Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Luna Wolf Pack battery documentation

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Luna Wolf Pack battery documentation

    Click image for larger versionName:	transparent.pngViews:	1Size:	731.0 KBID:	86536

    The Wolf Pack is the first in Luna's lineup of next-generation ebike batteries for kits.
    • Greatly increased waterproofing
    • Greatly improved impact resistance
    • True cell-level fusing
    • Wire-bonded cells connected using same technology as Tesla rather than spot-welded
    • Steel reinforcement rails built directly into pack
    • All electrical components directly on pack for greater durability vs having some on cradle
    • New neodynium magnetic mounting solution
    • Recessed bottom of pack so magnets do not add to pack height
    • Capability for highly improved theft resistance thanks to reinforcement rails
    • Uses high quality XT connectors such as would be found on our softpacks, including Spark-Resistant XT90-S on discharge
    • Made in the USA
    Waterproofing and Impact Resistance
    Unlike all previous hardcase batteries this is fully potted which greatly increases the ability to stand up to the high rigors of electric bike use including drops, crashes, and exposure to the elements.

    Cell-Level Fusing
    If something were to happen to a cell within this pack such as damage, that cell is immediately isolated from the rest of the pack. See below for further description why this is important.

    Wire-Bonded Cells
    The enemy of any battery is heat, and while spot welding is a step up from soldering onto a cell, we can do better. This battery is wire bonded using the latest in ultrasonic technology so the cell does not even get warm. Each connection is checked multiple times using automated sensors built directly into the machine for the ultimate in quality control. Thanks to this tech we build in the USA which means greater control over end product and greater access to spare parts and replacement parts. For more info click this link

    Steel Reinforcement Rails
    The rails on this battery have two separate purposes. With previous hardcase batteries we have noted that reinforcement can often be good for long-term durability so these rails were built directly into the design and zip ties can be run from these to the downtube. This not only is good for mounting within the downtube and increasing rigidity, it greatly increases the ability to mount the battery on the underside of the downtube so it is compatible with more frames.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	fetch.jpg Views:	1 Size:	60.8 KB ID:	62528Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20180503_175734.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.63 MB ID:	63697

    These rails make this one of the only kit batteries on the market we would comfortably recommend mounting on the underside of the downtube since there is not a case/cradle connection which could be compromised mounting upside down. See the picture below for an example.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	f406a7fe440b4dba9c255c369cd17e2c.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.73 MB ID:	85218

    Centralizing Electrical Components using XT connectors
    With previous hardcase packs the connection between the case and cradle was a point of vulnerability. Over time and use the contacts had the potential to get worn out and need to be readjusted, or various pollutants such as road salt could interfere with this connection. Wolf pack removes this obstacle by removing the connection between case and cradle, the discharge wiring goes directly out of the battery to the controller.

    XT90-S and XT60 connectors are standard as well. Whereas on previous hardcase batteries a charge port could wear out due to mechanical fatigue this is eliminated using an XT60. And XT90-S on discharge is the gold standard of ebike connectors utilizing an antispark design.

    Aftermarket Lock Compatibility
    (Note: Applies to v1 only, v2 revision may need rail holes widened or to use Hiplok Z Lok instead.
    New slits (there are 5 on each side now) 18mm x 2.5mm and 2 of them are 23mm x 2.5mm)
    This is also capable due to the rails. Typically a hardcase battery such as a shark uses a standard lock with a series of plastic tabs holding it in place. For regular use this is fine but a determined thief could remove the battery simply by kicking it on the side and breaking those tabs. With the new Wolf pack a special type of highly theft-resistant lock can be run through these reinforcement tabs and around the downtube thus preventing that from happening (click here for the listing)
    Click image for larger version  Name:	fetch.png Views:	1 Size:	171.8 KB ID:	62529Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20180503_162826.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.75 MB ID:	63698
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20180503_174003.jpg Views:	1 Size:	2.50 MB ID:	63699Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20180503_174054.jpg Views:	1 Size:	2.24 MB ID:	63700
    Additionally this can be locked with the Hiplock Z Lok in the same way.
    In scenarios where a lock may not be usable you can use metal cable ties and disable the release mechanism with pliers for permanently locking it onto frame

    Neodynium Magnets
    These magnets are very powerful and keep the pack affixed in place. They are around 10 mm in height and fit within the recessed bottom of the battery in such a way that it does not add to the battery height. The magnets are so strong that pulling directly up on the battery will not remove it, it must be intentionally removed by pushing the top at an angle.

    As an additional bonus because this is not a traditional cradle as typically seen on hardcase batteries, these two magnets can be moved and re-oriented with much greater flexibility for how this will be mounted. The mount holes do not need to be specifically placed in order for the the battery to be mounted to the same extent as previous versions, which means less likelihood of having to drill out the frame rather than simply using the existing water bottle bosses.

