No announcement yet.

Bakfiets earns its flames!

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    I disagree on Google. It can be quite good for getting you to scholarly articles, but then you have to pay to view the whole thing, like the links below. Once you find a good scholarly article, you end up going down a rabbit hole of databases too.

    If Calfee20 is on the money (rhymes people ..... rhymes), then you just need to calculate how much load you want to lift, divide by 1.285kg, and multiply that by cubic meters. Figure a fairly typical person weighing 80Kg(80/1.285)would need a craft containing 62.25 cubic meters of aerogel filled space to create enough lift. The Goodyear blimp measures 5740 cubic meters of volume, so figure a theoretical craft that size could lift 4,466 kilos (5740/1.285). Seems like if you keep your propulsion, avionics, and safety systems weight down, you could get a way with a blimp type craft the size of a large twin plane engine. I'm thinking something more teardrop shaped would be best, for better aerodynamics. I do end up coming across articles talking about graphene aerogel, so looks like folks are trying to make it sturdy already. Hmmmmm......


    • tklop
      tklop commented
      Editing a comment
      I love how your imagination is taking off with this idea too! Proves its value.

      I wish to hell I was in position to do some development... Or to help you develop it--anybody!

      Seems like such a cool idea...

      I hope seriously somebody can do something with it--even if the tech ain't quite there yet, it may one day be.
      Last edited by tklop; 07-19-2020, 11:42 AM.

    New seat:

    Thing is, if I want to change seating positions, a bike-seat just isn't very flexible.

    This helps improve comfort in that regard big-time:

    Plus it's got room for another adult to perch behind me, if needed.

    A brand-new, all-weather, ready-made, decent height, cushy-comfy two-person seat... And the price isn't bad. I figured what the heck?

    It's a moped-seat (in case that's not obvious). The front-end is fitted with a seat-post, meant to fit into the moped's frame, where its original bike-seat's saddle-pin went; while the rear-end of the "buddy-seat" mounts to the top of the bike-rack. Basically not terribly unlike a banana-seat in terms of installation...

    I saw an obvious opportunity--since the rear-frame of my bakfiets' geometry (along with tons of other bikes) is essentially identical.

    Seemed a ready-made solution!

    Turns out I should've measured beforehand...

    The saddle-pin portion was just a bit too big. It was darn close--but then with a layer of powder-coating that put it over the top. There was just no way the moped-seatpost was fitting into my frame as-is.

    But that's okay--we're all inventors here--we adapt; we overcome.

    I split the first couple inches of that saddle-pin lengthwise with a hack-saw, then drilled out round relief-holes at the base of each cut. Finally, I took a smooth file and not-so-patiently removed all the powder-coating from the lower-end of the saddle-pin.

    Next, I took a black permanent marker, and colored over the ugly white PUCH logo. My bakfiets is not a PUCH.

    Then, with a little white-grease, I was able to wrestle the sucker into place.

    So far, so good.

    It's wider at the front-end than a normal bike-seat, but my pedals are also extra-widely spaced with the 4KW Cyclone, so it's not awkward.

    I took a fairly short ride this evening to get a feel for the seat.

    Shifting rearward allows me a few different seating-angle and posture options. I expect this will improve comfort on longer rides significantly.

    If I want to, I can even slide all the way to the back of the seat, but putting any weight on the bakfiets handlebars causes unpleasant handling--so that's perhaps not the best idea.

    So far, it sits nicely--compared to the original bike-seat. Though without springs, its cushioning is deeper. I remain hopeful its shock-absorption properties will save me some lower-back pain too.

    I've gotta arrange new saddlebags though--the old ones don't fit anymore...

    The work is never done... Thank goodness!

    Here's a pic:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMAG0124.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.89 MB ID:	109972‚Äč
    Last edited by tklop; 07-16-2020, 02:09 PM.


    • tklop
      tklop commented
      Editing a comment
      I've taken a few long-ish rides with the new seat, and it is turning out to be quite comfortable. I am enjoying the ability to shift, scoot, and change positions on it.

      Today, I had my first "Full-Family Test"...

      My oldest was doing her "Finals" today--for her swimming-lessons, and I wanted to be there to see her graduate--and get her Level 2 swimming-diploma.

      Without spoke-skirt-guards the "buddy-seat" rear-position is at this time still too dangerous for kid-feet. So, I put both kids in the box, and (coerced) my ex to ride on the back--on my new moped buddy-seat.

