Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Edge 1500 on an Electra Fat

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by tomster View Post
    How is thw Hub DD doin in the hills / mountain?

    I try to find out wich motor makes more sense for me on the Lux Fat 7D...
    Can such a Hubmotor handle Mountains?
    Do they have any torque related regolation or are they only trying to follow the PAS sensor?
    Personally if I had to build an ebike for the mountains I would use a BBSHD and a Rohloff.

    Comment


      #17
      Today I plugged in the Cycle analyst and setup a few basic things like wheel size battery size and miles instead of kilometers. I went for a 13 mile ride after. It is nice to have a speedo and a watt meter after going without for a couple of days.

      This thing really flies but it also sucks up a lot of juice. It will do everything I want with the switch in the low position. On a short stretch with a very small uphill grade it pulled right up to 35 mph and had more than a bit left.
      Next I will wire in the PAS and a brake.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	2017_10_17_15_10_47_ProShot.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	472.9 KB
ID:	48495

      Note the blue butt connector under the chain stay splicing the shift cable. M I C K E Y...........M O U S E That needs to be sung but there are not enough of us that remember the Mickey Mouse Club.


      Comment


      • g725s
        g725s commented
        Editing a comment
        Your reworked Electra Fat 7D with this rear hub drive setup looks great. Your getting pretty good at building and rebuilding these things.

        Are those the stock tires?

      • calfee20
        calfee20 commented
        Editing a comment
        No they are Origin8 Supercells. The 120 TPI versions. I think we talked about them before. One forum member said they have self steering issues but 20 psi takes care of that. I am almost exclusively on pavement so I don't need low pressures for rock hopping. The 20 psi also keeps the contact patch smaller and the bike easier rolling. This bike is quite wasteful wattage wise compared to my standard cruiser with the big apples. The 24 amp battery will still give me a 50 mile range so it is fine by me.

      #18
      Well I added a PAS sensor and hooked up brake. The basic PAS settings on a cycle analyst are giving me a fixed 500 watts. I need to figure out how to improve that. I think it will require another switch and some programing. I don't have the regen working yet. That is another thing to investigate.

      This hub is fast smooth and quiet but the BBSXX is better on big hills. The BBSXX is a much easier installation with fewer wires and the programing is already done.

      Speaking of wires I think I have figured out how I will neaten it up. I am going to move the controller to the front space in the cantilever frame and put the wires into some sort of bag, like an under seat bag.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	2017_10_21_15_11_30_ProShot.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	261.1 KB
ID:	49007

      This picture shows the cycle analyst on the top tube. I had to put it there so the wire from the pas would reach but I like it there now. If I move the controller into the rear of the bag hiding all the wires should be a snap.

      Comment


        #19
        Well I bought an under seat bag and cut the back out of it so the rear of the controller could stick out. The key feature of this bag is the two zippers in the front. I can bring the zippers up and leave an opening at the top for the wires to pas through. This bike is still very much a work in progress.

        Click image for larger version

Name:	2017_11_02_13_56_02_ProShot.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	171.3 KB
ID:	49760

        Comment


          #20
          Here is another photo of the bagged controller.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	2017_11_02_13_55_57_ProShot.jpg Views:	1 Size:	111.4 KB ID:	50178

          That Yellow block is the connector for the phase wires that came from ERT. It is kind of big but it certainly is a positive connection.

          I have two throttles. The right is from Luna and was meant for a Cyclone. I like the ignition switch on it. It is plugged into the controller. The one on the left is from Grin and it is plugged into the Cycle Analyst. You can use one or the other or both at the same time but I think the one that is twisted more is controlling the motor so one or the other is better.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	Aviary Photo_131546195245585023.png Views:	1 Size:	918.4 KB ID:	50179

          I have the two throttles to help me figure out a final configuration and I have to work out proportional regen. Regen will probably involve the right brake lever and the left throttle. I need to upgrade the firmware in the Analyst to get regen working. I'll have the cable in a few days but we have a cold snap coming so testing days will become sparse.

