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Testing BLDC motor's Phase Wiring - Hall Sensors and Wiring.

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  • Tommycat
    commented on 's reply
    With such little information my first reaction would be that you're using a square wave controller

    There are generally 2 class of controller designs out in the market: sinewave FOC or square wave. There isn't a BEST controller design but there is a most suitable design for your needs. We break down the pros and cons of each design and hope to give some clarity to the 2 different controller designs in this short article.


    Causing noise on start-up.

    If you open a ticket in the "Troubleshooting" section with as much detail on your parts and issue as possible. I'd be glad to continue a discussion on this there.


    Regards,
    T.C.

  • satheesh R
    replied
    Hi,
    I have been testing hub motor. Let me know why its getting some unwanted noise below 50 RPM. The above 50 RPM running smooth.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tommycat
    commented on 's reply
    Hi Kdubb2448,
    And welcome to the forum! :-)

    Seems like an interesting problem! If you would be kind enough to open a thread in the trouble shooting section.




    I'd be glad to help you there.
    Please give as much information on your scooter's parts, and the reasons behind why you're changing everything.
    Controller, Display, Throttle, ECT... Have any wiring diagram? How many wires go to the motor? Have a multi-meter and know how to use it?
    The more information the better!

    Regards,
    T.C.
    Last edited by Tommycat; 4 weeks ago. Reason: Fixed link...

  • Kdubb2448
    replied
    NEED HELP PLEASE
    Good afternoon I’m old and retired. Just learning about the scooters. I have a Hiboy Max that I bought. Absolutely love it some people don’t like them. I think it’s great for me anyway I have replaced everything on the scooter and Friday. I got the new motor front wheel motor And the accelerator put them on the front tire doesn’t do anything but if you hit the thumb brake, it spins backwards. I called Hiboy. They told me to send them a video haven’t heard back any thoughts anybody.?​ I did so many combinations of the three phase wires and nothing But as soon as you hit the brake it spins backwards. Ìt
    Last edited by Kdubb2448; 4 weeks ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tommycat
    commented on 's reply
    PM’d Tash about this to have him post in the troubleshooting thread. Haven’t heard back, or seen anything in the troubleshooting section.

  • Tash
    replied
    Tommycat

    Thanks for the guide! And really nice to follow diagram for phase swapping, that really helped out a lot!
    I still got some challenges that I hope you could help me with?

    1. the parts - not the same brands, trying to build a "garbage e-bike" with my son:

    Offbrand 250w e bike hub motor
    Offbrand 250w Controller from old e-scooter, kick scooter
    36v batterypack.

    My problem:
    After a lot of time, tweaking the programming on controller, and then finding your guide, and startet swopping phases it got it all running.

    The problem is that I feel the controller getting quite hot (only testing unloaded, with minimum throttle)
    Im not quite sure how to measure amp, as you suggest in the guide?

    the wiring setup that works is:

    Phase:

    Y - Y
    B - G
    G - B

    Hall
    R - R
    BL - BL

    B - B
    G - G
    Y - Y

    I have not tried to swap the hall sensor cables, and don't know If I should?

    Hope you can help me out with some recommendations.



    Leave a comment:


  • Tommycat
    replied
    Hello Valerio,

    That looks like a very nice testing harness to use.

    Originally posted by Valerio View Post
    Should I disconnect the controller from the battery before swapping any connection?
    This is what I would recommend above all else. Allowing time for the controller's capacitors to discharge after battery disconnect as mentioned previously, before making any connection changes....
    Do you know if your PAS sensor is wired correctly and working properly? Try pedaling in reverse as another check.


    After reviewing your controller specifications, it looks to me that it may be a dual mode type. From what I understand, this type model can run a motor that has hall sensors as well as a motor that has none. Or can switch to sensor less mode if a problem does arise with a sensored motor's hall sensors or wiring.
    With this in mind you may try running it with all the motor's hall sensor wiring disconnected and see if it runs in "sensor less" mode... (isolate the controller's hall signal lines from each other and from shorting.)

    You may want to consider reposting your problem in the "troubleshooting" section where I believe it may get more views than in this location... the more help, the better.


    Leave a comment:


  • Valerio
    replied
    Hello Tommycat,
    I finally got some time to try the hall sensor cable thing…
    This is how I’m planning to do it, see the pic below

    Click image for larger version

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    Now, would you perform the actions in the order below to prevent blowing out everything?

