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    The Magic Pie Bluetooth Is Not Really Supported

    I'm completely confused about the Bluetooth on the Version 5 Golden Motors, the ones running 5.3.1 firmware. You can get the BT dongle and plug it into one of the connectors on the motor. As far as I know this is what makes a V5 different from a V4 Magic Pie. Anyway, the only place I found to download the software was on the GMotors site in Canada. It's not in the Play Store. Anyway, I tried downloading the app file and installing it on a Nexus 6, a Nexus 7, an LG G3, a Moto G (2nd) and an LG 41c. They all crash when initiating the app. I discussed this with Gary, which was kind of a waste of time, and finally just posted this video of what I think the app can do, real world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J91oALSihVo

    Basically what it does is crash. Right now, on the GM Canada site (Downloads) the app is listed as compatible only with Android 4.4. I have a phone with 4.4.2, and it crashes. So it's like 4.4 and nothing else. Plus there is no iOS app.

    This is a bit of joke. Vendors advertise the Magic Pie 5 as a Bluetooth motor. It's not not, unless you have a very specific phone that will run the app. I'm forced to wait or buy a USB cable. The USB cable is out of stock at Luna. I'm not really in the mood to buy one, but I have two V5 motors and I want to configure them at some point.

    Get the Bluetooth app working, in Android and iOS, across the board, or stop selling the motor as a Bluetooth motor. I've wasted too much time on this. No one cares. It isn't supported. There's some guy working on the app (read the YouTube comments on my video) and that's it.

    #2
    Thanks for the heads-up. I'd looked at that motor for a possible 2nd build, and the wireless programming sounded pretty appealing; I'll be sure to go with USB option if I decide to get one. I love that manufacturers and 'some' sellers are pushing the envelope to get us neat features as fast as they can, but sometimes I think they rush it too much, not taking time to validate the product in-use. I'm new to this and I have already seen more glitches than I would have cared to run into. It's great to have info like this to help guide us on what works well, and what has issues or severe limitations.

    Even USB programming can be glitchy; I had some difficulty at first with that on my BBSHD. Trying a different PC with a different OS was my breakthrough. OS compatibility was not universal, and is critical to get right, as you observed in this case.
    Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

    Comment


      #3
      Yes, I agree the support is practically non-existent and there should really be some official representation on the net to deal with customer enquiries and upgrades.
      I bought an MP5 a couple of months ago, got bluetooth to work and am very happy with it - changed my life!
      However, with no documentation I spent a while trying to work out how to get it working with my Samsung S3.
      I initially thought it was broken because Android's bluetooth page couldn't see it advertised as a nearby device.
      Turns out that it is specific to the app, and appears not to use Android's API as I expected.
      The app also crashed for me sometimes, and there could be many reasons, but I had more luck with a freshly booted phone with plenty of free space, and launching the app *before* switching on the motor!
      Once it launches, set the language to English, press the "-)))" icon to connect to the bt device, and it should find and list its MAC address. Select and return.
      (The icon will turn blue when connected). I think it subsequently connects automatically.

      The app looks good and does work, but I don't use it often because I don't need to know my speed, and I already know the voltage from a lipo battery monitor commonly used for RC models.
      You can experiment with the configuration, limiting current draw, wheel rpm and regeneration current, but it won't allow increasing them beyond 30A, 380rpm and 50A respectively.
      I want to be able to hack the firmware to increase this limits, but can't find any info at all yet. Perhaps a bluetooth sniffer may help to decode the protocol.
      Hope this helps a bit!

      Comment


        #4
        I went around, in a circle, with Gary Salo at GM Canada. Tom at Luna told me they do not support the app or offer it. Luna refers people to the GM Canada site. I spent 8 hours in a customer service spiral with Salo, and it was clear the app is far from useable in any commercial form. It works on some phones with some version of Android, but none of the half dozen phone I've tried will launch the app.

        I closed out the support ticket with Gary and noted the Mac seems to be a better supported product, at least through Paul at EM3ev. I own two Goldens. They are nice motors. But the support is not very good and the people who sell the Goldens aren't very interested, from my experience.