      Yep... That's right--a Babboe Big Bakfiets--as a four-person vehicle! I'm pretty sure I wouldn't even use up the fingers on one hand--counting up how many of us have projects which can carry ourselves--plus three additional passengers. I think that's pretty cool.

      The short trip to the pool went okay, but it's apparent the rear seating-position needs foot pegs for comfort. I'm going to order some--along with some spoke-guards (to protect kid-feet).

      Now--I know, sure... Adult rear-passengers ought to be able to keep their feet on the foot-pegs, and out of the spokes. Both my kids do both still fit in the box.

      But listen--this vehicle provides me a unique chance: If I opt for the spoke-guards, I can leave one kid in the box in front of me--and have the option to plop the other one on the seat behind me. Bored kids on long rides often wind up relentlessly arguing with one another--as we all know... But one in front and one behind me? You can't even get that kind of sibling-separation in a passenger-van. They won't even be able to look at each other anymore!

      It still feels weird to say it, but it's true:

      My bakfiets is my favorite car!
      Last edited by tklop; 07-18-2020, 08:59 AM.

    • tklop
      tklop commented
      Editing a comment
      A little more time elapsed, and still very happy with the puch moped buddy-seat.

      Very happy indeed.

      I had a nice seat. I've had very nice seats--much more expensive very nice seats...

      And this one is seriously incomparably much more comfortable for all rides--longer or shorter--no contest.

      So further detailed feedback seems in order: The foam is nice and deep, but squishes down after riding for a half-hour or so, and it sort-of forms a "rut" under your butt, if you don't shift positions once in a while (or take a break).

      I don't consider this a deal-breaker--since the whole point of the seat, is the ability to shift positions anyway.

      I recommend this item as a comfort-mod. Wish i'd found it years ago! If considering it though--be smarter about it than I was, and pre-measure. But also be bolstered by my experience--and don't be afraid to modify if you're "in the neighborhood".
      Last edited by tklop; 07-31-2020, 09:36 AM.

    Rollin with 4 passengers, and no issue? Bakfiets is a BEAST!

    Last edited by DaHose; 07-18-2020, 09:39 PM.


    • tklop
      tklop commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks! :-)

      I seriously love this machine.

      It is possible that at some point I'll run out of ways to improve upon it...

      But not yet!

      Are we inventors ever really done anyway?
      Last edited by tklop; 07-19-2020, 12:17 PM.

    More lights... Effin' christmas tree...

    Lighting has been an evolutionary process (gone into earlier in this thread).

    I've got two lighting-systems basically--one 12v, one 5v (USB-power-supply type voltage).

    The 12v system does the headlights, fog-lights, and turn-signals, while my marker-lights are powered off the USB voltage.

    The 12v system also powers some USB-transformers--and I've used one of those to power the 5v lighting.

    One reason for two systems, was that USB-power is a pretty good equivalent to what I'd gotten from my wheel-hub dynamos--and so it works just fine for bike-equipment (like my LED bike-fender taillights). Additionally, USB outlets let me have fun with self-adhesive USB "Strip-Lights" (about 99 cents a piece), which are fantastic for use as marker-lights (and to make a groovy green glow underneath--other silliness)... Yes--some of it's pure ridiculous--and it cannot be reasonably argued that I haven't already got more lighting than I need--but just like anything else, the lighting is also subject to fine-tuning.

    So I persist...

    Because of the bakfiets' dimensions (as I previously mentioned), electronic turn-signals are actually highly effective--because they've got enough lateral separation.

    To this point, I had yellow indicators on the front of the box (they're two-sided mini lollipop lights--so they're also visible from their rearward-facing sides).

    Though the bike-fender lights were okay, I thought I'd try to get something 12v. So I'd bought some inexpensive LED two-brightness taillights, which I'd intended to use on the fenders--as taillights and turn-signals.

    But those lights weren't actually meant to be used that way--just as brake-lights/taillights. So they only had a resistor for one (+) leg--meaning that when I tried to use them for turn-signals, they'd backfeed (dimly) through front turn-signal on the opposite side. That was obviously not gonna fly...

    So--I just decided to use the Bright leg of each of those taillamps, and use it for a turn-signal, and just leave the original (bicycle-equipment) taillights in-place...

    But then--a page or two ago--I went and brainstormed that super-simple $5 brake-light-relay circuit... And lame as it is--I've not made use of it yet!

    And that meant I did want to use those new taillights--as taillights and brake-lights (and add a third taillight/brakelight to the rear-rack behind me).

