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Edge 1500 on an Electra Fat

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    #31
    Originally posted by calfee20 View Post

    I would like to hear more about your bike. I have been wanting to combine a BBSHD and a hub motor on the same bike but not with the hub motor on the front wheel. Can you get them to work together?
    I did a writeup here on it.

    https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...placement-bike

    Feel free to ask me anything although you may want to do it over there to keep your own thread from suffering from too much cross pollination. No worries either way.

    Interesting you bring up a BBSHD + hub where both are on the back wheel. For me, the hub+BBSHD has been so successful I have been toying with the idea of a 3-motor bike using two small motors as helpers to totally eliminate the mid drive's shock to the drivetrain - the front works very well as that. And I think my experience so far with a commuter/cargo AWD both as dual hubs and hub+mid drive have both been very successful albeit for different reasons. I would not want to do without front motor power.

    What I've been thinking of is Bafang mini hub motors front and rear, which would let me use small KT 20a HIGO controllers which in turn would let me split off PAS easily since I have already successfully done this. A nice hot rod BBSHD rounds out the package and ensures the bike can go anywhere... without killing the parts on itself.

    But I am concerned with putting a hub motor on the back because I am worried that the mid drive will put so much torque on the freewheel or cassette that it will tear the motor apart.

    Comment


    • calfee20
      calfee20 commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks! You know I missed this and I don't usually miss much on this forum.

    • MoneyPit
      MoneyPit commented
      Editing a comment
      I just now edited it in one spot and posted up an update.

    #32
    The sun came out so I was actually able to test some of my upgrades. The PAS is working now with ten levels and 1500 watts max but I have to change some settings to smooth things out. I will have to watch a couple of the appropriate videos from Grin.

    I installed new brakes. I used Avid BB7s with Shimano ICE tech rotors. 203mm in the front and 180mm in the rear.

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    The rear works perfectly but the front shudders and makes the fork hop a bit during hard braking. I will blame this on the Electra flexi front fork. I wonder if I can find a stronger replacement. Maybe something with triple trees.

    I put 20 miles on my ghetto Stans no tube installation and so far everything is fine. I tried the Stans on a 26" X 2.35 Big apple but it doesn't seem to want to hold air so far. I may have to ride it around to get it to seal.

    Comment


    • g725s
      g725s commented
      Editing a comment
      Yeah, don't think the front fork was designed with bigger tires, more weight, more power in mind. It's a beach cruiser that was designed for slow laid back cruising.

    • commuter ebikes
      commuter ebikes commented
      Editing a comment
      I used to own that wheel!

    • calfee20
      calfee20 commented
      Editing a comment
      I had your other wheel with the factory Electra 3.5" tire on it holding up my Luna cargo frame. Well I had a slow leak on this wheel so I pulled a quick swap to go on a ride today. The Electra tire has a smaller contact patch and it actually improved my watts per mile. The bike was a little quicker steering and easier to handle.

      I like it...……..calfee

    #33
    This bike is now my main ride. I have been searching for nice easy fire or farm roads going through the woods For me this is about as extreme a trail that I would like to go on. You can all commence laughing now. This kind of trail is hard to find around here but I am going to work at it.

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    I have actually purchased a suspension fork for another bike I am working on.

    Comment


    • Tommycat
      Tommycat commented
      Editing a comment
      Ahhhhh, quiet competent non-stress hub motor, peaceful, scenic views... I feel calmer already. :-) And save that picture for your 2019 calendar! Nice!

    #34
    Since I can't sit still I got a new motor for this bike. I got a 45mm Mxus motor from West Coast Cycles. http://west-coast-electric-cycles.my...oto-rim-no-kit I was lucky to buy it before a huge price increase, probably due to the tariff. I mounted a 30+ year old Dunlop K81 from my Norton days that was hiding under a bench in the barn. I kept everything the same wiring, battery, and controller. It bolted right up. I only had to file my dropouts a touch.

    Wow what a difference. My Cycle Analyst recorded a max amp of 77. The bike rushed up to 40mph before I shut it down. The bike was very stable but I wasn't comfortable with the high seating position as compared to my old Nortons. Maybe I will get a seat post dropper but then I will lose my body float.

