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    Regenerative braking with Golden Motor Magic Pie

    I just ordered a Golden Motor Magic Pie V hub kit from Luna Cycle and am looking forward to trying it on my mtn bike. Where I ride there are long uphills followed by long downhills. So am hoping that the regenerative braking works well. Anyone have any experience with this? How much charging goes back into the battery when braking? When/how does regeneration kick in? Is it activated by the brake or does it work just by letting off the throttle and coasting?

    #2
    I have a direct drive hub motor, a Lyen controller and a Cycle Analyst. My regen works only after the battery charge has depleted a bit. My regen works by pressing the regen button.

    I have never regained more than about 9% of my power back via regenerative braking. Usually I get back about 2.5%. The regen is really just to save wear on your brake pads. On long down grades, you will definitely be putting a significant amount of power back into your battery.

    Comment


    • wklatt
      wklatt commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the reply. Yes, upon further research, that's what I am learning. The regen is marginal, but saving wear on the brakes is significant. And that is most important for me, too, as that is really the big issue with my long downhills on the mountain trails. Because they are rough trails, can't go fast enough to let wind resistance slow me know, so I ride the brakes a lot for extended periods of time.

    • commuter ebikes
      commuter ebikes commented
      Editing a comment
      I commute six days a week on my ebike. I would estimate that 80-90% of all my stopping power comes from regen. In about 10,000 miles, I have replaced only ONE set of brake pads, which happened to be in the rear.

    #3
    Anyone have any experience with this? - I have Smart Pie

    How much charging goes back into the battery when braking? - I don't have monitor, but i can guess that not much. Also question is - Is this healthy for Li-Ion battery?. Li-Ion charging should be very precise. BU yeah, you saving on breaking pads.

    When/how does regeneration kick in? - when you hitting break just a little bit. Breaking pads is not touching wheel but regeneration is doing his work. How I still don't know.

    Is it activated by the brake or does it work just by letting off the throttle and coasting? - by break.

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      #4
      I have a Smart Pie and a Magic Pie. Neither one will regen with a Luna pack, but they will with a cheap LiPo or a Chinese Lifepo. I'm guessing the Luna BMS is blocking the high voltage from the regen circuit, but I don't know. With a LiPo battery, the regen on the Magic Pie was impressive. Like a lot of brake. It's less with the Smart, but I feel it. You can put a standard amp hour meter in the battery circuit, but reverse the load and source, to find out how much regen has happened. I mostly just coast down the hills.

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        #5
        Weird, I guess my dolphin pack is a fluke. The brakes worked never bothered to see if there was a gain. But the braking function is there.

        Comment


        • ebikefreak
          ebikefreak commented
          Editing a comment
          Weird. According to my cycle analyst the Magic Pie regen is working with the Luna 52V, 24aH triangle pack. I can feel the regen working and the cycle analyst numbers indicate it's working. But the only indication I have is the cycle analyst I don't have anything else hooked up to measure the current flow. I typically get ~7% back plan to experiment with progressive braking and pedaling. But don't expect to ever get better than 10%.

        #6
        Yeah, I was disappointed to hear that. Good that we save on the brakes, but was also hoping the battery regen worked as well. I have some long downhills that I wanted to take advantage of (after the long brutal uphill) where I ride. The Magic Pie seemed like the perfect fit for me with helping on the uphill and then regaining some battery for the ride back home.

        Comment


          #7
          With a LiPo pack on the Magic Pie, the braking was almost too strong. Tap the brake and stop really fast. I switched that bike to the 52v Mini, 30Q version and there is nothing. The cutoff works for the speed control, and the regular brakes work, but if there is any regen braking, I can't even feel it. I spent a couple of hours on the GM Canada site trying to track this stuff down and try to understand the programming. I was a little worried this heavy regen might hurt the battery. I think this is fairly high voltage. There are some settings, but not a ton of information on how to tweak the motor and the regen. When the 30q pack ended the regen completely, that was that. If I could set the amount of braking, I would use the feature, for sure, but not for the charging.

          It's annoying because it's a real feature of the motors. To set it up you need to get into the motor controller (BT or USB cable), and there are problems with the bluetooth module. I keep saying this is a great motor, but it needs some attention to detail. Maybe a regen button. Maybe a battery pack that is set up to handle the regen. I don't know. I have my motors set up so they work. The Smart Pie still has a twitchy throttle, but I'll get a thumb throttle when they are in the store. The Smart is being used with a LiFePo pack, and I get some regen, but not enough to matter much for the braking.

          There are some settings and none of the information on the settings is organized very well. Mostly there are threads on the GM Canada Support pages, their forums going back a lot of years. Unfortunately, the versions of these motors and controllers makes old information less useful, or worthless.

          So, for these motors, a wish list: 1) straighten out the Bluetooth 2) tweak the throttle or stock the thumb throttle 3) get the components for the PAS 4) explain how to set up the PAS with the BT module (see #1) 5) Get some serious info on how to set this motor up to customer preferences 6) consider some kind of regnenerative braking components

          A lot of little details that would make the motor more attractive to people. I think the PAS would be a big plus, if it worked well.