    1-connect all the cables

    2-plug in the controller to the battery

    3-turn on the display

    4-try to pedal and see what happens

    5-turn off display

    6-swap the hall cables (one at the time, following your diagram)

    7 Repeat steps 3 to 6

    Should I disconnect the controller from the battery before swapping any connection?

    What do you suggest? Any changes?

    Please let me know.
    Thanks.
    V.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tommycat
    replied
    Try with the PAS disconnected, and using the throttle only. Give you a good opportunity to check its signal output. DISCONNECT every thing else except what’s mentioned as absolutely needed above.

    I f after completing the above voltage checks and recommendations, my next effort would be to open up the controller and check for damage and/or wiring problems…

    Leave a comment:


  • Valerio
    replied
    You only have the controller, bypassed display connection, throttle, motor and battery connected together... and nothing else?
    I tried with the PAS, pedalling, no throttle, everything else connected. I think its the same no?

    You may switch motor's phase wires if you desire... see cautions.
    what else is left to try?
    V.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tommycat
    replied
    Just to verify...

    You only have the controller, bypassed display connection, throttle, motor and battery connected together... and nothing else?

    See testing recommendations above.

    You may switch motor's phase wires if you desire... see cautions.


    Have you contacted your supplier yet?

    Leave a comment:


  • Valerio
    replied
    Hey Tommycat,

    today I tested with the display shorted,

    no signs of life.

    should I proceed with your diagram thing? what do you suggest?
    V.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tommycat
    replied
    Originally posted by Valerio View Post
    if I find out that the motor starts after shorting the display, I guess that would be the proof that the controller works... what would the next step be? buying another display?
    I am starting to be suspicious of KT displays at this point...
    Getting the motor to at least try to start would be a good advancement. And having it start after bypassing the display would be a good indication that the display is involved. I still would do a few more troubleshooting steps to pin it entirely on the display if you'd like to try at that time. (see recommendations below)
    My first step would be to contact the seller and give the details of your problem and trouble shooting, as well as verify that the correct one was sent in the first place. Then go from there.



    Originally posted by Valerio View Post
    Now that we find out that there is current in the controller, is there any hope to make it work trying re-matching the phase cables using your initial diagram or this would a totally different problem?
    It seems to me to be a totally different problem. That said, it would not hurt anything to try... As long as you don't draw to many amps when testing. AKA keep throttle inputs low and short. This is where an inline current meter would help to determine if the motor is trying to do anything at all...?



    Further electrical testing recommendations...

    Verify that all the connector pins are not bent and making proper contact. And that they are fully snapped together.
    Check for full battery voltage between display connection RED wire and Black wires.
    Check for full battery voltage between display connection BLUE and BLACK wires after display is turned on.
    Verify correct throttle voltage output on signal wire as suggested above.


    The controller communicates with the display between the YELLOW (receive) and GREEN (transmit) wires with short bursts of data packets. If you where to check from each of these wires to ground for voltage spikes of 3.3vdc or perhaps 5vdc to 0vdc. It may provide a clue. Open wire, dead, ETC.

    Leave a comment:


  • Valerio
    replied
    Dear Tommycat,

    I have done the test using the parameters in the screenshot.

    Nothing works.
    I am at square one.

    before I officially give up, I have 2 questions:
    • if I find out that the motor starts after shorting the display, I guess that would be the proof that the controller works... what would the next step be? buying another display?
      I am starting to be suspicious of KT displays at this point...
    • Now that we find out that there is current in the controller, is there any hope to make it work trying re-matching the phase cables using your initial diagram or this would a totally different problem?
    Thanks.
    V.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tommycat
    replied
    Originally posted by Valerio View Post
    having a no-display solution is no a viable solution for me, I need to set the speed and I want the ability to turn lights on etc...

    For you, suggested for troubleshooting only as a possible way of eliminating the display as the problem...



    Originally posted by Valerio View Post
    I actually wondered if this all thing was solvable by playing with the parameters but they are so many and most are very difficult to understand for me.

    Agreed. Can't hurt to try... but stay away from the PASSWORD options! Many a display bricked by loss of PIN. :-/



    Originally posted by Valerio View Post
    In addition to this one thing really caught my attention looking at the page where you grabbed the screenshot about shorting the display cable...
    Look below:

    Click image for larger version

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    • I had never seen the information in the red box, I really wonder if this could make a difference,
      especially cause it mentions that the batter level only becomes accurate after pedalling for a while, so strange, could this really be the cause of all this mess?

    I'll do a test soon and let you know.

    Wow, great catch! Hoping your battery display propagates and everything starts working!



    Leave a comment:

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