        Final contact form with Gary Salo:

        "Android 4.4 and up" -- Your downloads page

        I told you (check the posts) I used 4.42, 5.0, 5.0

        Your page says if I have 5.3.1 it should work, but the app doesn't launch or is unstable, so I don't know if that is accurate. I'd put a power connector on the Magic Pie V5 I have, but the app doesn't run, so what's the point. I'll mount that wheel in a few months, maybe buy a USB cable from you or Luna. I told Luna I can't make the app work and it's too bad they don't seem to support the bluetooth, since they sell it. If they had sold the Smart Pie I guess I would have bought it from Luna. Luna gets stuff here a lot quicker, and their prices are lower, but they don't seem that interested in Golden. I asked if they might carry more stuff from Golden, but I haven't heard back yet.

        It's a shame the app doesn't work, since the system would seem to have a lot of value. I just assumed since I had Android 4.4.2 and the version had the right firmware it would work. I haven't had an app crash every time for years. So it's too bad, because you seem to do a nice job, but everything I know is in that YouTube video I posted. Maybe that's why I'm not cooperating buy you can just tell people to download the app and see if it works, before they buy the Bluetooth dongle.

        If you would care to send me a stable version of the app, I would be grateful.

        Obviously, since we aren't on the same page on any of this, and I've used the right Android versions, have the correct 5.3.1, etc, there's no point in going on. Maybe the Mac motors are a better way to go, anyway. Not sure. Have to compare. Was hoping the Goldens would be good, but this is really a setback. It's been out there a long time and apparently the Chinese aren't doing a very good job of supporting it.

        Again, if you have a stable version of the app, or acquire one, please let me know or I will check back on the downloads page.

        Your buddy,

        George

        Comment


          #5
          Hi George,

          We have a shipment of more golden pie v5 motors on the way and by your recommendation i also got some of the small smart pie kits. I believe the golden pie kits are some of the hub kits on the market with their built in sine wave controller etc and therefore we have decided to stay with the product line.

          However i am not very excited about the blueetooh features of the v5. I guess i just decided that the bluetooth feature was not worth all the hassle since its a brand new golden pie release and as others have pointed out its not that well doecumented or developed yet.

          We were excited about it at first, but now tend to think the LCD scren is a better option and point people in that direction because it is so much simpler to use.

          Sometimes simpler is better. Since with the golden system you must decide between blue tooth or LCD.... i think its a better option to go with the LCD. China firmware and software are not nearly on point as their hardware is....and its ridiculously hard and buggy to use.


          Comment


            #6
            Eric,

            I like the GM motors and the smaller one would work for a lot of people. The weight on the Smart is more reasonable. It's too bad about the Bluetooth but live and learn. I'd like to configure the motors for some kind of pedal assist, with the display and whatever else is needed. The speed control is a bit finicky. It wouldn't take much to make this line of motors very user friendly, a better riding experience than most manufactured bikes. I think people would appreciate how quiet and smooth they are. Decent power and climb. The integrated controller is handy. The motor is thin so disk brakes are easier. They integrate the two brake types. (I'd carry the 26 inch and at least the 700c.) If you could point people to a couple of frames, a hybrid and a basic mountain bike, show everything they have to do, show the costs, it comps well with other bikes in shops. I thought that Bikes Direct Fatbike build, even though it was a failure, shows what a DIY shop can do to make building simple. You always need a decent bike to start. My last BD bike took way too much work, nothing right on the whole bike, really. So maybe it's better to point people to Townies from a local shop, or basic Treks, Giants, etc. You'll always have better battery choices than anyone else. Thanks. Hope it's a big success and if it isn't you can blame me.

            Comment


              #7
              Hey George,

              Do you have a golden pie LCD? Have you tried one? If not i will mail one to you so you can try it out....

              Comment


                #8
                Eric,

                No, I don't have the LCD. I was trying to figure out if there was an external PAS to mount on the bottom bracket, the little magnets and the sensor. Also the GM Canada site lists a separate LCD for the V4 and another for the V5. There is a manual online (says for V4). I guess I'll do some research....

                I did a little research. I'd like to nail this down and get it done. I asked Gary (GM Canada) and he said the V4 and the V5 LCD's are not compatible. The V5 has different firmware, same display. Also I guess there is a ring for the pedals. So it should be a nice system with the throttle.

