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Bakfiets earns its flames!

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  • tklop
    You know what would be an amazingly awesome project?

    I'm thinking a 4KW Cyclone--to power one of those old pedal-boats. Ditch the freewheel--and just direct-drive it. After all--you gotta have reverse!

    I live in an apartment. I would have no place to park one--even if I wanted to try such madness... You'd not be exactly fast--even with 4 to 6 horsepower available to you (depending upon system voltage)--but it'd be loads of fun!

    I've got my battery inside a Pelican Storm series hard-shell equipment case. It's waterproof--airtight if I close the valve. Short of a full-on capsize, I'm sure I could power such a thing safely...

    But I've got to wonder (having not yet looked) if anyone else has had the crazy notion!

    I dreamt the other day I had merged one of those inflatable-pontoon-style boats with my bakfiets--and had turned the machine amphibious.

    I had used a compressed air-cylinder (refillable at any gas-station) for rapid pontoon-inflation.

    I'd set it up to not ride too low--idea being to minimize water contact with electrical components--pretty much floating (with rider) only just about spokes-deep (tire and rim in the water). In my dream, the beast was indeed moveable, and maneuverable--but only barely. The tires seemed to froth the water up more than anything else (pretty much what I'd expect)... Sometimes my dreams are frightfully realistic!

    On awakening, I reconsidered the design. Instead of attatching the pontoons to the bakfiets, I imagined a drive-in version. When parked in the middle of the boat, each wheel would sit on a pair of rollers (like you'd have under the wheels of a car for an emmissions test, or horsepower test etc.). These rollers would be linked by chain to a paddle-wheel; meaning each of the bakfiets' three wheels would have it's own paddle-wheel to turn.

    The controls would need to be modified, to allow separate actuation of the front-wheel motors. In order to gain full maneuverability, each front-motor would need to be able to operate both forward and reverse--also opposite directions from each-other simultaneously.

    The rear-wheel's controls could still remain "forward-only" --but the rear-wheel's paddle could also be made much larger (or with broader paddles) to be able to take full advantage of the Cyclone's higher power-output.

    With the right support and rigging, the rear-frame could still be allowed to move side-to-side for additional steering control, though it'd mean my weight (the rider's weight) would shift side-to-side as well. While this leaning would be to the inside of the turn, that's worth considering...

    At any rate, this more-thought-through (because I was awake) kind-of amphibious drive-system would leave the bakfiets sitting higher-up--so a little tilting to one side wouldn't be such a big deal. Riding higher would probably require bigger pontoons--in order to make sure there's enough stability... But I think it'd work a lot better this way than the way it did in the dream.

    I'm still thinking compressed-air inflation would be the way to go--but have the pontoon-boat collapsed down, with some removeable wheels under it--turn the boat into a trailer. Get to the lakeshore, unhitch, unfold, drive on, and sail away! If only I had the disposable income to work with, I honestly do think I could design something stable enough for use around the canals of The Netherlands... If I one day do so--I'll be certainly posting about it here!

    But anyways--it was that dream--and the subsequent contemplation--that lead to the Cyclone-powered recreational pedal-boat idea...

    Imagination is fun!
    Last edited by tklop; 5 days ago.

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  • tklop
    Update on the DD motors...

    I got them, and hooked one up to one of the 45A controllers I've got, with LCD3 displays--the "default" setup--and everything was groovy.

    When ordering the motors from Suring, I'd also ordered a set of Cyclone 40A Bluetooth controllers from Paco--at Cyclone-TW to try and run the motors (Paco was able to easily verify compatibility for me)... I'll explain why I wanted those Cyclone controllers further down the page in a minute...

    Anyways--when I went to hook up one of the Cyclone controllers, I got a bit ahead of myself.

    Without double-checking the wiring diagram (long-ago bookmarked by me, a million-times seen--even posted recently in a reply to someone else's inquiry ) --yes--without ever double-checking it, I hooked the "Red" wire from the "multi" JST plug off the Cyclone controller--to the "Red" power-lead for the Hall Sensor/Temp Sensor circuit... Duh...