    Meanwhile, I'd noticed how effective it was having that extra turn-indicator on the rear-side of the box--because it is directly visible to drivers next to me...

    So I decided to add another pair of yellow indicators to the rear of the fenders.

    When I've got all the 12v lights up and running, I'll evaluate them in comparison to the brightness of the original taillights (the bicycle equip lights).

    The bike-lights have built-in reflectors--while the other taillights do not. This is one good reason to leave them in-place...

    In any case, if those bike-lights are comparably bright to the Brake Lights' brightness, then I need to make sure I'm not confusing those behind me. Might remove them in that case--just replace them with my "motorbike" brake-light/taillights... Or maybe as another option, I can leave them in their place--just leave them switched off--maybe just reserve them for use as rear fog-lamps.

    The turn-signals are installed and operational, but I need more crimp terminals--so the about-to-be-un-re-purposed brake-lights and tail-lights still have to wait for now--but the bicycle-type ones are still fine as taillights for the time being.

    There will inevitably be more to follow...
    Last edited by tklop; 07-19-2020, 12:56 PM.


    • tklop
      tklop commented
      Editing a comment
      Brake-lights done...

      One on the rack behind me (below the new seat), and one behind each fender.

      That tiny little $5 relay functions perfectly off the controller-voltage--shuts down all three motors, and lights up my brake-lights--just exactly as in the demo-vid.

      Brake-lights are nice.

    Another idea--which I probably won't do, but wish to keep in mind...

    LiFePO4 High-Discharge Pouch-Cells are awesome for powering a bakfiets. Flat, rectangular--they're easy to pack into a suitcase-battery like I have.

    Though I'd be hesitant to do so with other battery chemistry types, I'm considering a sort-of "floor-battery" idea:

    Simple idea: Lay the flat, rectangular cells out on the bakfiets plywood floor (or a footprint-facsimile thereof), arranging them in a series-geometry. If a 16s battery is desired, an appropriate size cell can be selected to take advantage of as much of that floor space as possible; while smaller-dimension cells could be used if one desired a 20p or a 24p battery. Once that single-layer is figured out, and the cell-order established, adding "parallel groups" simply involves stacking another layer of cells atop the last.

    The first advantage is obviously the lowest-possible center-of-gravity for the machine. The battery's mass being centered--and very low--would add badly needed stability to the machine.

    Next, the number of desired parallels is simply a matter of stacking additional layers of cells.

    I could arrange the cells I'm currently using inside the suitcase-battery, but I could increase to 18p--while significantly lowering the center-of-gravity, and while restoring all the cargo-space that suitcase battery now consumes.

    The idea, would be to use periodic supports between cells, and then sandwich them (weatherproof/waterproof) beneath another plywood-floor.

    So, yes, the floor would be raised--but then everything above it would simply be open. Not just a lot more stable--room for a lot more stuff.

    I'll need to look into things more deeply, to see if any more protection beyond what the BMS would offer is indicated... But this may be one of my next evolutionary steps...

    Again--I'd attempt to keep the floor-battery just as modular as everything else in my design. I think that'd be completely doable.

    Anyways--that's for further down the road, when I've my own shop--or at least some room to work in.

    But I didn't want to forget the concept--so as usual, I'm using my project-thread as a note-pad!

    More to follow...

    Maybe today I finally get the brake-lights going--with my handy-dandy-little relay-circuit thingy.


      My kids are growing, and I'd like to get them to fit in the bakfiets a little longer. So I've done a couple mods.

      I've raised the roof in the front by 2 1/2 inches, and in the rear by about 7 3/4 inches,

      I have also partially redone the seating, now a forward-facing more-or-less "adult-size" seat, instead of the narrow kid-bench.

      I've also moved the speakers to the front-end of the box, to facilitate the other changes.

      I'm not done completely yet. I wish to free-up foot-space in the front of the bakfiets, by moving the stereo and speakers upward.

      As with every other thing I've done since the beginning--this is purely experimental, and is bound to develop.

      There will be more to follow.
      Last edited by tklop; 08-15-2020, 02:46 AM.


      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        That up there ^^ That's not my comment.

        Yet I am unable to edit or delete it.

        I'm afraid our beloved forum has been Ukraine'd.

        [EDIT] Problem Solved!

        The comment that wasn't mine has been removed by admin--and the comment I actually had tried to post has finally been restored!

        Thanks, Admin!

        So--yeah--just adding this message to the comments, so the comments won't be confusing to future readers.
        Last edited by tklop; 08-29-2020, 03:31 PM.

