, it starts out pulling about 450ma, then it drops down to about 335ma on its own within a moment or two. The charger is set up to run at 500ma--to recharge the handy-vac--but even and after sitting with that battery for 1/2 hour, the current-draw stayed stable, and the wall-wart isn't even getting warm...

        Perhaps I don't have to worry about this thing ever "drawing too much" charge-current--as long as the charging-voltage is within range. It was a long time ago when I learned about lead-acid batteries in school... Those files are rather dusty... I do seem to recall something... What was it? Something about the chemistry of lead-acid batteries varying their own resistance with charge-level, so that as long as the system-voltage remained within parameters, they'd not have issues like gassing, etc... And something about the first-gen ni-cads in aircraft having issues with thermal-runaway---because thier chemistry--under the right (or wrong) conditions would actually begin to decrease in resistance with charge-level and heat--which could cause obviously serious issue in aircraft... Was that right? Of course this was decades before all the Lithium Ion-related series of transport aircraft crashes...

        I just can't recall those lessons all that clearly anymore... Perhaps it's just fine to wire it in parallel to the rest of the 12V system without any special charging-circuitry all--that's sort-of what I'm trying to assertain with this charge-test...

        Still not certain...


        The radio has an "accessory" lead... But the bike hasn't any "accessory" switch or circuitry--so this presents another challenge. I do want the radio to "switch off" when I turn off the keyed-switch. I want that to act like it would in a car (or on a boat).

        Right now, the Keyed-Switch (with twist-throttle) is currently connected to the "Power-Switch" legs of the three controllers. Currently, this 48V circuit has no effect upon the 12V system--and so cannot effectively operate that "accessory" lead--the one that'll kill my radio when I switch off the vehicle...

        So I think I'm going to readdress that circuitry--for the switch.

        Yes, complications. My vehicle, with its two electrical systems... But I still want it to behave "normally"--with regards to my keyed-switch... So here's my thinking: Relays. A pair of 12V relays (or perhaps just one with the right arrangement of contacts) but either way... I'm thinking the solution lies in the use of relays. The switch actuating the coil-side of course--one set of contacts switching-on the 12V fuse-block for the vehicle's accessories; the other set of contacts switching on the 48V power-switch circuit for the motors...

        Coming up with ideas like this make me grateful I kept everything "modular" and that I used a ton of crimp-on connectors!

        There will always be more to follow...
        Last edited by tklop; 02-21-2020, 04:56 AM.


        • tklop
          tklop commented
          Editing a comment
          Went ahead and mapped out the wiring I'll need--and ordered a couple 12V relays, so I can make my keyed-switch behave how I want it to.

          Oh, yeah--and another thing... Yeah--I didn't remember very well--but my hunch was right. No charging-circuitry needed for the lead-acid battery--just as long as my system voltage remains reasonable--and the buck-converter ensures that. Thanks, Wiki. Easy peasy.
          Last edited by tklop; 02-22-2020, 02:38 AM.


        I've got things set up pretty decently.

        I have wound up mirroring the settings between the Cyclone 4KW motor's controller, and the two Suring DD motors' controllers.

        What this winds up meaning, is that both the front and rear systems work together seamlessly--when my Cyclone 4KW mid-drive is pushing me along in 3rd-gear (my hardest).

        I didn't change anything about the gearing at all when swapping the front-wheel hub-motors--had no idea what they'd "top out" at exactly. Since I've still not played around with "high-speed mode" at all (and likely will only try that once or twice---just to see---after the temp-sensors are installed)...

        So, it used to "max-out" in 2nd-gear.

        Now, it "maxes-out" in 3rd-gear.

        The bakfiets got heavier, when I increased its battery-capacity so I've added back in a little more tire-pressure.

        The Super Moto-X tires are supposed to be e-bike rated up to 50kmh. I can testify that at high-speeds they're absolutely stable and true. For street/mixed use, I really think they're an excellent e-bike tire. Truly excellent.

        My favorite mode of operation now, is to link both throttles (left and right--front and rear systems respectively).

        Once underway, I just drop into 3rd-gear, and go easy on the throttle.

