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"Edge" 1500W DD hub with 35mm wide stator, thin laminations, aluminum core

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    #46
    Nice looking Bike GW! :D

    Heya! Just got back from work, the motor is in the diamond plate "triangle" right under the saddle, I have the hub-motor as a mid-drive, it has it's own chain separate from the pedal chain in parallel to it. Link the build here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...44997&start=75





    I chopped out the seat tube so I could put the Cro-Motor exactly where I wanted it, and then I wanted to see about testing a MXUS 3000w that I plan on mounting under the seat on my Vision R-40, and I am using the controller that came with the MXUS 3000w, 4T motor, unfortunately Kinaye Motorsports where I bought the controller is down, it's a 18FET 80A/95V Sine Wave Xie Chang Controller so capable of 7600w. Eventually I want to take it to the local track Portland International Raceway for some drag racing when I can afford a 24S 4P LiPo pack (90C Turnigy Nanotechs, or the new Graphite depending what is the better deal, had great luck with the Nanotechs, last pack didn't start loosing serious capacity until after 7 years, and still has about 70% capacity!)

    I wanted to just see how well it worked with both the Cro-Motor and MXUS, as the Lyen controller I was using would no longer program for some reason (I think it might be a software issue with Windows 10) and it was set at about 30A, so I got one from Kinaye, and used my CA V3 to limit amps.

    I haven't gotten the full use of the 72v 11.6 AH Panasonic PF pack I have from Luna, as I haven't re-done the motor mounts, went with a different design this time around, and just need to do some minor tweaks so the clamping "drop-outs" for the motor don't loosen too easy (right now, anything over 40A which is 2880w and I have to re-tighten the chain ever 5 - 10 miles lol!)
    Last edited by LI-ghtcycle; 04-14-2017, 08:51 PM.

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      #47
      Oh, yes the black rectangle on the downtube is the battery, just above the crank, the trailer is just for hauling cargo.

      Comment


        #48
        I was rereading spinningmagnet's article on the edge and he linked to another hub if you didn't need the edge's power. http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-b.../igh-305.html# That hub has a 5 spd Sturmey Archer hub built into it. It almost made me dizzy thinking of all the possibilities. It would be nice to find some one with experience with that hub.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by calfee20 View Post
          I was rereading spinningmagnet's article on the edge and he linked to another hub if you didn't need the edge's power. http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-b.../igh-305.html# That hub has a 5 spd Sturmey Archer hub built into it. It almost made me dizzy thinking of all the possibilities. It would be nice to find some one with experience with that hub.
          That Battery is awesome I am getting ready to leave going to see If I have the time to up the game and do 30 miles
          I will let yall know or no whats up when I get back and hopefully still think Man That battery is awesome
          as far as the other motor that SM mentioned I don't even want to think about it or I will get as dizzy as you
          I mean I want it already a little queasy about all the moving parts but what I do think would be cool
          is you buy that motor a smoking cool dry ice controller and get luna to make a 72v 24ah battery with
          70 amps con. and 100a burst you install it ride it test it and take pictures of it post it up here so we all can
          totally be green with envy and we will have to go and hock something to come up with the dough so we can get one
          see it is starting already
          got to go the hi way calls
          Peace for all of us.
          See icant even make it out the door
          I looked at the specs for that motor we need to put out heads together and crunch the numbers on both motors and
          see who looks best on paper I am game if you are
          I ran some quick numbers and the max rpm un loaded with 72 v is 640.8 but I don't know what gear that would be in
          if that is first gear ya might be ok but if it is in fifth not so good the edge at 58.6v will hit 883 rpm with a hand held laser
          RPM digital gauge chow
          Last edited by Green Werks; 04-16-2017, 04:09 AM.

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            #50
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            {"data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"33034","data-size":"large"} update 41517
            I still think the battery is awesome
            Dudes another run I made the 30 miles
            This time out little to no peddling 96.5% motor
            same chores same four long steep 1/4 mile climbs
            Here is the poop
            started out 58.6v back 54.3v used 4.3 v
            max speed no down hill flat all motor 38.1 ran out of room came to cross road had to stop
            avg speed 13.6
            amps max 50.30
            I really dug the way LI-ghtcycle posted his results so I will be a copy cat
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Green Werks; 04-15-2017, 03:34 PM.