                This is good news if you can work out the V5 firmware. Thanks!

                Comment


                  #9
                  I bought the MP LCD from Luna and it has worked great with the MP5 I have, but I too could not figure out where their PAS cables were to be found.

                  I did just (like 5 minutes ago) order a MP5 Bluetooth cable from Luna to see if I can get it to work. I'll post back here when I get it and let you know if I have any luck. Hopefully I didn't just waste $50 :).
                  Magic Pie v5 + Giant Sedona + 52V 13.5ah Panasonic Bottle Battery

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I tried downloading the APK for the BT module, thinking they might have updated it. No luck. It is the same file. There is still no iOS version. I don't know, on the PAS. I think you need a magnet ring and then a sensor. I'm not sure if the sensor plugs in where the speed control is plugged in, using the standard configuration. Gary, at GM Canada, charges $30 more for the V5 version of the display, and says it has different firmware. For what he is charging, around $80, maybe he includes the PAS stuff. Not sure what parts you get with the display from Luna. The price is great. I've gotten used to the throttle, which is too sensitive. If the BT worked, I might change that setting. There is some other data you can get, with a smartphone and the app. I assume they will do the iOS and maybe fix the Android, though the Android test OK on some phones, fails on others. It wouldn't take much to sort this out. Like I might convert a Trek bike with my MP v5, the bigger motor I have just lying around. The Trek has integrated shifters and brakes, so I'd like to get the switches and just use my brake levers. I don't think Luna sells the kit for that, and Canada wants a bit more than they seem to be worth. Eric has a lot of things going on so I'm hanging around he gets this sorted out over a few months. There's the BT stuff and the PAS stuff, how the display works, and accessories like the brake sensors.

                    Since the system is fine the way it is, and simple, I'm not sure what I want. There are more comprehensive displays, but the display may be necessary to make the PAS work, to change the settings. Ideally, they would integrate the PAS with the BT and blow off the USB and the display. I like simple and simple is what I have right now. Integrating the settings for the motor, and the settings for the PAS, into the APP and the BT would make sense. Of course, the App would have to work.:)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I finally found a basically obsolete phone that lets me run the app. It pairs, but not really. It won't show pairing but the blue light on the motor BT module turns on. I can go into the configuration page and see the values. I can set the value. The value I wanted to change, the Acceleration %, can be changed and it gets written into the motor. On the main page, nothing shows. There is a PAS setting. I've done enough research to guess that you need the ring and sensor. Once that is installed, the cable has to be connected. Some motors have the connector, some have a wire that is not terminated (this is really a guess). If that is plugged in, and the Bluetooth module actually fully pairs, you might have a good pedal assist. I can't get the module to officially pair, I don't have the connector, and I don't have the parts for the pedal area. The display, by itself, would be inferior to the BT setup, since you can't configure the motor with the display. You would still need the USB cable, which is more wonky than the BT config.

                      Setting the Accel % lower makes it easier to use the cruise control. The CC is a little twitchy, but it works pretty well as a pedal assist. I'm stopping here. I got the BT to do what I wanted, and the bike is pretty decent now, with the cruise. I got my value out of the BT. So, two hours to install the motor. Six hours to fiddle with the BT to get it to half work...

                      Still,

                      When Paul (EM3ev) sells a line of motors, like the Mac, he has real influence at the factory, and he sells everything as close to plug and play as possible. Paul offers a full line of brake cutoffs, throttles, the Cycle Analyst with programming and plugs, etc. When Paul wants a temp sensor in the motor it seems like he gets it. When Gary Salo wants an app that works for a device he sells, he just throws up his arms and gripes about 'dealing with the Chinese'.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Boy that's an urban legend where bullshit got turned into fact. Paul may have influenced Mac but got most of it wrong with Bafang getting parts support in usable numbers never came from EM3, it came from Luna. Lectric and EM were the noise the cheerleaders, while others were the players and made the changes. That whole scene had another complete idiot quoted as an inside man when Keefer had an intirely imaginary version numbering system. And the llamas slurped up the garbage as fact. Finally at least Bafang is in the light. Making me wonder who really brought Mac into the light.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Regarding the blue tooth function.... i think that feature was a gigantic FAIL. I am not going to put a bunch of support in a feature i dont believe in. Nor am i gonna refuse to sell it. I recommend to all our customers to buy the LCD screen....you cant connect both at the same time so you need t to choose one and the LCD screen is simpler and better. A blue tooth smart phone display sounds like a clever idea but its stupid and i doubt anyone is using it.