        Whenever needed, all three motors respond deliciously and simultaneously to any throttle inputs--and with such "soft-hands" the Cyclone 4KW on the rear-frame is much quieter (keep in mind--my rear-frame is particularly prone to resonance).

        I mentioned it in a reply I made to some other post... There's just different kinds of machines:

        I enjoy my city-bike project quite a lot. It's easier to get in and out of my apartment-building (for now), and that makes "local" trips--short-runs---much easier with the stadfiets (city-bike). The TSDZ2 is a nice, easy, brains-free simple system. I'm not required to do anything fancy--I just hop on, and ride my bike.

        Not so with the bakfiets; no. I'm not "riding a bike" --I'm "operating a machine"... That's okay--I'm not opposed to that--but as I just said in the last post, I want my components to behave intuitively. I'm not trying to turn my pedal-powered Babboe Big kid-hauler bakfiets into a car. However, I am trying to turn it into my own personal car-replacement --which may sound similar, but it's not really the same thing at all. I'm not going into production, don't intend to share what I've done with Babboe--or any other bike-manufacturer or customizer. Really, the only place I share my ideas, is here--and that's "open-source" obviously--if anyone wants to copy what I've done, well--they can. But afaik, the only person who will ever pilot this craft--will be me. Everything I've done so far has been with that intention--and in that way, it has all been quite personal...

        Having tried to make that distinction--I also must be realistic, and admit the bakfiets is looking more and more "car-ish" as time goes on. But in order to get the "personal car-replacement" features I want--well, let's face it: Most of what's appropriate out there to choose from product-wise, is made for either boats, cars, trucks, trailers, motorcycles, or motorhomes--and most operates on either 12VDC or 24VDC... Early on, I decided it was going to be worth the trouble to set up a 2-voltage system. From the beginning I needed a USB charging-circuit (mobile-device as dashboard)--and from the start I had designs on taking my bakfiets camping, and knew I needed a 12V outlet for "luxury camping" items like the cool-box... Once I'd decided for dual-voltage, it opened the door to the rest of that "realm" of components too... So, yes--that means a lot of "car-ish" stuff has made its way onto my "car-replacement"... And some "trailer-ish" stuff, some "boat-ish" stuff and even sometimes "motorcycle-ish" stuff...

        Car-ish, bike-ish, crate-ish or trike-ish -- all are fair descriptors... But in the end, no matter how it's described, even if I'm the only one who's going to be operating my machine, I still want it "operator-friendly". I don't want to have to fiddle with anything that ought to be automatic (like what ought to turn on and off with the key)--while I want a full range of manual controls for the stuff that matters.

        Step-by-step, I'm getting there...

        But as far as the way the "drivetrain" operates now, I'm super happy with it!

        The throttle is no longer a basically "on-or-off" digital-device--now it has "feel" and responsiveness across the full-range of operating-speeds. Before, unless going slowly, I just ran generally at max-speed. The motors "topped out" at about 32kph. The Cyclone, in 2nd-gear "topped out" at about the same speed--so if I set both systems at WOT, they'd both unload each-other a little-bit, and though operating at max-RPM, their power-levels remained low, and I had no issues that way (downshifting and easing off for hills, road-conditions, etc. obviously).

        Now, I've got more RPM's to play with, and responsiveness across the whole range of operational speeds.

        That full-range responsiveness came as a shock at first, but after taking some time to get used to it (like adjusting to a new/rental car) I find it's perfect. It took some practice "fine-tuning" my wrist-twisting muscle-memory, but I've found the responsiveness and level of sensitivity is just about ideal. I can even ease the throttle in gently, and get the bakfiets rolling from a dead-stop in its 3rd-gear--so there's plenty of fine-control (gently, because otherwise the Cyclone 4KW is prone to shearing the splines off the SA 3-speed IGH's sprockets).

        [Edit: Insertion]

        Thinking about that--I wonder if by just adding in a little more fast-start on the hub-motors (or another click of soft-start on the Cyclone 4KW)--if maybe I could prevent that sprocket-shearing issue. As I've stated many times, the front-motors "unload" the Cyclone--and vice-versa. The current settings are synched up reall well once it's rolling (above about 15kph) --it's only from a dead-stop that the Cyclone may be prone to "push too hard" --and risk snapping sprockets...