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              #51
              Man I need that whole battery/motor setup so bad it hurts. As per usual GW killer documentation. Dealing with a whole different " elephant in the room " at present time so I gotta make do with what cards I've been dealt. Best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time lol. ( Even if the bites taste like crap). Happy motoring folks, ride on safely!!

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by calfee20 View Post
                I was rereading spinningmagnet's article on the edge and he linked to another hub if you didn't need the edge's power. http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-b.../igh-305.html# That hub has a 5 spd Sturmey Archer hub built into it. It almost made me dizzy thinking of all the possibilities. It would be nice to find some one with experience with that hub.
                Correct me if I am wrong, but that is a very interesting set-up, but as far as I can tell, it's only the pedaling side of that motor with IGH that gains use of the 5 spd Sturmey, NOT the motor, so it is good since it eliminates the need for a derailleur if that is your main concern, but it would be soooo amazing if the motor used those gears too! Then I would have to say it would be the first hub motor used in a wheel that I could love. ; )

                I know Luna has a 2 speed hub that DOES give the motor use of the multiple speeds, but so far I have been much more happy with how a mid-drive balances the bike it's self with-out putting large amounts of weight in a awkward place as a large hub motor will do (makes the bike feel more "top heavy" and requires a heavy duty kickstand much like this one)







                Comment


                  #53
                  I found some more information on that TDCM IGH. It has the thinner laminations.


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                  I also found a new toy. It is an ebike simulator that will calculate power ,speed weight and range scenarios for bike builds. They have a nice database of hub motors, no mid drives though. They don't have the Edge hub in their DB but they do have the 35mm Leaf. Play around with the throttle settings to get desired speeds and you can really see how that effects the range. http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by calfee20 View Post
                    I found some more information on that TDCM IGH. It has the thinner laminations.


                    Click image for larger version

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ID:	33056


                    I also found a new toy. It is an ebike simulator that will calculate power ,speed weight and range scenarios for bike builds. They have a nice database of hub motors, no mid drives though. They don't have the Edge hub in their DB but they do have the 35mm Leaf. Play around with the throttle settings to get desired speeds and you can really see how that effects the range. http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html
                    C20 I looked into this motor and it looks like the gears are for peddling and the motor does not use them
                    that would have been sweet if it did
                    the power out put cant match the edge but it is a nice set up and you don't need a derailer

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Dale H View Post
                      Man I need that whole battery/motor setup so bad it hurts. As per usual GW killer documentation. Dealing with a whole different " elephant in the room " at present time so I gotta make do with what cards I've been dealt. Best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time lol. ( Even if the bites taste like crap). Happy motoring folks, ride on safely!!
                      Dale H you hang in there buddy

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by calfee20 View Post
                        I found some more information on that TDCM IGH. It has the thinner laminations.

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	TDCM-IGH.PNG Views:	1 Size:	139.0 KB ID:	33056



                        I also found a new toy. It is an ebike simulator that will calculate power ,speed weight and range scenarios for bike builds. They have a nice database of hub motors, no mid drives though. They don't have the Edge hub in their DB but they do have the 35mm Leaf. Play around with the throttle settings to get desired speeds and you can really see how that effects the range. http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html
                        Yep! ebikes.ca has a LOT of good info, Justin Le is a great guy, he is the inventor of the Cycle Analyst (CA) that you see so many of us using, it's a very handy tool, I admit though, I wish there was something with some of the features it has with out all of the extra stuff I will never use, it's designed to work with just about anything you can imagine, lets you adjust variable regen on a hub motor, limit amps & volts (the features I use most!) and a number of other things.

                        In that quote about that motor, the reason they are saying it's good for a 20" wheel recumbent, is because having such small wheels limits you in your pedaling gear range, and that motor + IGH allows you to have both in a small package, very nice design, just as it's been said, the motor is a direct drive, and the 9c although a decent motor, it's not the most efficient out there, and the typical electrical connectors aren't the best, I MUCH prefer things like the water resistant connectors you see used on Bafang products, that is quite a nice change from the typical JST and similar bulky connectors used in the average Ebike kit that are very open to allow water and road grime in.

                        These connectors are some of the best I have ever seen on a Ebike kit: (just using this throttle extender cable as an example, it's the connection that I SOOO much prefer to the cheap style in the pic below that is still used on many good Ebike kits, just a small thing that should have been up-graded long ago, I ride in ALL kinds of weather including Ice on occasion, so weather proof is really important to me.)