          I have a 3 position switch plugged into the controller and this gives either throttle full control of the motor output. Low is 2200 watts, 2 is 2950 watts, and 3 or high is 3850 watts. This thing really goes and the huge fat tire is killing the acceleration. Greenwerks thinks my readings are high but the controller is rated for 3000 watts so who knows.

          I kind of stumbled on cruise control the other day. That is a neat feature. You don't even have to hold the twist grip.

          I ride around in low and PAS has one setting right now, 650 watts. I have the temp sensor hooked up but not calibrated. Today I will have to pay attention to the ambient temp before I start out. Nothing has been getting hot to the touch though even if I have been beating on it.

          It uses more juice than a BBSHD but I am riding a little faster. It is like my new turbo Civic. I have a hard time keeping my foot out of it. If I start at 58 volts I can get well over 30 miles and still have more than 50 volts left. I really love this 52 volt 24 amp GA Luna battery. It is the best purchase I have made with anything eBike related.......calfee
          Last edited by calfee20; 11-09-2017, 04:05 AM.

          Comment


          • g725s
            g725s commented
            Editing a comment
            What's with the keys? You have an ignition?

          • calfee20
            calfee20 commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes, this controller and I assume most of them can be turned on and off with a simple switch between two of the wires coming from the controller. The Cyclone throttle/ignition switch plugged right in to the controller. I only had to change one connector.

          #21
          I stumbled on something the other day while riding this bike that may be useful to anyone using an external controller. This would also work with a BBSHD if you are using an external controller.

          I put two throttles on the bike to compare a Grin part with a cyclone throttle. I also didn't want to give up my ignition switch. I don't use a throttle much so it took a little while to realize the throttles had different outputs. The Cyclone part is plugged into the controller and the Grin throttle goes through the Cycle Analyst. I also have a three position power switch plugged into the controller. The Cyclone throttle gives me the full power that the system is capable of while the other throttle and the Cycle Analyst gives me PAS and any amount of total watts that I want to set the program for.

          With this setup you could have a Legal 750 watt bike and the full power on tap at the same time. If you were stopped you could show the 750 watt programming and probably walk away from trouble.

          What do you think?.................calfee

          Comment


          • ykick
            ykick commented
            Editing a comment
            Seems like a solution looking for a problem? I’ve never heard of anyone asked by authorities to prove if their eBike is “legal”?

            Local, state laws govern what the man can do about us with eBikes. 2004 Federal consumer definition of eBike has NOTHING to do with any local and/or state enforcement. Isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, IMO. I know because I've ridden eBikes over a decade where they're are and continue to be illegal in NY state.

            But unless there’s been complaints of someone terrorizing folks with imprudent operation of an eBike most cops have much better things to do than try to navigate the murky waters of defining what’s legal or not? Ride like an athletic pedaler and there's really no problems. Trouble starts with exhibition of speed, hooliganism and general disregard for others' safety. Looking and operating like an unlicensed motor vehicle in traffic is another thing that will bring unwanted attention.

            That's what I think...

          #22
          Nice looking bike...In fact I have one on order....I thought I was going with mid drive...but you didn't. Can you abbreviate why your went with hub moter for this bike?

          Thanks trying to decide what to build with this bike...

          Comment


            #23
            Originally posted by Hap View Post
            Nice looking bike...In fact I have one on order....I thought I was going with mid drive...but you didn't. Can you abbreviate why your went with hub moter for this bike?

            Thanks trying to decide what to build with this bike...
            Well I did have A BBSHD on this bike but the IGH gave me problems and I had the Edge sitting there and............The next thing I knew the Edge was on the bike.

            Another member sent me a PM with this very question so I guess I will have to start a thread.

            Comment


              #24
              I added Jones Bars and they feel real good. I may have found my Standard Handlebar. I will give it a couple of months to be sure but that 45 degree is really where my hands want to be.

              Click image for larger version

Name:	2018_02_18_14_17_07_ProShot.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	247.4 KB
ID:	58316


              I also added Luna's 72 volt 17.5 amp GA triangle. Now there is a difference maker. I was getting close to 6000 watts from my puny 12 fet controller. I never seemed to have over heating problems with the 52 volt battery. This one however puts me in the red right away if I am horsing around.