        If I can get the front-motors to unload the Cyclone just a bit extra at "launch"--I may be able to improve the "feel" just a little more...

        [End insertion]

        Suffice to say, that I know that I'm at least really close--if not done--with the settings. I like it how it is!

        Now, as far as everything else--no... I am not done--may never be entirely in terms of various refinements. I even puzzled a bit further over that raft-idea... A solar-panel roof; perhaps equipped with sails... Imagining one day paddle-wheel and sailing my bakfiets across the English Channel--that'd sure get some heads turning! (no need to worry for my health and safety--no plans just yet--only fantasies)

        But I feel quite comfortable saying that I love how my bakfiets drives!

        More to follow

        Oh, yeah--and the sound-system sounds pretty good. :-)
        Last edited by tklop; 02-24-2020, 03:10 AM.


        • tklop
          tklop commented
          Editing a comment
          Redid the sound-system somewhat--adjusting component-positions. I'd mounted the speakers into an extra wooden bakfiets-bench I had lying around, and swapped it into place on the machine. The sound was indeed good, but their position meant anything which sat on that bench, might squash them. This would at the very least muffle their sound, and potentially at the worst might damage or even destroy the speakers.  My daughters' feet also often go up on the benches. No, that wasn't going to be any good.

          So I relocated the bench, and put the original bench back in place.

          Now, the speakers are mounted on the vertical, positioned near the top of the box. The "bench" can also still swivel up to a relatively flat position--right below and in front of my handlebars, facing upward at me... Mmmmm... Loudness! :-)

          That original bench I put back has been put to use too though, because now the radio lives under it.  This is also advantageous, since the face winds up being in a protected position, out of sunlight, out of the way of my cargo (and kids' feet)--but where it can still easily controlled by the "steering-wheel remote". It's an ideal place for the radio too, because once I pull the face-plate off the radio, it is essentially out of sight.  Pretty handy.

          I don't believe that anybody has a Babboe Big as cool as mine!

        My Bakfiets' wooden-crate is prone to getting some water inside when I ride in the rain. Though not ideal, it also dries out pretty well on its own, esp. with my being able to keep it parked indoors.

        One area which had remained problematic, was the storage area underneath the front bench (the one the radio now lives under).

        This storage-area is where I keep my two chain-locks, and well... They're heavy. And they'd go *BANG* * CLANG* whenever I go over a bump--and that's annoying. So, I'd put some foam-rubber cushioning underneath and around them, to prevent the noise--but then, that foam-rubber wouldn't "breathe"--and so whenever the bakfiets was out in the rain, the water that naturally worked its way underneath, would just get trapped.

        I bought a rubber kitchen-style floor-mat; the kind with the open-cutout design, and the nubs underneath, allowing the floor below to drain/dry; and cut it to fit that cargo-bay.

        The box is made of good quality weather-treated plywood--but it's not a boat--it can't handle endless soaking. So though this wasn't a "miraculous" adaptation--it's still a big deal, because it's going to seriously extend the life of the plywood.

        Further steps will help. I will be saving money up for a new front tent--and will be sure I get one which protects the front-end a little better--in terms of water-ingestion; but that's not yet in the budget.


        The wiring can handle further improvements, but I'm going to hold off until I've solidified my plans.

        That front cargo-box contains a fair amount of wiring now. Already, I've got the wiring for the radio, turn-signals and marker-lights, and I'll be adding in 12V and USB outlets. To this end, I'm considering another revision.

        A couple approaches are possible. I could just run a 12V circuit off the buck-converter I've already got on my main electrical-panel.

        Though more complex, I think I'll instead opt to put in a 2nd 48V bus, with its own buck-converter and 12V fuse-block. I could wire that front-bus to the "Battery 2" position on my battery-selector switch.