      • calfee20
        calfee20 commented
        Editing a comment
        I was wondering because the post made no sense.

      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        I've managed to free up that foot-space, and I even raised the roof up just a little higher still.

        I had my ex and my daughter climb in, and I drove them around the neighborhood...

        So, yeah--it's definitely roomy enough now for my daughters--they'll fit for years to come...

        And after driving my ex around too, it's clear I can give another adult a ride now too--if I should ever want to (or need to). That's nice.

        Though pretty much at the upper-limit, with my hair just touching the top of the tent, and my knees just touching the padding on the "dashboard", even my own six-foot-two frame can now sit comfortably in the box.

        I love this machine.

        Others love this machine too. I get a great deal of positive feedback.

      Latest conversion:

      Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG-20200918-WA0006.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	1.34 MB ID:	114204 Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG-20200919-WA0000.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	1.50 MB ID:	114205

      The donor-bike was literally free. Thrown away.

      I live in a big apartment building. Every so often a huge dumpster is placed outside, and everybody's "too big to fit in the garbage can" stuff gets heaved in.

      Somebody rolled this bike up to the pile of crap (old appliances, and several other completely mangled bikes)... Yes--I said "rolled this bike"... With the key still in the lock.

      So, I just made my way downstairs, and rolled the bike back up to my apartment.

      Now--the bike had no seat, a flat front-tire, no lights.

      The bike has a million dings and nicks in the paint, and each is rusty. It's quite possible it has had a swim in one of The Netherlands' many canals and/or ditches.

      The story was clear: The bike's chain had fallen off, and jammed. The bike had been parked. Pieces had been picked off the bike (its seat). Perhaps for another of the owner's bikes--or perhaps while sitting outside someplace--with its busted chain--either way. After the seat was gone, and the tires went flat, well... Remember what I said about Dutch bike owners? Literally there's no "user maintenance" done in most cases. And this was an old bike... A shed-queen. And somebody decided it was time to "clean up"...

      Out there on Big Garbage Day, there were three others--a racing-bike frame, a mountain-bike frame, and a really beat-up omafiets with potato-chipped wheels. I just let the metals-guy haul them away... I cannot save all the orphaned bikes.

      Amazing though, what an oil-moistened rag can do--for such cosmetic issues. Ask me? I say she's turned out looking damn good.

      It's a "Limit" brand bicycle, the model is "Xalina". The bicycle was manufactured for Halfords--and made right here, in The Netherlands.

      I replaced the front tire and tube. New inner-tube obviously, but the outer tire was one of my old bakfiets rear-wheel tires.

      I popped my old bakfiets seat (along with quick-adjusting nut, and seatpost) on.

      I always prefer brake-lights when possible, and I still maintain the easiest way to arrange them is via a wheel-hub generator in the front-wheel. Busch & Muller make some that sense the pulse-rate of your wheel-dynamo, and when that pulse-rate drops, it activates a brighter pulsing brake-light effect--for those following you. Fantastic. Works with our without your e-bike battery, works anytime your bike is moving. The lights remain illuminated for a few-minutes too after stopping, for stoplights and the like, and so you can see your way through your back garden. Wheel-hub dynamos are reliable, and believe-it-or-not, less energy-consumptive. The difference is admittedly marginal, but it's measurable. Monitoring the wattage-meter on two otherwise identical e-bikes, you can compare the wattage-increase due to resistance of the dynamo generating the 6VAC signal, versus the wattage-increase than you get using the same exact headlamp--powered by the system's 6VDC light-circuit. The dynamo is measurably more energy-efficient.

      But this bike had no front-wheel hub-dynamo--so that's not an option (for now). Furthermore, none of the TSDZ2 conversions I've done have used e-bike brake-handles, so my easy-peasy brake-light relay-mod won't work either. So, for the sake of simplicity it has no brake-lights (just like 99.99% of other Dutch bikes).

      To keep it simple, I just bought and installed an e-bike headlight (6vdc), wiring it into the TSDZ2's light-circuit.

      And for the rear-light, I discovered something handy: First--let me just say I'm not a fan of throw-away batteries. They're like nasty little pollution-pills, wrapped in excess packaging. Plus, throw-away batteries are disappointment postponed. Replace them and replace them--you'll still wind up in the end with another damn dead battery. Not much to like about them--if you ask me.

      So--encountering taillights with throw-away batteries in them (my own bikes, my kids' bikes, my ex's, etc), I typically remove the battery-powered lights, and try to replace them with dynamo-lights. Over the years, I've collected a decent box-full---and mind you, I've recycled all their old dead batteries--no worries.