    (to any that may not understand why, "Duh..." ----well, here goes: When I powered the controller on, it supplied Full 48VDC Battery Voltage to the Hall Sensors' circuit--rather than the nice-and-friendly 5VDC source it was meant to be connected to. The correct wire to have connected--was the yellow one, with green stripe--a fact easily and simply discerned by double-checking the wiring diagram).

    Since the motor didn't seem to work on the Cyclone controller (unaware that was because I'd already broken it), I disconnected it--and pretty much didn't think about the "alternate" controller option anymore. I thought, "Well, if it works with those KT-LCD3's--and the 45A controllers--then good enough"...

    So, still not yet realizing my wiring-mistake (nor for that matter which motor was which--after all, I'd bought two)--I then re-tested the 1st motor, with the KT-LCD3 controller (thinking it was the second-motor)--and well--of course it still worked. So, immersed in a crisis-of-perception, I figured--"all is well" (though unbeknownst to me--it most certainly wasn't).

    And so off the motors went to the wheel-builder...

    When I got them back I tested them--well lo and behold, one of 'em didn't work.

    Still clueless that I'd fried one of their hall-sensors, I was at a loss--and contacted the manufacturer for advice.

    Suring (an AliExpress vendor--my only motor-vendor to this point--actually)---was quite helpful, and ran through various troubleshooting procedures, suggesting various combinations of hall sensor wires and phase wires... We went back and forth several times--over the course of a few days' troubleshooting (across the vast time-zone differences)... Evenutally, it did appear to be a hall-sensor issue--though he was at a loss as to how that could be possible. He'd tested everything thoroughly before shipping them out...

    The vendor sent to me (free--also without postage costs) a nice "e-bike tester" --a snazzy little device for testing both BLDC motors and controllers circuitry--specifically Motor Hall Sensor and Phase connections; Controller Hall Sensor and Phase connections; and includes a Hall-Sensor Type Throttle Tester and E-brake circuit tester. The phase-wires each have color-coded shielded alligator-clips for connections, while the hall-sensor connections are "Sondors" standard--as are the Throttle connections (the wires could be switched-around to test Cyclone-type throttles). Tester runs on a 9V battery. Maybe I'll remember to get a picture of the tester... The vendor also included three new assembled Hall Sensor circuit-cards, as well as nine loose Hall Sensors.

    Sure enough, the tester verified that I had no working "blue-wire" Hall Sensor.

    Per online advice, I removed the old Hall Sensor circuit-card, swapped over the soldered connections, and glued the new one in place.

    I do apologize--I know--I'm lame--didn't get a bunch of pictures of the repair. I have trouble uploading them in reasonable sizes...

    The motor worked fine upon reassembly--with the Sondor-style controllers and displays...

    It was only then--when I decided once again, to try and bust out those Cyclone controllers, that I began to question myself--and slowly begin to realize what happened...

    Once I looked back at that wiring-diagram again (for the umpteen millionth time)--there it was... The brightest-colored effin' wire on that whole sheet--is the wire I failed to connect correctly! Immediately, my crisis-of-perception was averted.

    It was kind-of a pain to temp-wire up all the connections, but eventually I succeeded... Further, I had to swap out the Green and Yellow Phase-wires to get the Cyclone to turn the wheel. Even though it's default rotation was backwards, I knew how to correct that--and best of all--I knew it was alive! :-)

    As soon as the testing was successful on the Cyclone controller, I wrote back to the vendor--to explain what happened--that the mystery was solved, and that it was 100% my own darn faut. I told him I'd be more than happy to pay for the items he sent... And you know what? He just told me, "Thanks for being honest--but don't worry. What is important, is that your motor is working now! [Smile}." Now... I do realize that maybe this vendor is special--but it must be stated: Some Chinese vendors offer incredible post-purchase support. Suring motors--is certainly one of them.

    Oh, yeah... Now--why the Cyclone controllers? Functionality. Options--and no need for a vulnarable display. The Cyclone's BT controller gives me lots of configurability. Even all the speed-related features actually work with a DD--whereas they're useless with a multi-gear mid-drive.