        This would allow potential for a lot of flexibility:

        Battery Switch position 1 -- Main Battery powers Main 48V bus, the three motors, as well as a buck-converter and 12V fuse-block, to operate the lights and horn (I'll leave "essential" items on the Main Electrical Panel). If only one battery is hooked up, the front electronic-bay would be switched off. However, with the 2nd-battery installed, it could be used independently to power the front electronics-bay, and its lights, radio and accessories--meaning I could run all that extra crap off the second-battery, without having to carve away at my main battery's effective range.

        Battery Switch position 1 and 2 (both)-- Main battery powers both 48V busses. If 2nd-battery is attatched to the system, it would first need to be isolated (a separate "kill-switch" would be required for the 2nd-battery--or at least un-plug the cord). If needed, under unusual circumstances, the main battery could be disconnected--and then this position could be used to allow the 2nd battery to power both busses (though the 2nd-battery's 60A BMS would need handling with "kid gloves").

        Battery Switch position 2 -- Main Battery switched off, battery 2 powers only front-electronics bay and accessories.

        Note: Charger is currently hooked up to "Battery 2" terminal. So--battery 2 could be recharged (if installed) via Battery Switch Position 2, and battery 1 could still be recharged in position "1 and 2"-- but again, the 2nd-battery would require disconnection first. Also--obviously--things can be powered via the charger itself ("test-mode" if you like)... If I were to develop a solar system (for recharging at a campsite--for example)--that too could be hooked up to the front electronics bay--and that "battery 2" circuitry.


        I was thinking about the electrics further...

        If I ever do actually use a double-battery setup (for some epic camping adventure, etc.), I'll run the risk of accidentally bridging the two--if I inadvertently rotate the battery-switch to the "1 and 2" position, with both batteries connected.

        In order to "idiot-proof" the system, I would prefer a circuit-breaker, but the problem with that, is they're just too slow to trip. So instead, I'm considering adding a heavy-amperage fuese/fusable-link to that 2nd-battery/2nd 48V bus circuit--so that if the two batteries are ever accidentally linked, it'll be no harm no foul.

        A circuit-breaker would be easier to reset, but if placed in an easily-accessible position, a fusable-link/glass-fuse/etc. won't be difficult to replace either.

        [end insertion]

        And then... There's the ongoing development (mostly still in my head) of the "Operator's Roof" idea... The cargo-box/kid-carrying area is already taken care of, but my intention is to also make the operator's position like a convertible.

        Basically, the idea is sort-of like putting a beach-tent over my head. Nothing super-solid---but removeable-foldable-stowable. Fiberglass segmented tent-poles, flexible and sturdy--are of course ideal. For the fabric, maybe instead of tent-material, I go for something a bit stretchier--something more lycra/spandex-like--because the roof is going to stretch and twist as I turn (most noticeably at full-deflection turns).

        My idea is to begin by designing a removeable lift-out windscreen--plexiglass, slightly curved. Even if I can't ever get a roof-assembly to work, I'll still want a windscreen. My intention, is to fit the top corners with fittings for the fiberglass tent-poles. They'd arch from there, back over my head, with the other ends of the tent-poles coming together at the back of the rear-frame's rear-rack.

        Add in a couple of crossways tent-poles to maintain the separation--keeping the roof-fabric stretched out over my head--and I believe it'd work.

        I'm certain I'm on-track with my plans, but there's this great big intimidating bear standing right in my path--and he's giving me the stink-eye. Bear says, "Yeah--cool idea, Mister--but you don't really know how to sew." I hate when the bear is right.

        If I did know how to sew, I could perhaps take it still further--by using elastic lines, I could make a bit more of a "shell"--not exactly doors, but some more side-protection...

        I'm not sure when (if ever) I'll dive into this phase of development--whenever I do, I know there's nothing for it but to begin; and the logical place to start with is the windscreen. After that's figured out, I'll be able to move on to the poles. If I can figure out how to get them effectively arranged, linked, supported and secured--then I'll have some measurable dimensions to work with. Once I've got those numbers, then I can finally try and gather up my courage to face that bear--and bust out the sewing-machine!

        [edit insertion]

        I'm still mulling over the roof idea--and have come up with another alternative...