    To be fair to the Edge 1500 it was at a huge disadvantage laced to a 4 X 26 inch fat tire. The smaller motorcycle tire made me lose 1.5 inches of pedal clearance and I lost pedaling speed. So I installed a 140mm crankset and a 60 tooth chainwheel. The other day I made it to 29mph before I spun out. That took about 1300 watts in the PAS. Great for going over a narrow causeway where the speed limit is 25.

    I lost some range. I was getting about 25 watts per mile with the edge but now I am down to about 29 watts per mile. Then again I am usually testing some high wattage situation a couple of times per ride. Maybe it will be better when I calm down. I have to be careful now with the throttle because unless I have my weight firmly on the saddle when I start off it wants to pick up the front wheel. Actually it is a good thing I set up this bike with two throttles. The left one goes into the cycle analyst that has been adjusted to tone things down but the right throttle goes straight to the controller for full power and response..

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    Comment


    • g725s
      g725s commented
      Editing a comment
      How does the rear hub motor climb hills compared to the Bafang Mid Drive you first put on this frame?

    • calfee20
      calfee20 commented
      Editing a comment
      You have to ride on a bike with a BIG hub motor to understand how great they are. The BBSHD will do 1500 watts while this hub motor will do well over 5000. I have not tripped the BMS but I can take it right to it's limits.

      I ride this bike much like all of my others. I set the PAS to 500 to 800 watts and just pedal around. I usually stay under 20 mph but there are a couple of narrow roads that I need to take the lane and stay with traffic. Going 30+ in these situations is not a problem.

      I do not have hills the way you do. All of my bikes have made the hills I have go away. If I am pedaling with 600 watts of PAS on the flat I will be going a little under 20 mph. If I then come to a hill I will slow down and downshift but if I don't want to slow down I just pump up the PAS or use the throttle.


      I have not gotten this motor hot but I have gotten the BBSHD hot, trying to do 30mph. There is no more than leg power going into the drive train so shifting is smooth and easy. I know it would fly up just about any hill. The question would be whether a long enough hill would overheat the motor. You might have some hills that will tax it but I don't.


      A BBSHD will be the best bet for true single track and if you are looking for the best efficiency. Their PAS is also the best I have used.

    #35
    I want to get a rack for the back of my bike. What racks do you know of that might be best? I like the looks of yours. I might even want to put bags that hang off each side of the rack.

    Comment


      #36
      Originally posted by g725s View Post
      I want to get a rack for the back of my bike. What racks do you know of that might be best? I like the looks of yours. I might even want to put bags that hang off each side of the rack.
      That is a Uni Super Tourist Fat made by Topeak. It has a quick track so the Topeak bag slides right on.



      All of my bikes have Topeak racks or I have modified them to accept that trunk bag. That bag has side panniers built in. The bag is quite full with tools, tube, Luna battery powered compressor and binoculars.

      Comment


      • MoneyPit
        MoneyPit commented
        Editing a comment
        Those bags are popular over on the Sondors FB group and folks recommend you strap them down. A couple have hit potholes hard enough to send the bag flying.

      • calfee20
        calfee20 commented
        Editing a comment
        Wow that must be some pothole.

      • MoneyPit
        MoneyPit commented
        Editing a comment
        No idea I don't use these bags. Not crazy about the concept. One thing I do with my rack battery, to supplement the 4 velcro straps that hold it onto the rack, is use a closely-spaced (i.e. small squares) bungee cargo net. A net with even moderate pressure is providing that pressure all over the bag. Works great as a fail-safe.

      #37
      Originally posted by calfee20 View Post

      That is a Uni Super Tourist Fat made by Topeak. It has a quick track so the Topeak bag slides right on.



      All of my bikes have Topeak racks or I have modified them to accept that trunk bag. That bag has side panniers built in. The bag is quite full with tools, tube, Luna battery powered compressor and binoculars.
      That rack bag is unique the way it slides on. I guess I could use that bag that slides on. What I'm most interested in is having one saddle bag off the side to hold my wetsuit.

      Comment


        #38
        Originally posted by g725s View Post

        That rack bag is unique the way it slides on. I guess I could use that bag that slides on. What I'm most interested in is having one saddle bag off the side to hold my wetsuit.
        https://www.topeak.com/us/en/product...nier-drybag-dx

        Comment


          #39
          That looks perfect. Thanks for posting that.

          Comment


            #40
            Update time.