    I can have a switch for Reverse-gear (and I can set a reduced reverse-gear speed-limit--so I'm less likely to get run over by my own bakfiets).

    I can have Regen and E-braking (strength of e-braking also programmable)

    I can have a switch for activating a preset speed-limit (another speed-dependent feature that works more effectively with DD motors).

    I can have my 3-speed switch too--and still enjoy up to 10% "overspeed" (and it makes an awesome almost "Airwolf"-like sound when it kicks in).

    I can have a switch to turn my PAS on and off

    I can have a momentary button for manual cruise-control (and I can use this separately or in combination with the Automatic Cruise Control feature).

    I can set many parameters inside the controller, such as "Soft Start" and "Fast Start"

    I'm going to end up with so many switches it'll start looking like an airplane! I kind-of like that. :-) Wait until you see what I'm going to do to mount them all...
    So--yeah... I think I do want to power them with the Cyclone controllers...

    But there's one thing... One thing missing... Temp-sensing. The motors have temp-sensors. I ordered them that way--because I want to be able to monitor and protect them from (prolonged) overheating.

    I know that those controllers have a temp-sensor inside. The controller's temp is displayed in the app... But in the App Video--it shows also "Motor Temp" in their app... In any case, I've obviously got no "temp sensor" wire coming out of the controller-housing... If I open up the controller, and look for its own temp-sensor, its circuit-path may lead to a solder-point for an external (motor) temp-sensor--or maybe it won't... And really--do I want my controller sensing it anyway? What that would mean, is that I'd need the YY app open to see my motor-temps. And part of the advantage of Cyclone--was "displayless" --so... Yeah... Not sure that's the answer anyway.

    But--what then? I don't need (and don't want to buy) a trio of Cycle Analysts... I'd rather just set up simple Motor Temp gauges... But how then? Not sure... I'll need to think about it...

    [EDIT--Insertion; Author has done as he said--and thought about it]

    That might be the thing. Looks as it it'll work with multiple temp-ranges of sensors... So--it ought to do the trick! --but then, I'm not really that confident--so I've messaged the vendor. We'll see...

    I don't want any display at all, but if I do have to be stuck with one, that thing isn't too hideous or gigantic. No, I don't dig the green backlight--but I can't complain--it doesn't come on unless you press the button--and then, it only stays on for 2 seconds. I'm actually pretty cool with that--even AZ guy probably couldn't hate on it too hard! ;-)

    I like that you can set your own preset "alarm" temperatures. My manufacturer's advice, is to keep the motors from exceeding 120 degrees Celsius for more than 20 minutes---and in no case, to let them exceed 129 degrees Celsius. I can set that meter to flash it's little triangle at me, whenever I exceed 120 degrees Celsius--and oh, yeah--I also like that it's not going to SCREAM its warning at me; a visual notification is adequate.

    I won't have any "auto-shutdown" protection to keep me below 130 degrees Celsius. I'll have to utilize my brains if I want that feature.

    [END EDIT]

    I've used my old bakfiets front-frame as a test-stand for the DD motors--so they can both turn together (off the same throttle, etc).

    Test Stand Observations: Though the speed-settings in the Cyclone system cannot be calibrated with my test-stand setup, and therefore the numbers displayed in the app aren't reliable at this stage--I can certainly tell that the Cyclone delivers a higher "unloaded" top-speed / peak RPM when compared with the "stock" Sondors-style controllers with KT-LCD3 displays. When calibrated to 20 inch wheel-size, the Sondors-style systems' displays indicate about a 25 kmh unloaded top-speed (ordered the motors that way--wound for high-torque, lower max RPM). With my Super Moto-X tires, my effective wheel-size works out being much closer to 23 or 24 inches when all is said and done. In any case, I'm not sure just how much--but between the two systems, there's a notable difference in speed which is observable to the eye, and the elevation in comparative sound/tone is significant--and clearly audible--from the Cyclone--vs. the Sondors-style controller and display. Though I can't say for sure by how much, I can definitively say the Cyclone 40A controller is turning the DD motors faster--by default. I believe with that additional "10% Overspeed" available (via my 3-Speed Switch's High-Speed setting), I should get plenty of performance from my modest little 1500W DD motors.