        Initially, I thought I'd prefer something based on the frame-anchors on the corners of the bakfiets--to support a windscreen... But upon further thought, I'm not sure that's going to be substantial enough. This had me considering alternatives.

        The pipe-fitting style aluminum bumper on the bakfiets had me thinking: Maybe an assortment of that series of components can be adapted as a simple way to get a windscreen-frame put together. The various components available aren't super-light, but they're aluminum--a frame and windscreen won't make the bakfiets top-heavy.

        I'm initially hesitant--for how clunky it'll look... But it'd be both sturdy and modular--and offers another tempting possibility: A hard-top roof. It could be cross-braced at the corners easily, with the pieces available--and fully-supported from the box; no more arching fiberglass tent-poles, just open-air behind me. The whole windshield/roof/frame-thing could be removed, or even only the rooftop section removed--leaving the rest of the frame and windscreen in place...

        And I can just neatly avoid the bear--because I'd not need to sew anything either... Attatching a piece of plexiglass for a windscreen would be pretty easy--and the same technique would apply for the roof (maybe something non-transparent instead--perhaps also something lighter-weight).

        [end insertion]

        More to follow
        Last edited by tklop; 03-01-2020, 09:14 AM.



          Generally speaking, I find myself getting uncomfortable if I've got anything less than two-seconds of roadway illuminated in front-of me--at any given speed. Probably harkens back to my driver's education days--when I learned that two-seconds was pretty-much minimal in terms of headlight-illumination. Two-seconds also was considered standard minimum-safe-following-distance (under ideal conditions of roadway, visibility, etc). Two-seconds... I learned too, that "Low-Beam" headlights on a vehicle, when properly aimed, won't even give you that two-seconds at 100kph... Drive at 60+mph, without high-beams, and you're essentially driving blind... Driver's education was helpful; taught a lot of stuff like that.

          Now--don't worry if you're a Dutch driver--or for that matter a Californian--and dead-simple concepts like "safe following distance" are completely beyond your ability to grasp--it's okay. Pay no mind to all that nonsense. It's perfectly fine to go 90+mph down the car-pool lane approximately seventeen inches off the rear-bumper of the vehicle in front of you--cellphone in your hand. And don't even worry about things headlights or turn-signals--just turn them off altogether. Last thing I'd wish to do, is derail you from your fast-track to self-elimination. ;-)

          Anyways... My current headlights are really bright. Very good--fantastic actually. Well--to be honest, they're if anything--more than a little bit too powerful...

          Bright. It's a serious understatement to describe the glare when facing them as uncomfortable. To prevent excessive misery and blindness to my opposing-traffic, I've aimed them quite low--like you might expect with fog-lights kind-of low--well, even lower than that actually... Basically, I'd pointed them about as low as I could possibly stand, based on wanting that two-seconds' illumination, at my former top-speed...

          But even when aimed low like that, as they're still currently operating--I can tell by the squinting faces going by, that I'm continuing to blind others from the lights' searing supernova-star-bright glare. This being the case--it's obviouis that one way or another, sooner or later it was going to be time for a change.

          Now I've swapped the geared-hub front-motors for the direct-drive front-hub-motors, I've got a little-bit more top-speed to work with. This means I'm beginning to over-run my headlights at night. Now--I do think it's best to keep my speed down anyway, for safety's sake--but there's no part of "driving blind" that's gonna fit into my "Safey Book" --so-to-speak. More incentive to address the issues, and consider a less-glaring headlight option. They're still horribly bright--and I just wouldn't feel right aiming these old ones back up again. My safety-margin for now, comes with a reduction in night-time speed. Not a bad idea anyway.

          But for those rare night-rides, where I've got broad open sections of smooth fresh asphalt bike-path--I've ordered some new halogen headlghts, which will have both high and low beam--so that I can ride with adequate illumination at night--right up to top-speed. I opted for the yellow-lenses. I'm hoping they'll be less blinding to opposing traffic (my own eyes find the yellows easier to take--though I do realize not everybody's eyes will react the same way mine do), but I also chose yellow because whenever it is foggy or misty, the further toward the red-end of the light-spectrum your illumination-source is, the better your light will penetrate the mist. For inclement weather, yellow is a pretty good thing--which is why it's a common color for fog-lights, and for use on snowmachines and other winter/snow-use vehicles.