      One of them, had indications (vestiges from another model-line more than likely) that it might've been manufactured in other versions--perhaps a generator-version... So, I just tested it out with the TSDZ2's light-circuit--and lo-and-behold, it worked. No issues whatsoever. Soldered the wires in--bolted it on--done deal.

      The L-rack/baker's rack on the front is new too, and I replaced the ring-lock with an Axa Defender, with the plug-in chain. Here in The Netherlands, it's simple: You don't have to have the best bike-lock in the world--you just have to make sure your bike is locked up better than the one next to it.

      I made the full-bike "finished" pic (above) last night.

      But then--realized I just had to rig up a chain-guard. Just had to.

      So I did. I cut an old bakfiets chain-guard to fit, and rolled the ragged-edges I'd made under. I actually think it turned out pretty nice. (second pic is before I got the oily-rag onto the chain-guard, and fine-tuned the fit)

      Backstory and motivation:

      The Giant Mio (that I'd previously converted) well, I discovered to my dismay that it has some cracks in the chainstays. Both sides, almost all the way through, just at the forward-edge of the kickstand mounting-pad, radiating upward from below (only a tiny bit of metal left).

      Needless to say, I'd call that unsafe to ride.

      I'd bought that bike new with my ex--and the frame should have a lifetime guarantee--and my ex and I will just have to see how that plays out.

      But clearly--urgent action was required...

      So--that's the backstory--and that's where the kit came from. It's not new--it's the one from the Mio. And now it's on the Limit Xalina.

      "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle". All three at play, multiple times over... Do I win a prize?

      All the best, everyone,

      Last edited by tklop; 09-19-2020, 10:47 PM.


      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        Though not the fanciest, I consider this to be actually the best bicycle (two-wheeler) conversion I've done so far.

        Its simplicity, along with its strong, stiff, and solidly welded steel frame made it (in my opinion) an ideal conversion candidate.

        And--well--it turned out to be pretty much exactly that. Ideal. The kit fit like a glove.

        I'd planned to do this with the "freebie bike" anyway. Having a smaller-size frame, this rusty little gem was going to be my "loaner e-bike"... but it wasn't an urgent project--just one of those "whenever I get around to it" things... That is--until I discovered the cracks on the Mio!

        It's lucky I had it pretty much waiting-in-the-wings. Now it's my ex's Mio Replacement!

        And even though I really do love the way the bike turned out, I don't really have to be jealous. I can visit it pretty much whenever I like!
        Last edited by tklop; 09-19-2020, 09:03 AM.

      What a great little find! Another noble ride saved from a tragic end. Well done!



      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks, Jose!

      Update to the Main Project...

      On the 4KW Cyclone mid-motor, the waterproof-connector burnt a contact, so I hacked the connectors off, and soldered in wire-sections to replace it. This wire now has multiple splices along its length, but ultimately is more reliable than ever.

      I've been enjoying having multiple controls on my switch-panel.

      Most frequently, I use the PAS on/off, next would be the Throttle-Link (either throttle controls both front-and-rear systems when "on"), and the Cruise-Control Set (which only applies to the front-motors).

      What I've found, is that the PAS actually works one heck of a lot better with my 3WD system . Both my Suring direct-drive front-wheel hub-motors are also powered by Cyclone controllers (40A bluetooth-versions, while of course the mid-drive's is the 60A bluetooth version).

      I generally get rolling on the throttles before switching the PAS on. More control--less lurch--preferable.

      And no mistake--for the 4KW mid-drive, the PAS still comes on way too hard--but here's the thing: Those DD front-motors kick in just ahead of the mid-drive, which essentially unloads it--just enough--so while the Cyclone still tries to come on really hard, the end-result is that the previous chain-busting "kick" is transformed into more or less a "shove". In this way, the PAS can even be used from a dead-stop (though not recommended). Okay, sure--multiple motor systems aren't for everybody. But the PAS also acts as another "preset" cruise-control speed--which handily enough (in 3rd--my top gear) comes out to just about 30 kph--a speed which I find to be a nearly ideal traffic-free, smooth, open-road/bike-path commuting-speed--just under the exponentially rising wind-resistance.battery-drain curve, while maintaining plenty of reaction-time...

      I guess I could've just said, "Cyclone Controllers' PAS isn't actually useless anymore--with AWD systems".

      Anyways... I rode that Limit Xalina (post 112) to my ex--and collected her other (nearly busted) e-bike--another of my earlier conversion-bikes--and rode it back home again from my ex's...