    There will be more to follow...

    [edit] added 1/19/2020

    Current dashboard is a chaotic mess...

    I've got the Cyclone switched on and off via the keyed switch, while the twin Suring motors with their Sondors-style control systems switch on and off via their displays (or simultaneously via thier mutually-shared dongle). The clunky combo-switch (three-speed/cruise-control -- or more accurately turn-signal/horn/headlight switch thusly repurposed) --the clunky beast is still in use--and I've a handle-bar mounted switch to turn the PAS on and off for the Cyclone...

    Now that I'm going with three Cyclone controllers, I will actually need MORE darn switches--but this also presents the opportunity to consolidate.

    The displays (thankfully) will go.

    I do have an On/Off/On switch I can use to replace the hideous 3-way switch. I will hook all three systems to it--and if the Cyclone4K continues to suck with overspeed--I'll just turn the "overspeed" off for that controller--no big deal.

    But in any case, I intend to link the controllers' circuits wherever appropriate.

    Obviously, only one "Low Brake" signal need be sent to each controller.

    Only the "Signal" lead from both Throttle and PAS is needed to control multiple systems--the sensors need only be powered via the + and - from one controller.

    But the thing is--I do like having a separate throttle for the front-motors--so realistically, that one will only be split two-ways (for both front-motors) while the PAS can be split three-ways.

    A good reason to keep the throttles separate, has to do with the "Reverse" switch. My front-motors will "back up" while the 4KW Cyclone mid-motor cannot. If I were to tie the throttles together, I'd need to also hook up the "Reverse" switch for the Cyclone 4KW (even though all it would do is freewheel). Otherwise, applying the throttle would be sending the front-motors backwards, while the Cyclone pushed forwards.

    But sometimes, maybe I'll want more configurability. For example, I may wish to have two separate PAS on/off switches--so I can choose to operate either front or rear system "Throttle Only" wherever and whenever I choose.

    I may be able to adjust the settings in the app--so that speed-sensitive features like the Speed Limiter will actually work similarly between the two systems--and if so, that's another switch that could be shared.

    And I think I'd like to link all three controllers to the same keyed power-switch.

    And... I still need to solder up my 200A battery-switch...

    But bit-by-bit I'm refining... Sure... I've even said it myself--even in this very thread, I'm sure... It's a heck of a lot easier doing something "right" the first time--but then--there's (potentially) even more value, in following a learning-curve. I think you get a broader more systemic view through trials and errors...

    Or maybe I'm trying to make myself feel better about the occasional wasted dollar...

    Either way--this project isn't "done". Rather, I completely expect it will continue to evolve...

    But as it does, it keeps on getting closer and closer to how I want it!

    More to follow

    [edit: Insert Picture Below]

    Click image for larger version  Name:	15795216908332275027984261278417.jpg Views:	0 Size:	2.68 MB ID:	100147
    Last edited by tklop; 4 days ago.

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  • tklop
    Something from the Commuter Lights thread had me thinking... Oh, no--not again, right? I know--I know...

    But here's the thing: I have the Bluetooth speaker-system on the bakfiets, and it'd be really cool if I could set up some various audio-clips--to amuse myself, to terrify dogs--whatever the case may be...

    I'm wondering if there's some kind of an app (a free one)--where you can load in your own sound-effects or clips, and activate them in such a way. Using the Bluetooth for the audio-output achieves my goal--if such a thing exists... Simple interface--maybe four different buttons--one sound per... I dunno...

    It'd be like a modern take on the classic "trick horn" ---only yeah... I want snarling lions. I want Ride of the Valkyries. I want shrieking demons. I'm not sure what else just yet!


    This is what happens when I start thinking.
    Last edited by tklop; 11-20-2019, 01:21 AM.