          I intend to aim them much lower than they'd be on a car. I am much slower than a car. I want the pool of light to match my speed--which ought to put that pool of light much closer to me than it'd be for a motor-vehicle. It'll depend upon how the beam-patterns work out, and some experimentation will be needed to make those determinations, but my plan at this point, is to set the far-edge of the "Low-Beam" pattern--to give me that minimum-two-seconds at my "cruising-speed". The low-beams will definitely be dipped lower than they'd be on a car. Hopefully that will also mean that my "High-Beam" pattern too remains dipped--that its pattern remains a pool of light on the ground--just extending further. I don't need a great beam extending a half-mile ahead of me; I mean--it is a bike after all, not a car or truck. There are simply no concievable situations where I'll need my "High Beams" to illuminate 300+ yards down the road.

          I do still intend to utilyze the insanely bright LED ones--just repurposed for "fog-lamps/off-road lamps". I'll put them on their own switch--and then I'll probably just leave those suckers off most of the time; hopefully sparing other road and bike-path users' eyes.

          To control the functions, there's going to be a new turn-signal/horn/headlight switch. The new one will add a "Hazard Lights" function. As well as the neccesary "High Beam/Low Beam" selector, it's also got a momentary "Passing" signal --flashes the headlights--along with the expected horn-button and turn-signal selector. The new one will also be less ugly than the original. I was actually just using the original 3-speed Switch from Cyclone--only re-re-purposed back to its intended turn-signal-switch purpose--since I'm now controlling the Cyclone via my console... So yeah--point is, it's not so ugly. No more green, red and orange--just nice and black, with neutral grey buttons.

          Of course, new stuff's coming slowly from Uncle Ali... New headlights and new switch are waterproof--motorcycle parts...


          There will probably always be more to follow!
          Last edited by tklop; 03-08-2020, 03:23 AM.


          • tklop
            tklop commented
            Editing a comment
            Thx, calfee20 I sure appreciated it! Back when I'd done the TSDZ2 conversion on the Giant Mio--both sides' BB plastic bearing-cups immediately just stripped out. No chance at all. I wound up having to drill and weaken the cups--and then violently hammer the bearing out from the opposite side. It was noisy, but it worked just fine though--then same thing, gently hack-sawed out the remaining plastic--and wha-la... Done. Next time I may try that pipe-wrench + asst'd stack of hardware + bolt idea (not having either a workshop, nor a workbench so obviously no workbench-mounted vice)--also didn't have the proper bolt, nor a pipe-wrench (or equivalent).. I just didn't have all the ingredients at the time.
            Last edited by tklop; 03-10-2020, 08:39 AM.

          • calfee20
            calfee20 commented
            Editing a comment
            That trick of holding the splined socket/tool in place is real good. I was swapping out a BB just before I watched the video. Nothing was plastic ,frozen, or stripped but holding that tool in place.... I am going to put some spacers and bolts in my toolbox just for that.

          • tklop
            tklop commented
            Editing a comment
            I intend to do the same thing! :-)

          Installed, but not yet fully refined:

          Windshield. 4mm clear polycarbonate, impact-resistant, 75cm x 75cm. With the tent installed over the cargo/kid-box, the windshield extends above that--covers slightly more than the width of the box--and rises to just above the top of my head. Yep. Overkill. Just right!

          I've got it set up, so the windshield can lift out--removeable, like an old-fashioned jeep.

          I will be stiffening the frame, and its supports, to lessen the flex, and will add a rail to the bottom-edge, so it's a little stiffer.

          The windshield catches a lot of wind (obviously), but it is manageable. My ride is so much quieter--and warmer too--it's absolutely perfect!

          Photos will show up eventualy... Still hate uploading them--always too big.
          Last edited by tklop; 03-21-2020, 11:03 PM.