                          The golden motor owner is not into feedback....but guess what ...thanks to Luna they are now offering Black magic pies....we put up the money to make them anad proved they could sale.

                          The problem with golden pie motors was not that they lacked a fancy way to connect to your phone...their problem was their motor was ugly as sin with weird chrome penis shaped symbols on them.... and Luna helped improve that.

                          The positives of the golden motor are simple...its a built in sine wave controller in a large diameter direct drive motor ...extremely efficient, smooth, silent and damn good power for only 25 amps.

                          Its twice as expensive to buy wholesale as the cheap kits you see on ebay because its twice as good.

                          The bluetooth feature in the V5 was just a gimmick that failed. It barely sales.... i sale 15 lcd for every 1 bluetooth adapter i sale.

                          Comment


                          • GeorgeS
                            GeorgeS commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Golden has had a hard time making the PAS stuff work. In v4 it was a joke, I guess, just off and on. On v5 it has some different settings. You have to buy the sensor and the magnet ring, plus the BT or the Display. There is a connector on one of the GM motors I have, so I assume that mates to the PAS. You want to set PAS levels. The BT would do that, but it's not working for me. If the BT worked, you could set the configuration of the motor without a USB or computer, and then set the PAS while riding. I hope they straighten it out and at some point I would like to set up a PAS. I've tried to figure out how to make the BT work, how to set up the PAS, mostly from the GM Canada forum and help files.

                            The Mac and GM motors are outstanding. You pay $400 and you get a great motor with no issues like snapping chains or Rohloff hubs. Mount it and go.

                          #14
                          Originally posted by Louis Luna View Post
                          Boy that's an urban legend where bullshit got turned into fact. Paul may have influenced Mac but got most of it wrong with Bafang getting parts support in usable numbers never came from EM3, it came from Luna. Lectric and EM were the noise the cheerleaders, while others were the players and made the changes. That whole scene had another complete idiot quoted as an inside man when Keefer had an intirely imaginary version numbering system. And the llamas slurped up the garbage as fact. Finally at least Bafang is in the light. Making me wonder who really brought Mac into the light.

                          I know there was a scuffle between Chris and Paul over the Mosfets. I don't really know so much about the BBS. Bafang has a monopoly. Logical stuff like a torque sensor doesn't get done. The price seems high. My comment was only about Mac or maybe hubs. Paul had a version of the Mac in Las Vegas last September. I think it was called the 'double wide' or something. He seems to work with Mac. Maybe DIY needs more pull with Bafang, but I can't see much reason to go with mid-drives.

                          GM Canada has no pull with the Chinese GM people. I bought a Magic from you, a Smart from him. I've read through the stuff on the Canada support pages. We don't have much of an ebike industry and we are second class citizens to the Chinese.

                          If you want to sell Macs or GM hubs, I think you need to have the inventory for the different motors, GM has a range of models, so then work out a way to supply laced wheels in the various sizes. The Mac requires a rim and a disk brake version, plus front and rear for both. Just hire some guy in Fresno to lace wheels on demand, something like that. Work out the parts you need to support the motors.

                          Your reply is about Bafang. It always seems to come back to Bafang. Not sure why. There are other motors. What would happen if you asked Bafang for a torque sensor on the two DIY mid-drives?

                          Comment


                            #15
                            I've had, or have them all, Except the MAC. It's on my to do list, but when you find the right girl all the rest are just, well, plain Jane. <wink> I like my Mxus geared and DD. The GP was fun, the GD EBK is nice, the Bosch a yawn, but the BBSHD just keeps bringing miles of smiles. Given the returns for the numbers sold...it's hard to get excited about all the other promises. My grumps and grinds are based on actual experience. I just can't get all grumpy about torque sensing from Bafang when there's no on else mainstreaming TS to create any competition. Why would anyone bother when the market has no demand? (beyond us curmudgeons on some forum)
                            Last edited by Louis; 04-09-2016, 04:48 PM.

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