            There has been a lot going on. I am in Florida now and I have been riding most every day. I have been checking the bike paths in the Tampa area. I will scout a path with this bike and then use the trike if the path is suitable.

            I mentioned in the last post about this bike that I went from about 25 watts/mile with the Edge to about 30 with the bigger motor. In fact more testing has revealed that fast or slow I am stuck at about 30 watts/mile. Well I liked the 18 fet controller that I put on the trike so much that I bought another one from West Coast Ebikes. The new controller can push out 95 amp peaks " that's a rush" and if I take it easy like under 20 mph I can get 22 watts per mile.

            I was able to squeeze the controller between the seat post and the rear fender. I suppose I should take a photo.

            Comment


              #41
              Well to late for that photo. The bike got redone yet again. I was kind of a sloppy job anyway because it was done in the open doorway of my daughter's garage without my full set of tools.

              The first thing I did when I got home was to put a Maxxis Mammoth on the front. They have a continuous strip down the middle that makes them roll easy and a lot quieter than most knobby tires.

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              The Mxus 3000 Turbo had a 19" moped rim on it when I bought it so I put an old Norton motorcycle tire on it. That was a failed experiment. The MC tire was heavy, stiff, and gave a harsh ride. All of a sudden the rear wheel was apart and the motor got laced to an Electra 80mm X 559 factory rim that was collecting dust. While it was apart I upgraded the 180mm rotor to a 203mm unit. The fender had to go back to where it was so I lost my spot for the controller.

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              I need more range so I am adding a 14 amp/hr brick to the 17 amp/hr triangle that I have now. The triangle was hanging from the top tube but I lowered it to the bottom bracket and the down tube. That 14 amp/hr. brick just barely fit into my triangle.

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              This came out pretty good it might just be a keeper now.

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              Oh one final thing the added wieght on the rear wheel makes it noiser than the front. I will have to play with air pressure to see if I can improve it.
              Last edited by calfee20; 3 weeks ago.

              Comment


                #42
                I went for a 25 mile ride yesterday. I was mostly on a bike path and some local streets but I did go on some gravel paths also. The Maxxis Mammoths can take 30 psi so I put 25 in the front and 30 in the rear. The bike got quieter because I am now running on the center strip more. Well what I didn't see coming was the increase in efficiency that I am getting now. I got 18.9 watts per mile and I wasn't taking it easy. I was testing my gearing with the larger rear tire and I was usually around 20 mph and had it up to 27 mph with 700 watts of assist. That is a pretty good speed for 700 watts. I can only duplicate that with KMX recumbent trike.

                I'll have to see what I get when I go for a relaxed ride. It doesn't make any sense but it has to be the tires.

                Comment


                  #43
                  Originally posted by calfee20 View Post

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                  Very nice, sir! These wheels are a perfect choice!
                  Last edited by toro1978; 3 weeks ago.

                  Comment


                    #44
                    This is the end of the Fairhaven Bike path. I am standing on top of the Hurricane dike. My back is facing the mechanical gate that the boats go through. The harbor is on the left, Buzzards Bay is on the right and that is Fort Phoenix with the cannon on the right.


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                    This is from the same spot but facing the Fairhaven side of the Harbor.

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                    Comment


                      #45
                      I must have hit on a perfect combo with this bike. Since I installed the Maxxis Mammoths the bike has gotten incredibly efficient. I was not looking for this. It just sort of fell into my lap.

                      I went on a relaxed 40 mile run with my oldest daughter. She was riding my BBSHD Electra Cruiser with Schwabe Big Apples. It was a good mix of paved streets and bike trails for this area and I got 15.5 Watts per mile!! If I am by myself and going a little faster I'll get about 17 Watts per mile but if I am going still faster and doing a lot of sand ,mud and off road it won't get worse than 19 Watts per mile.

                      My batteries total 31 amp/hours and if you figure out the watts available and use a conservative 20 Watts per mile I come up with at least 110 miles. The only explanation is the center strip on the tires that the bike is running on and maybe I have hit on a perfect combination with this motor winding and tire size. I can pedal this bike at 25mph with 500 watts of assist. It does not make any sense but I love it.

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                      I installed Nord-Lock washers on the rear axle and toned down the regeneration so everything will stay tight back there. I'm hardly using any brake pad material at all. 95% of my braking is done with the regen. This is another big plus

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