          Comment


            #8
            I think my regen is working just fine with both my MP5 and SP5 ebikes. I set my parameter to 50% for the MP5 (mtn bike) and 30% for the SP5 (20" wheels). That was the braking resistance I was looking for. I use the Batt-Man monitor and the voltage goes up 2 or 3 volts when I apply brakes, so looks like the regen is working, too. I use 52V 13.5 Ah ncrb batteries from Luna. I am actually really happy with these Golden Motor hub ebike conversions.

            Comment


              #9
              I have had to set the regen back to 40% (from 50) on my MP5 mtn bike. Was fine on pavement, but on mtn trails, rear wheel would slide a bit on loose gravel, and a little dangerous on downhill corners.

              To be honest, I am not really happy with the MP5 as a mtn bike. That rear wheel is pretty heavy and not too maneuverable in tight quarters. And on a long steep uphill, the motor really heats up as I can't go that fast as I also have to pedal to provide sufficient power. It works better if you can go a little faster. Plus hard to keep the front wheel on the ground on a steep uphill. Then going back downhill, I sometimes have to go pretty slow (rough trail), and again the regen doesn't work unless you are going faster (> 6 mph). Also my battery doesn't last very long while mtn biking, and am in big trouble if it dies too far from my base.

              The MP5 worked great back home on the roads, where I could make use of the speed. But on a steep mtn trail, not so good.

              Comment


              • tomjasz
                tomjasz commented
                Editing a comment
                I've never seen a Direct Drive motor recommended as a MTB conversion. Geared drives are better climbers, and mid drives are the best choice.

              #10
              I am now inclined to agree with tomjasz on this. I chose the MP5 because I liked the regen capability with saving my brakes. And I have 2 front wheel SP5 folders that work great at home. But a steep mtn trail requires more agility, and low end power which the MP5 is just not best suited for. And that rear wheel sure is heavy.

              Comment


                #11
                My full suspension 2x2 mp3 mtn bike regenerates extremely effectively here in the mtns because I built a 22.2v 30ah 45c lipo pack that fits in the tight space in the frame triangle in front of the rear shock. Everyone goes for those 48v batteries and can't regenerate much untill they hit 40 mph. I regenerate hard and efficiently downhill....pedaling too...at 17 mph... automatically. The speed controller switching effects produce some regen at slower speeds when brake levers are activated....but as I slow down more and more the regen morphs into electro dynamic braking with no battery charging. The 22.2v battery climbs slower and the speed controller limits overloads on steep offroad climbs with PWM that's not as hard on the motors as a 48v battery would be. RUNS COOLER. Wish I could use a lower voltage battery to get regen on slower trails.... I'll have to modify the controller. I can't believe the amount of misinformation out there.
                Last edited by E2x2bikenut; 06-04-2017, 10:47 AM.

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                • E2x2bikenut
                  E2x2bikenut commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Since I haven't found a bms to handle my 2x2mp3ebike's serious regen rates I built my 6s6p22.2v30ah45c666wh lipo pack without it. Monitor v between 19.8-25.2v as I ride, use a balance charger between rides. Battery made from 6 disassembled/reconfigured thunderpower drone packs (WTF!). Case made from 1/16x2" angle aluminum and RTV (Silicone 1,NOT silicone 2) securely bolted to down tube. Gets 30 tested mtn miles without pedaling. Note that thunderpower high c rate batteries have a higher rated low v cutoff ,3.3v/cell instead of typical lipo at 3v/cell or even less. My 6s pack cuttoff is 19.8v and my mp3 controller cuts off at 20v,as I measured it. Good enough for my non bms pack. A typical lower c rate 6s lipo would need a cuttoff at 18v, so so my mp3 controller wouldn't be able to use the full rated capacity of such packs. Besides, I need the higher c rate charge capabilty for 2 powerfull dynamos.All this to maximize my bike regen effectiveness. It pays off in the rollercoaster mtns.
                  Last edited by E2x2bikenut; 06-05-2017, 07:54 AM.

                #12

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                  #13
                  Well, 2 MP5's is certainly more power than one... What does that bike weigh?

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                  • E2x2bikenut
                    E2x2bikenut commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Too much...115Lbs with racks carrier tool kit lights water bottle. 82 Lbs without.

                  #14
                  If you download GMs program application (https://www.goldenmotor.ca/pages/Downloads.html) and connect your motor to your computer you can adjust the regen setting. I found that the Magic Pie has a crazy strong braking ability if you set it to the max setting. It can be great if youre looking to save wear and tear on your brakes.

                  the downside is the limits that your bms will accept. On my ncrb shark, its very particular. Itll block regen if the battery is more than 80% charged. Itll also block regen if I use it too much on hot days and the battery starts to get too warm.

                  If you run into issues of the battery blocking regen, then adjust the setting to scale back the regen strength

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