          • tklop
            tklop commented
            Editing a comment
            Stiffened the bracing. Now, no matter the gusts--it's not coming back at me and pushing my side-mirrors out of place anymore.

            Heavy gusts, large bumps--it'll still shake and wobble some. And really big gusts will still potentially be an issue in terms of loss-of-control, but none of those things should cause the windshield's top-edge to whack me in the forehead anymore (only happened once--not that painful--but felt quite insulting).
            Last edited by tklop; 03-22-2020, 12:20 PM.

          Lights. They're going to be fantastic.

          I need to wire them up still, but I've mounted them to my front-bumper.

          My original too-low-dipped lights which are too bright for night-use will remain where they are--will become "daytime running lights" basically (with a switch--don't have to be on), with the headlights positioned above them. In the daytime, they're bright--but not unbearably so--and if I'm out and about in the city, I just plain want to seen--so I'll likely use them a lot.

          Though not yet wired, with a 12V test-battery, it looks like the new headlights' illumination will be outstanding, while their blindingness minimal. Just as planned.

          I had to shift the turn-signals up by about three inches, but that's okay--if anything, they'll be more visible.

          Tomorrow (hopefully) I'll get some wiring done.

          Every time I turn around, it seems there's more wiring to do, more to consolidate.

          Now, I'm considering whether or not to just go ahead and do a "chassis ground" --to at least eliminate nearly half the wiring--the various circuits' (-) negative wires.

          I may yet do that--but for now, I think I'll just get them operational, and test and adjust them on-the-road, in-the-dark tomorrow night.

          Once viable, aimed and tested, I can go on with the rest of the job.

          The wires leaving my existing headlight/marker-light switch will need to be realigned to match the new lighting arrangement.

          The new headlights have a soft "parking-light" 10W position. This will be on when the parking-lights/marker-lights are on, but will extinguish when the headlights are activated--but the rest of the marker-lights will remain lit.

          The existing "daytime running lights" too will be hooked to that same circuit--but with a separate switch also; if on, will extinguish when headlights are activated... Or... Hmm... Or maybe the "daytime running lights" will just be on their own circuit entirely--let me use them whenever I want to--even with High-Beams... Options.... I can't decide just yet. I can see advantages to either configuration.

          Anyways--all the more reason to start with making it function--and then decide all the nifty details maybe when I am ready to tidy up the wiring (again).
          Last edited by tklop; 03-22-2020, 10:36 PM.


          • tklop
            tklop commented
            Editing a comment
            Got everything wired--operationally.

            Went ahead and ran a jumper from my Negative Bus to the Front-Frame. This will allow simplification of the wiring next time I redo things (single-conductor feeds, etc.).

          Brief walk-around

          I point at things... If you read all this crap, you'll know what I'm pointing at.

          I'm not yakking, for the same reason I'm not demonstrating the horn--this is inside the hallway of my apartment building.


          Said there'd be images. Now there are.
          Last edited by tklop; 03-23-2020, 08:51 AM.


          • tklop
            tklop commented
            Editing a comment
            The appearance is already altered from the video. The mirrors have been relocated, opening up space on the handlebars, the cross-brace under the goose-neck now has a bracket, instead of a strap, and the cup-holder is installed (not sure it'll work out as positioned--we'll see)...

            Next step will be the new combi-switch. It'll still be big and clunky, but much more user-friendly, and functional.

          • calfee20
            calfee20 commented
            Editing a comment
            Your video made me smile!

          • tklop
            tklop commented
            Editing a comment
            Thx, calfee20 :-)

          Thx, calfee20 :-) [copied to comment 88.3]

          I am very happy to spread a smile or two!

          I still want to install my new turn-signal + High-beam/Low-beam/Passing-signal + Horn + Hazard-lights combi-switch, and the adjacent toggle-switch for the LED "daytime running-lights/fog-lights"

          But since it is all working fine for now, I'm going to stick with the current switches--until I get the chance to tackle another wiring update.

          Electricals still needing work:

          1) I want stuff to turn on and off with my keyed-switch----not just the motors. To this end, I'm going to wire the switch to the 12V system, and use relays to activate the 48V power-switch circuits to activate the motors, and to simultaneously activate whatever "switchables" I want on my 12V accessory-circuit. I'm thinking things like the radio, power-outlets, etc.