              Comment


              • theronchaplin
                theronchaplin commented
                Editing a comment
                I agree on the Jones bars... I don't think I'll ever use another style.

              • MoneyPit
                MoneyPit commented
                Editing a comment
                Same here. I added them hoping for multiple hand positions to help with some wrist/hand problems I am having after an accident. 350 miles on that bike as of this morning and bought a second set of Jones bars for my other commuter bike. Using the ESI Extra Chunky grips which are expensive but very good at shock absorption.

              #25
              I have been doing a few more things to the bike. Grin has a firmware update and I managed to figure out the software and upload it to the Cycle Analyst. There is a lot of neat stuff in the update. I installed a two button switch and can now use it like the + and - buttons on a BBSXX. I can program in any amount of watts and most any number of steps for my PAS. I am still working on my regen but I think I know what to do.

              Like commuter ebikes I need to gear the bike a little higher. I got a 52 tooth ISIS chain wheel from Luna and installed it today. The only problrm is my PAS magnet doesn't work with ISIS bottom brackets. I put the disc in my lathe and opened the hole up and epoxied it to the inside of the chain wheel.

              Click image for larger version  Name:	2018_03_10_11_40_44_ProShot.jpg Views:	1 Size:	116.4 KB ID:	59707

              I like it better here but after I was half way into the project I realized that if I drop a chain I will damage things. I will use this for now and see if I can figure something else out.

              Here it is mounted on the bike.

              Click image for larger version

Name:	2018_03_11_18_26_00_ProShot.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	102.8 KB
ID:	59777
              Last edited by calfee20; 03-11-2018, 04:53 PM.

              Comment


                #26
                Here it is from the other side.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	2018_03_11_18_33_03_ProShot.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	115.1 KB
ID:	59780

                I moved the Cycle Analyst to a better position and rerouted all of the wires. I am quite sure I have the controls in a permanent setup now.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	2018_03_11_18_31_02_ProShot.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	96.9 KB
ID:	59781

                Here is a shot from the right side that shows the battery, controller, and some of the wireing. I also improved the mounting of the battery. I can remove it in minutes with Velcro straps in case I want to mount it on another bike.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	2018_03_11_18_32_29_ProShot.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	116.1 KB
ID:	59782

                Comment


                  #27
                  Well all of that fancy work on the PAS and it doesn't work. The led won't flash when the magnets are moving past the pickup.

                  I have another BB to install that will improve my chain line by moving the sprocket toward the center by about a half an inch. I will work on the PAS then.

                  The PAS is from King-Meter and looks like this.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	Aviary Photo_131668291570696775.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	35.6 KB
ID:	60876

                  When I moved it to the right side I cut the tabs off and attached it with a metal bracket that I had

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	2018_03_11_18_26_00_ProShot.jpg Views:	1 Size:	102.8 KB ID:	59777

                  While I was installing the new BB I passed a magnet over the sensor and the led flashed. Thinking it was a bad wire I started yanking and twisting the wire to get it to fail. It was fine during the torture test. I installed it a slightly different way to that metal bracket and it doesn't work again.

                  All I can figure out is that bracket is effecting the sensor somehow or the sensor is too close to the magnet. I was just reading about that sensor and it is supposed to be more sensitive and work up to 6mm away from the magnets.

                  I just got one of these so I can leave the bracket where it is. I will be working on it tomorrow so we shall see.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	41diX6LUsvL._AC_US327_QL65_.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	26.2 KB
ID:	60877

                  Comment


                  • JPLabs
                    JPLabs commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I noticed the magnets sweep along the length of the sensor. Typical setups have the sensor oriented 90* off your setup. Maybe, try other orientation for sensor?

                    That bracket might be focusing magnetic flux from the motor and screwing with the sensor, I suppose, too. If so, try holding it w/o bracket, to confirm?

                    Couple fresh thoughts, perhaps, at least...