                        https://lunacycle.com/bafang-throttle-extension-cable/

                        This pic is of the older style JST type connectors and others that have the back-side open to the elements for the most part, not the end of the world, but most of these have to be packed with dielectric grease (back and front!) and of course, using DE grease is just a good idea in general, but the connectors used with Bafang products are just soooo much better for keeping road junk & water from getting inside.)

                        https://lunacycle.com/motors-and-kit...ke-controller/
                        Last edited by LI-ghtcycle; 04-16-2017, 07:55 AM.

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                          #57
                          Update : 41617
                          Another run today rode it to visit my mom in the nursing home she got a kick out of it
                          Sorry no pix today of the CA read out to tired to get the camera out you will have to trust me
                          Started out with 58.6v
                          ended with 54.2
                          used 4.4 volts
                          traveled 30.964 miles
                          16.2 wh/m
                          max amps 50.43 the CA has it limited to 50 amps I might kick it up to 60 amps
                          and see what happens my wh mileage will probably go up
                          the sweet spot seems to be 14 mph taking 100 w of power to maintain that speed on flat ground
                          max speed 28.1
                          avg speed 13.1
                          a lot of hills and a lot of flats
                          I was pretty tired today so it was about 98% motor
                          I don't if I will make the 50 mile thing at this point 30 miles about wears me out
                          Cheers ole Billy
                          Last edited by Green Werks; 04-17-2017, 02:29 AM.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Dudes happy 4/20 day we should dedicate this day to the Mighty Spinning Magnets so it may go down in history
                            of our gratitude for him turning us all on to the mighty
                            Edge 1500x2600w ass wooper

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by Green Werks View Post
                              Update : 41617
                              Another run today rode it to visit my mom in the nursing home she got a kick out of it
                              Sorry no pix today of the CA read out to tired to get the camera out you will have to trust me
                              Started out with 58.6v
                              ended with 54.2
                              used 4.4 volts
                              traveled 30.964 miles
                              16.2 wh/m
                              max amps 50.43 the CA has it limited to 50 amps I might kick it up to 60 amps
                              and see what happens my wh mileage will probably go up
                              the sweet spot seems to be 14 mph taking 100 w of power to maintain that speed on flat ground
                              max speed 28.1
                              avg speed 13.1
                              a lot of hills and a lot of flats
                              I was pretty tired today so it was about 98% motor
                              I don't if I will make the 50 mile thing at this point 30 miles about wears me out
                              Cheers ole Billy
                              I read somewhere that below 12 mph or so there is no appreciable air resistance. That would explain your 14 mph sweet spot. I always assumed a BBSHD would be more efficient than a DD hub but you guys have me wondering.

                              This thread really has me going about adding a DD hub to my mid drive build. At first I thought I would need a steel frame to do the best job, like a Surley Pugsley. Then the other day while riding around town I had such a brain storm I figured out how to do it on my Electra Fat Cruiser. I was so distracted I had gone a couple of miles past where I had intended. This will have to be a mid to end of summer thing.

                              50 miles all at one go would be a bit much for me also. My 11 amp slimline will give me a reliable 25 mile range. For me to do 50 miles I would need, besides a larger battery, To go 25 miles one-way and then take a couple of hour break and head back..............calfee.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                C20 I am totally convinced that the bike will do 50 miles with out really peddling
                                the 14 mph spot seems to be where the motor is just starting to become efficient and that is barely 1/4 throttls
                                and using 100w I know that the electric motors are most effecent
                                when spenning fast but if I run it in that range I am toping 30 mph I don't want to really go that fast
                                but I don't know If I want to beat my self up that much and with as many stops I would have to make
                                it would take all day which I don't mind
                                I think I need to work on comfort control I need to get the handle bars up higher so I am in less of a sport bike crouch and more of a
                                dirt bike straight up position and work on the seat a little then 50 miles might be easier
                                Cheers

                                Comment


                                • calfee20
                                  calfee20 commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  My first real bike after my teens was a Cannondale 12spd racer. Low bars and a skinny seat was fine when you are 20. It didn't take long to get old. Then a Specialized with a gel seat and more upright ride. It wasn't enough, it still hurt my thumbs and neck. Now my cruiser is totally upright with a bigger softer seat but I still need to tweak the handlebars. I find myself gripping the very end so I need at least a hand span more. There is always something.
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