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  • tklop
    commented on 's reply
    From what I can gather, the following things seem to be true when it comes to regen--in bikes anyway:

    We've got two separate things gong on, "Regen" and "E-braking"

    From what I gather, regen--is binary; it's either on, or it's off--and on its own, regen doesn't provide much braking help--not much rotational resistance at all.

    And it's my understanding that electric braking forces don't help regen at all, but actually consume battery-power--reducing the effectiveness of regen with each progressively stronger setting.

    If those assumptions are correct, I believe I will be able to recover more energy than average, for a couple reasons:

    1) I have two-wheels working together. Logically, I'd assume that at any given rotational speed, I should be getting double the regen--with two wheels regen-ing--as opposed to only one.

    2) I have a lot more inertia to work with--which means I can brake earlier--increasing the length and duration of coasting/braking regen-periods. By taking longer to stop, I expect greater energy-recovery results.

    Now---if it turns out I'm wrong--and none of that matters at all, and I only get what most users are recovering--that is to say between 5% and 10% generally speaking--I'll still be totally happy with that.

    I've just got the feeling I'm gonna do a little better.
    Last edited by tklop; 11-13-2019, 11:07 PM.

  • tklop
    Got the DD hub-motors dropped off for building today. When they're done, I'll still need to swap controllers in order to make the install work. I might also need to swap to another type mechanical disc-brake-caliper (ain't much clearance on the wheel-side of the disc)... I'll have to see how tight it is--perhaps swapping the DD motors' screws for a style with a lower-profile head (round-head, or pan-head might work better) --if lucky, perhaps that might be enough... With every advancement comes new hurdles--naturally.

    DD motors will mean another slight improvement in terms of stability. They're heavier. More weight at the wheel-axles, shifts the center-of-mass lower (even if only slightly). Every little bit helps.

    I have tried to imagine ways for further lowering the center-of-mass. Perhaps I could do a floor-battery----that is, lay out say 72V and 200AH (or maybe more) worth of LiFePO4 cells--basically covering the plywood floor of the bakfiets--maybe one layer of cells, maybe two--then drop another plywood floor on top--turning it into a plywood-battery-sandwich. Wire it all together, with the BMS in my electronics-bay (under the bench). That'd be pretty awesome.

    Also: Speaking of batteries...

    Since repairing my 2nd suitcase-battery, I've been doing some various runs with it. It too has a Bluetooth interface, but doesn't display speed, or distance, or effieciency--or really anything all that terribly useful. It seems to be doing alright. I can punch both throttles, max-demands from all three systems, and there's no issues at all. The BMS isn't even getting hot. So--yeah... So far, so good.

    I need to really stretch it out one of these days--and see if I can determine what its effective range is (and calculate its "real" versus advertised capacity).

    More to follow--I'm sure.
    Last edited by tklop; 11-13-2019, 10:16 AM.

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  • tklop
    commented on 's reply
    My DD's are 30H which should be less severe than your 45H's (I assume). And the rig is comparable to your trike--maybe a little heavier... But with two of them working together, I do expect the braking could be quite strong (though I doubt it'd be a linear comparison--when added together, that's 60H worth of magnets under my cargo box). I requested the motors for high torque, low top speed--maybe that'll also make the e-braking more severe.

    Fortunately, I've got nice heavy bar-stock type steel dropouts--about 1/4" thick steel. I'll get them locked down one way or another!

    I intend to delve into the programming. The controller's programming guide says that the "best regen" setting offers the least e-braking; and as the e-braking incrementally gets stronger, the regen becomes less and less effective. This at least seems to imply, that some sort of double-compromise should be attainable--selecting perhaps the second or third best regen-setting, while being sure I've adequate braking (the discs can take up the task for emergency stops). If the braking isn't too severe, I don't expect it'll cause much overheating either.