      It's the Batavus Yakima which had the Suring front-wheel hub-motor (Sondors type system). All the chains, sprockets, derailleurs--all are grimy and the freewheel doesn't freewheel--and the chain falls off--and yeah... It's still a decent bike, but it's just not so terribly rideable anymore.

      My ex being currently happy with her current assortment of bikes will not be needing this one back any time soon, but I do intend to rebuild it.

      Not sure whether to stick with the front-wheel geared-hub motor that's on it already, and just redo all the other parts--or if I want to do another mid-drive.

      I'm thinking of putting another of those TSDZ2 mid-motors on it--such a simple install, hassle-free, quiet, reliable (in my experience). adequate assist--though not crazy--they're also not as murderous to bike-components as many more-potent mid-drives tend to be (I've only ever bought the 48V 750W [peak] versions--and with the exception of the speed-limit, I've run them all at factory-settings).

      But it's not urgent just yet. I need a workspace. My living room is less than ideal.

      Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine. Oh, yeah--and another thing: Whine!

      More to follow--I'm sure...
      Last edited by tklop; 09-20-2020, 08:41 AM.


      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        Regarding the Batavus Yakima I'd previously converted to a front-wheel geared-hub motor:

        When initially attempting that conversion, I'd wanted to do a mid-drive.

        Unfortunately (at the time) I mangled the bottom-bracket bearing-cups. Since then, I've learned (and adapted) a super-easy way to keep that from happening.

        That wasn't all though--I also managed to strip out the internal-threading on the right-side crank-arm, so the puller couldn't get that one off either. Needless to say, things were less than ideal--when I pieced it together with the front-wheel conversion--back then. But time was of the essence--and so I just did my best--and got the bike to her.

        But since that time, pretty much everything that moves finished wearing out (except the front-wheel hub motor).

        So--yeah... Now it's here...

        And there was that matter of the bottom-bracket removal. No matter what my plans, the old one was effin' toast--and had to be replaced regardless.

        But to get that out--that stripped-out crank-arm still had to come off.

        The whole time this bike was at my ex's I was trying to contemplate how the heck I was going to get it apart--but after it was in front of me, it didn't take too long to form a plan.

        I used a drill to basically perforate and weaken the crank-arm, by removing metal from the bottom beginning from the corner where the the square-drive axle engaged, and on through to the outside. A few holes were drilled, a couple angles.

        Next, I used an electric hammer-drill/roto-hammer and a chisel-bit, to buzz my way through the metal. Though pretty loud, the tool sliced thru the aluminum like butter. Only took a second or so, and the crank-arm was loose.

        From there, it was just a matter of hammering-out the bad bottom-bracket, and cutting out the remaining plastic shell-remnants.

        Once that was done, it was apparent the TSDZ2 wouldn't fit as-is. The cables are routed over a channelled plate which is mounted to the bottom of the bottom-bracket, and the assembly is just too thick to fit. I'm not sure if I want to redo and reroute the shifter and and brake cables, when the bike has a decent motor on it already.

        The easy option will just be to replace the bottom-bracket bearing, get new cranks, sprockets, rear-cassette and chain, along with the cosmetic bits--and it'll be as good as new.

        I think that's what I'll do with it--but again. No rush. So there might not be an update on this particular project-bike for awhile.
        Last edited by tklop; 10-02-2020, 11:04 AM.

      Sweet description on using combined PAS in your application. As always, the joyous experiment continues!



      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment

        A couple-things I've discovered with my own AWD system have actually solved some of others' common issues:

        Many people who've tried to use two identical motors front and rear run into situations where the two systems compete (front pulls, then rear pushes, then front pulls). Because the front-wheel is the one that turns left and right, it'll always be "wandering" slightly in its path. Essentially, this means the front-wheel is actually taking a slightly longer (sort-of wobbly) path, when compared to the rear. If using two identical motors, this can result in a mildly-annoying wrestling-match as the motors take turns doing the majority of the work.

        Though my project has three wheels, not two--the same exact situation would apply. But my experience has shown that using two completely different types of motors--(direct-drive for the front-wheels, mid-motor for the rear), eliminates that issue. With each system (front and rear) set to slightly unload the other--the effect is steady, smooth, and stable.

        Of course my bakfiets' heavy-end is the front--and in that system, there's two front-motors----not just one, like a regular bicycle would have. So for a two-wheeler, the proportions of power-balance between front and rear systems would need to be set up differently than on the bakfiets--for the sake of stability and control.