          2) I need to install my little 12V battery (to simulate the "always-on" car-battery connection for the radio). I'm planning to install a noise-filter capacitor across its terminals, but this battery-circuit too may need a relay--connecting to the 12V buck-transformers with "key-on" for recharging--but disconnected with "key-off" to prevent the battery from backfeeding the rest of the 12V circuitry when parked; main 48V battery off.

          3) I would like to consolidate the wiring, and bundle it--make it into as homogenous as possible a "wiring harness". This won't include the spaghetti of quick-disconnects going to and from the controls, and various circuits--the electronics-bay will remain a place where reliance on careful labeling is a lifesaver. As I explained before, I cannot justify the extra efforts needed for tidiness, when the overarching goal is ease-of-component-replacement.

          4) Both in contrast, and in keeping with #3, I want to set up junction-boxes on either side of the compartment under the front-box bench. I don't want this whole area to become another wire-snarl, like underneath the rear-bench inevitably has to be, but junction-boxes for either side's lighting-circuitry can still ease component-replacement. These boxes can serve as well as places for radio-connections, power-outlets, or others. A third junction-box for a second-48V source (battery or solar) might also find its home inside this bay--but so far, that's not yet a solid part of my plans.

          Windscreen update: Test rides show the compound-curve--slight as it may be--has stiffened up the windshield immensely and has indeed reduced its drag (I can tell by the top-speed available to me).

          I have quieted its rattles, and stiffened its frame considerably--and I'm much more comfortable out of the wind.

          To this point, as with many other times over the course of the development of this project, it would seem that give-or-take 30kph is once again (unsurprisingly) a comfortable cruising-speed. Above that, the wind does start to really pull on the windshield, and while it is now plenty stiff enough to prevent too much flexing--any changes in wind-direction can indeed have steering-input consequences--obviously--as the windshield is fixed to the box; and the faster you're going, the tougher that wresting-match becomes. Anyone who's driven a tall truck/van eastbound on I-84 through Troutdale, and on up the Columbia Gorge on a gusty day will understand--sometimes you're flat unable to stay between the lane-markers over about 45mph. Difference is, I can still go faster on those gusty days if I want to. I just have to lift off the windshield, and put on some goggles!

          I know I keep saying it, but it's true. I am extremely happy with this machine.

          I have been fond of many bicycles, many cars I've owned... I've been fond of work-trucks, even moving-vans. I've gained an affinity for many machines--so it's not unsusal per se for me to feel such an attachment as I do for my bakfiets.

          But this project is special, truly... I did not plan it, did not expect it; wasn't on my radar at all... But this crazy machine (though it's still not "done") is already right up there among the most enjoyable "rides" I've ever owned. The windshield--and the comfort that brings--has been a gigantic leap forward in this regard. Next step? Super-cushy seat. Eyeballing some nice motorcycle seats--extending right back over the luggage-rack, so another adult-passenger can be carried on the back if I like. Foot-pegs too...

          I am happy too that I've managed to amaze and amuse many other folks with my project too. I'm glad to spread some joy here and there, for sure.

          After all, I do have the coolest Babboe Big Bakfiets in The Netherlands--if not the entire world!
          Last edited by tklop; 03-26-2020, 09:25 AM.


            Be careful choosing a relay. A horn relay is meant for intermittent use and to have it on all of the time might lead to overheating. Something like a fuel pump relay would be different. I have not tried this but if you had a small triggering signal a solid-state relay may work better than a mechanical relay. Something like this?


            • tklop
              tklop commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks! A horn-relay will be fine for the horn--but yeah, the things I'm trying to accomplish need "continuous" operation. Already thinking along those lines, I've got two fuel pump relays on hand. I'll need at least one more relay, to get all the switching-functions I'm after. I'll consider a solid-state relay. That'd work fine for the motor-controllers' power-switch circuits, but the rest will need higher amperage contacts. The price is about the same too, so that's a consideration as well. Food for thought!