                  • calfee20
                    calfee20 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thanks for the thought. Another set of eyes always sees things differently. Like any build the frame/bike itself kind of dictates how things are constructed. I will try the new, different pickup and if it doesn't work I will try your suggestion.

                  #28
                  Any chance of trying to put that PAS sensor on the other side? You'd need the ability to reverse the direction of the sensor of course. I ended up hogging mine out and then seating it firmly on the crank arm. Used a long strip of gorilla tape to hold the sensor ring close. Then a small zip tie to hold that on. Thats an 8-magnet disc that needs 4.8mm or less of distance to work. I think I am at 3.6. You can see the BBSHD mounting... this is for the front hub motor.

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20171231_204806.jpg Views:	1 Size:	2.25 MB ID:	60899

                  Comment


                  • calfee20
                    calfee20 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    It used to be on the other side but I needed to come up with something else when I switched to a splined ISIS crank and BB. It can't be a directional thing because it would work if you cranked backwards. Plus I maintained the direction of the arrows when gluing it to the chain wheel.

                    Here are the directions from the King-Meter site.

                    Fix the sensor beside the frame of the bike and put the disk through the pedal. To get a high sensitivity the magnetic dot of the disk must be faced to the cross mark and adjust angle trestle and sensor.

                    Not much there. It is actually kind of funny.

                  #29
                  Originally posted by MoneyPit View Post
                  Any chance of trying to put that PAS sensor on the other side? You'd need the ability to reverse the direction of the sensor of course. I ended up hogging mine out and then seating it firmly on the crank arm. Used a long strip of gorilla tape to hold the sensor ring close. Then a small zip tie to hold that on. Thats an 8-magnet disc that needs 4.8mm or less of distance to work. I think I am at 3.6. You can see the BBSHD mounting... this is for the front hub motor.

                  Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_20171231_204806.jpg Views:	1 Size:	2.25 MB ID:	60899
                  I would like to hear more about your bike. I have been wanting to combine a BBSHD and a hub motor on the same bike but not with the hub motor on the front wheel. Can you get them to work together?

                  Comment


                    #30
                    OK back to the PAS sensor problem. It has been a strange couple of days "work sessions" figuring it out. JPlabs basically had it figured out. I started sliding the sensor along where that plastic bracket used to be until the led started flashing. The led started flashing when the crosshairs on the sensor was right over the center hole in the metal bracket. I drilled out that center hole so it was larger and fastened the sensor. It still didn't work.

                    Click image for larger version  Name:	2018_03_11_18_26_00_ProShot.jpg Views:	1 Size:	102.8 KB ID:	59777

                    The Cycle Analyst has 2 little arrows that go up and down to tell you the PAS sensor is working. Well only one of the arrows was working so something was still interfering with the sensor. It wasn't until I got the sensor at 90 degrees to the disc that I got it working. I carved a piece of Styrofoam to mount the sensor to the down tube to test it. I will have to go out and buy a piece of dense foam to make a permanent mount.

                    Here is a photo of the sensor mounted to a normal bike frame. Well semi normal. Is that kind of like Abby-normal. "Pardon the reference to "Young Dr. Frankenstein"

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	pas.PNG
Views:	1
Size:	307.4 KB
ID:	61108

                    Most frames have a BB that has three tubes coming out of it where you could mount this sensor. My cruiser fat bike frame is not like this however so I will carve an adapter block to get it into place.

                    All of these problems are with this type of sensor. Moneypit has a different sensor that goes through the metal bracket and points at the magnets. There are also sensors that lay along the metal bracket and are not at 90 degrees to the magnetic disc.

                    Click image for larger version  Name:	41diX6LUsvL._AC_US327_QL65_.jpg Views:	1 Size:	26.2 KB ID:	60877

                    I would call this whole episode a perfect example of Murphy's Law.............calfee

                    Comment


                    • MoneyPit
                      MoneyPit commented
                      Editing a comment
                      well at least you have it figured out now. The journey is half the reason to get off the couch and go down the road in the first place!
                  Working...
                  X