        I've considered experimenting with putting one of my Suring geared-hub motors (Sondors type systems) into the front-wheel of my TSDZ2-powered city-bike, just to see how that goes--but for a street-bike, unless deliciously hard-acceleration is needed, I'm not so convinced it'll be that much of an advantage. Mostly, I expect it'd amount to just an extra battery-drain.

        But I am tempted to do a super-nasty off-road mountain-bike type conversion at some point--and I'm intrigued to play with this idea further--and make it into a 2WD monster.

        I've been following your Cannondale project, Jose--and it's pretty sweet...

        I'm considering rescuing a discarded mountain-bike from Big Trash Day at some point, to see what I can come up with. Don't know if I'll luck out or not--but I'd like to find a steel mtn/hybrid frame (preferably non-suspension), with fittings for disc-brakes. That'd be a good starting-point.

        I'd like to do a Cyclone mid-drive--for the industrial-grade endurance, and the delicious raw power--but with another of those Suring DD wheel-hub motors fitted into its front-wheel. I'd begin by optimizing the Cyclone Mid-Drive's settings, then adjust the Suring motor's Cyclone controller for maximum compatibility.

        I'd likely do the same as with my bakfiets--regarding PAS, as well as the splitting and combining of the throttles' signal-legs, Cruise-Control, etc. Shoot--maybe I'll even build another little waterproof switch-console!

        Electronic-braking on the front-wheel is also a plus.

        I don't know, DaHose ... I know your Cannondale is pretty-much perfected...

        But what if you could set up a 2nd (alternate) DD powered front-wheel, all wired up--ready to drop into place? A second Quick-Disconnect plug on the battery--to feed the second controller... Quick-Disconnects for the controller-connections would be simple too: Power Switch, Throttle, PAS and Cruise and Low Brake--all share common (-) Neg/Ground--and that's already supplied by your battery-connection. Throttle and PAS share a common (+) 5VDC. One controller's Low Brake Signal can supply the "stop" signal to both controllers.

        This means you don't need to splice all the wires--only the non-redundant ones. Your sensors and controls only need to be "fed" their (+)5VDC by one controller (your mid-drive controller). It is only their "signal" legs which need to be shared. So, the only wires which will need to go to the 2nd-controller, will be the "Signal" (green) legs from both PAS and Throttle, the (system-voltage) (+) for your Power Switch, and the Low-Brake Signal-leg (for Cyclone kits it's the grey one--I think). That's only four total control-wires. Shoot--those four wires could even be combined into a single QD connector--if so desired.

        It seems to me it all could be pretty simply and cleanly set up. If it's a "configuration change"--there's no need for all my extra switches; no need for a second-throttle--none of that--if you'd intend to just leave them linked. The controls you've already got can operate both systems just fine.

        I also wonder: Would it be possible (or practical) to just set up an entire complete second fork, with the DD wheel installed, suspension tuned and all ready to go? Maybe even the 2nd controller could be pre-mounted to the alternate fork... I dunno... Maybe a wheel-swap and suspension-tuning is easier than a fork-swap. I'm just dreaming of possibilities over here...

        And besides--I don't need to go around messing up your project! Just saying... You'd still have the Super-Cannondale--you'd just also have a drop-in mod--to unleash the Tree-Climbing Super-Cannondale!

        All the best, Jose!
        Last edited by tklop; 09-21-2020, 01:36 AM.

      Winter storm. Snow. Ice. 3WD bakfiets--for the win.

      The "Speed Limit" setting is ideal for snow and ice (just as it was for off-road on marginal surfaces). I can even combine it with cruise-control, and just roll right through everything.

      If I had any friends, they could film me in action--but sorry. No pics, no vids--just my word.

      My bakfiets just got another legit reason to be the number one favorite car I've ever owned.

      All the best,



      • calfee20
        calfee20 commented
        Editing a comment
        Good to hear from you again.

      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks, calfee20

      Braving a Norway winter day on a Bakfiets. Gotta admire your commitment!



      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks, Jose!

        Went back out...

        Picked up the kids from school, strapped one of their bikes to the side...


        Sure footed...

        Spent the afternoon with the ex and my kids--had dinner too. Was nice...

        Then bakfietsed my way back home again. All in all, it was about 17 kilometers--mostly on unsalted bike-paths.

        Refrozen wheel-snatching ruts? No problem.

        Five inches of fresh snow? No problem.

        Easy steady pace, firm grip on the bars, no problem.