    I've found that even with the 350W (which are actually 750W) geared-hub motors---when I've got two motors pulling together, they deliver a heck of a lot of power. I'm hoping at least--that by teaming the front-wheels up, the e-braking force will be similarly enhanced; allowing me to select a fairly soft e-braking setting, and hopefully leaving a semi-decent amount of regen effectiveness. My plan also, is to adjust my riding style--to lengthen my stopping distances; hopefully turning as much of my intertia into regen as possible. I'm eager to experiment.

    If budget constraints allow--I'm going to drop the motors off at the wheel-builder. (short tangent) Being in The Netherlands is pretty awesome. I've got a shop just across town, does nothing but build bicycle wheels... Next-day delivery or pick-up. How cool is that? This place is about as bike-friendly as any place could ever be! You can bring in your own hub, even your own rim--or order from their extensive in-stock warehouse. And--it's so cheap, that I see zero reason to attempt to build my own wheels ever again. Awesome!
    Last edited by tklop; 11-10-2019, 09:36 AM.

  • calfee20
    commented on 's reply
    My trike and my bike have the same 18 fett controller but the trike has a 35mm stator and the bike a 45mm stator. The windings are also slightly different to with the 45mm having a winding for a little more torque. Anyway the 45mm motor has an insane amount of regen "braking" it was almost like slamming on the brakes. I had to go into the programming and tone it down. Both bikes are about 100 pounds, 45 kilos. That will be 350# with me on it.

  • tklop
    commented on 's reply
    I'll see how they do with the stock controllers (KT48ZWSRK-TY01C is the model, rated 22A continuous, 45A peak). What info I can find lists them as sine-wave, but I'll just have to try them out. If they're awfully loud, then a controller upgrade isn't out of the question.

    I'm intrigued to see how they work out too--with regen... I suspect that when it comes to regen, my added intertia (because my machine is so heavy) may mean I get a lot more value from regen than most bikes (which would be featherlight in comparison). If that proves true, and regen proves successful, I may eventually set up a trailer with DD's--using them exclusively for regen and braking. If inertia is my freind--when it comes to regen--then a regen-trailer might actually work quite well--when loaded down (it would obviously be frightfully dangerous to power a trailer).

    Crazy stuff I think about...

    Soon I'll get those wheels built, then give it a try--and then I'll start to get some answers. Speculation is fun--but I want to get to testing!
    Last edited by tklop; 11-10-2019, 12:48 AM.

  • calfee20
    commented on 's reply
    They are very quiet especially if you use a sinewave controller.

  • tklop
    Originally posted by calfee20 View Post
    I have a KMX trike that has 20 inch front wheels. I put a set of Super-motos on it and they are great. You don't need that much pressure either 35-40 psi should be fine.
    I've dropped that PSI--and have ridden for a while that way now. Yep. Better. Much better. Thank you!

    October didn't end up being DD month. Maybe November.

    I hope they're quieter.

    The banshee-wail of the geared-hub motors is a bit much. I love their performance! But the noise sometimes startles the hell out of people--other times clearly annoys.

    I hope they're quieter.

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  • tklop
    A quick note:

    Two more e-bike conversions launched into the world... Both belong to my ex...

    First, a 28-inch wheeled Batavus Yakima--which isn't gonna last a lot longer (due to corrosion mostly). It's a 48V system, with a 15AH LiFePO4 rack-battery, powering a 350W Suring front-wheel hub-motor, with KT-LCD3 display, throttle, and PAS. That's my ex's daily-commuter bike. I wanted to do a TSDZ2 mid-drive, but the bike is in too poor condition for that. When it dies, I can swap the front-wheel hub-motor to her next bike, or convert that next one to a TSDZ2--whatever works out.

    Second, a Giant Mio -- Mamafiets (Mamma-bike). That one is another 48V system--this time with regular Lithium Ion 18650 cells in a fish-battery, powering a 750W TSDZ2 mid-drive. Barely fits. The nature of the frame, means the motor really can't swing forward and up--and in fact, there's no room whatsoever for the rear-support bracket. I've got everything tightened down, and if needed, I can always manufacture a new bracket, or even potentially machine down the existing one until I can make it fit, but for now--I'll just see how it goes.