        All three motors use Cyclone controllers--so the programming is super-duper easy--and all three were set to the same "percentage-of-total" speed-limit... I can't remember what I had the "Speed Limit" set to--but it turns out to be just about perfect for the snowy surfaces (I'm guessing it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 13 to 15 kph or so).

        I love, love, love, love, LOVE this machine!
        Last edited by tklop; 02-08-2021, 02:13 PM.

      I think I wanna find an old (but not yet leaky) paddle-wheel boat--and drop a 4KW Cyclone into it... Doesn't that just sound like fun? Ditch the freewheels--rig the "reverse" switch--and heck yeah! Super-maneuverable--no longer exhausting--thus even more fun than ever little e-paddle-boat...

      Wait... How come Luna doesn't offer one yet?

      Oh, well... If the madness ever manifests--you'll all be the first to know!

      All the best, fellow mad inventor people!

      Take care



      • 73Eldo
        73Eldo commented
        Editing a comment
        Paddle boats often seem to suffer from no gearing so it may take some testing to figure out how to gear a cyclone but it does seem like a fun idea.

      Interesting idea, but a little paddleboat could just use a trolling motor instead. If we are going mad scientist, I think you would need to rig together a 100mm jet drive.



        Latest Conversion...

        Union Flamingo 6sp.

        Used bike: 35 Euros

        New tires (Schwalbe Marathon GT Tour 37-622 with new tubes), new jacket/skirt protectors, rear reflector and rear taillight lens (all three might as well have been NOS), new Union headlight, new "snelbinders" (elastic cargo-strap), new front-wheel mud-flap. Total parts cost: +/- 150 Euros.

        Some Self-Solves:

        I took an old LED fender-mount light, removed its guts, and used them to convert the original Union incandescent taillight to LED--to run off the TSDZ2's light-circuit (rear light visibility wasn't just matched, it was actually enhanced).

        I took an aluminum clamp-on style water-bottle holder, and adapted it to work as a new chain-guard support (yes--the newest TSDZ2 versions allow for some lateral adjustment of the motor--potentially allowing for reuse of original chain-guard brackets--but this motor was purchased before that update--so yeah. I think it turned out pretty beautifully myself).

        TSDZ2 48V 750W Mid-Drive kit 294 Euros (total price, taxes, shipping, etc).

        48V GTK (Uncle Ali) Lithium Ion battery 14 AH 285 Euros (total price, taxes, shipping, etc).

        This is my most satisfying bicycle conversion so far. The bike rides like the wind; and is practically silent. Its double-braced steel frame provides excellent rigidity. The seatpost battery position is directly beneath the rider, and maintains the bike's original balance perfectly. The bike rides like a dream-and it feels as sure-footed as a train on rails.

        Yes, this bike is in the neighborhood of "as old as I am"... That's a strong selling point, imo. If taken care of, this bike will also likely outlive me. This bike will certainly outlive the tens of thousands of miles available from its TSDZ2 mid-motor, and its battery... It is likely that if properly maintained, this bike will outlast many if not all its e-bike components--outlive many "reconversions" --whole new mid drive kits... Maybe it'll sport some mid-drive which have yet to come to market. Who knows what may occur as the decades fly by?


        Durability is my friend... I guess that goes without saying.

        And for under eight-hundred euros, I've got a nice, but not-so-stealworthy bike that outperforms bikes here that sell for the price of nice used cars.

        Did you notice? Drum brakes! *Choirs of angels sing*

        Good luck with your projects everybody!

        take care,


        Click image for larger version  Name:	0_IMAG0331.jpg Views:	0 Size:	882.0 KB ID:	131241 Click image for larger version  Name:	16252999193825515620362770499007.jpg Views:	0 Size:	0 ID:	131240

        Click image for larger version  Name:	IMAG0326.jpg Views:	0 Size:	2.48 MB ID:	131195 Click image for larger version  Name:	IMAG0325.jpg Views:	0 Size:	2.58 MB ID:	131196 Click image for larger version  Name:	IMAG0324.jpg Views:	0 Size:	2.72 MB ID:	131197 Click image for larger version  Name:	IMAG0323.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.52 MB ID:	131198
        Attached Files
        Last edited by tklop; 07-04-2021, 02:57 AM. Reason: to add pic


        • calfee20
          calfee20 commented
          Editing a comment
          Looks good!

        • tklop
          tklop commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks! I have a few finishing touches I'd like to accomplish, but yeah. I'm very pleased so far!