    More notes may follow on these two builds.

    That makes a total of five bikes I've now made electric (though the thee-wheel-drive bakfiets should almost count as three separate conversions--I've still only counted it as one).

    I'm not a pro at this--and I don't want to be. But I generally satisfied with my results so far.

    Leave a comment:

  • calfee20
    commented on 's reply
    Don't go that far.

  • tklop
    commented on 's reply
    I think the weight-distribution / center-of-gravity data might be interesting to see. The most useful data would be "including rider" --and then perhaps "rider plus cargo" (various configurations, if applicable).

    I'm imagining it might be hard to read the scales when seated. If you leaned and twisted in order to see the dial, you'd affect the readings. Perhaps another human would make that a lot easier... Telescoping mirror maybe--but then the readout would be backwards... Surmountable challenges.

    You could also take weight-measurments with the trike parked along a slope to simulate the weight-distribution while cornering (and if you were really good at math, you could likely extrapolate--though I'd not know where to begin).

    Maybe you're right. Maybe the information would be ultimately impractical, or useless... But yeah--curiosity sometimes demands answers anyway!

    Now I'm going to have to go buy a bathroom-scale myself!

  • calfee20
    commented on 's reply
    You have me thinking now. Maybe I should put a bathroom scale under my tires and see what the weight distribution is. I don't know maybe just more useless information.

  • tklop
    commented on 's reply
    That is a very handsome machine!

    Listen--I'm with you. I love the Super Moto-X's at lower pressures. At 45psi, on my Ryde Andra 40 rims there's nice cushioning, and the control remains crisp and swim-free. They really do ride like a dream at 45 psi. I remember reading your description and initial-review of the tire--which pretty much echoed my own opinion and experience with them. Just like with the Big Ben's, there is still some mild street-noise/vibration, but it's also that texture that lets them work on all kinds of surfaces so well. And my bakfiets, with its powered front-wheels gets just delicious grip with the Super Moto-X's!

    I only mentioned keeping my eyes open--in case new stuff comes along--but I can also say, unequivically, that the Super Moto X's are by far the best tires I've chosen for my project--to date!

    Maybe it's just because my machine is heavier... I'm pretty sure it has a narrower wheel-base than your KMX too... Maybe the geometry, and weight-distribution play a role in how it all behaves--that would make sense to me. But at 45psi, not long after I first installed them (some time last year I think), I had one bottom-out on a pot hole, and it dinged my rim.

    After that, I decided to keep them pumped up to 55psi--and though I've hit more potholes (and a couple curb-cuts too) I've not had any more dinged-rim issues. But riding empty, it's not as nice as it once was at 45 psi.

    If I put an extra load in the box, the tires "squish down" giving me more like that 45 psi-style shock-absorption again (and loaded--the risk of bottoming-out obviously returns). If very heavily-loaded, I won't even mind going up to the max-rating 65 psi--and can enjoy that same stability and shock-absorption--whereas riding heavily-loaded at lower-pressures, it's "swim-city" for sure.

    Due to its heaviness, and the fact that it's a cargo-hauling box-bike, I've felt keeping a bit of extra pressure in there seems sensible--"ready for the next load" --so to speak.

    Now, I've also got to admit--that I'm not religious about tire-pressures. I only do a pre-ride "thumb-sqeeze" pressure-check most of the time. I might put a gauge on them and top them off back up to 55 psi maybe every month or so, but not any more often. So, it may very well be, that I'm riding them closer to 45 or 50 psi--a lot more frequently than I think I am!

    In my way of thinking, a little extra pressure--helps afford me the luxury of not having to be religious about tire-pressures--whereas if I kept them on the low-side, and paid them only cursory attention for a month--they might get too low--and I'd be back to dinging up my rims.

    But you've got me thinking. Perhaps I overcompensated--by going from 45 to 55 psi. I think I will try to drop 5psi--go with 50 for my next few rides--and see if that's still alright. Maybe another 5 psi after that--if all goes well!
    Last edited by tklop; 09-19-2019, 05:34 AM.