    The magnets also come with spacers that can be used to help stabilize the magnets on the frame. These are optional but if you want to use them they go between the magnet and the frame. Additional magnets are available on this listing.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	fetch.png Views:	2 Size:	175.1 KB ID:	62527Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	242.3 KB ID:	69815

    New for V2: Updated mount system

    Thisis backwards compatible with version 1 wolf and we feel is an even better improvement on mount rigidity.
    These mounts are available on this listing if you need spares.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	LUNA_WIRELESS_WOLF_V2_1_of_1__54788.1555051  716.1280.1280_1__23190.1555377740.jpg?c=2.jpg Views:	1 Size:	62.8 KB ID:	85756


    See below for a video demonstrating how to add and remove pack


    Fitment

    To create a printable mockup of latest version, download this pdf, print and cut along the dotted line.
    Tape together the edges and you have a full size mockup that can be used to see if it fits your frame


    Please take care to use US Letter for the paper size (this is the most common size)

    End result should have dimensions matching what is below.

    If the dimensions do not match the rough measurement below of roughly 14 x 4.25" then your printer settings may be misconfigured. In this event, a rough mockup can be made going off of the picture below.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	6.92 MB ID:	86571

    This is a 14s4p pack configuration but in a significantly more compact package than a comparable 14s4p (52v) Shark pack. It can fit into many places a regular shark pack cannot or should not be mounted, due to size and needing less clearance. For a video comparison of the Wolf pack to the Shark pack see below



    Troubleshooting

    The underlying architecture of the pack is closer to a softpack than a hardcase.
    Please see troubleshooting section of the Softpack Battery Documentation

    Battery Care and Storage

    This is a 52v nominal battery and uses a 52v charger. This is a chart showing how voltage relates to state of charge for reference. It can be useful to print this out and keep a copy on hand for reference. Generally for storage and usage you want to keep it between 90%-10%, and more ideally 80%-20%, and for charging you want to charge at the lowest current that is convenient, i.e. if you need to ride soon crank it up to 5A but if you have time to spare then slow charging is preferable. We recommend using the Luna Advanced charger if you want the most fine-grained control over charging.
    https://electricbike.com/forum/filedata/fetch?id=46252&d=1521089057
    For much more documentation on caring for your battery, storage, and tips for getting the most cycles out of it please see the Battery Documentation Master Repository

    Cell level fusing and why it matters

    From the moment any lithium cell leaves the factory it is subject to degradation. While there are things that can be done on a molecular level as well as an end-user level to inhibit degradation, nothing can prevent it fully. Below is a video of a dendrite forming within a cell. What is happening is this structure forms from the lithium on a molecular level between the positive and negative, consuming the liquid electrolyte in the process.



    While this is well known for being part of the cause of degradation that results in reduced lithium capacity over extended usage, there is a second potential effect from dendrite formation. The dendrite can potentially puncture the separator that is on positive and negative. If that happens the cell would be internally shorted.

    Quality cells inhibit formation due to their makeup and have a quality separator to prevent this from happening as much as possible, as does treating your battery according to the recommendations. However, given that nothing fully inhibits dendrite formation, there is a possibility that over a long enough timeline enough dendrite formation will occur as to puncture the separator and internally a short a cell. This applies equally to all lithium batteries in existence, whether the ones in your phone, laptop, or ebike.

    So how does fusing come into play?

    Typically in a battery if a cell shorts internally the other cells will dump their power into that short. This causes it to heat up extremely fast and potentially cause a fire due to the flammable electrolyte. Wolf is designed using the latest technology to automatically remove any shorted cell from the circuit, preventing a short from turning into a fire. While there are a couple companies advertising cell fusing using cheap approaches none of that has been tested or confirmed by any studies or publicly available information. By contrast wire bonding is very well studied, the mechanism is very precise and reproducible under laboratory testing conditions, and is the subject of multiple patented technologies generously donated to the public by Tesla. Do not be fooled by crude imitations.

    Given that Wolf is also fully potted to prevent impacts to cells from causing a cell to be internally shorted, this battery has multiple new safety advantages making it by far the safest ebike battery to have ever been built.
    • High quality cells to mitigate dendrite issues
    • Potting to prevent cells being shorted due to physical damage
    • Ultrasonic cell connections do not heat the cell unlike spot welding (heat is conducive to dendrite formation)
    • Cell level fusing prevents a fire in the event of an internal short due to degradation


    Potting and why it matters

    Potting is the process of pouring a liquid into the battery that then hardens, similar to epoxy. This provides an unparalleled level of impact resistance. This is done on all Luna Wolf batteries as well as all Luna Fusion batteries. See below for an example where a potted battery was ran over by a tank and thrown across a parking lot multiple times, and still functions perfectly. This is only possible with a potted battery and we would not even think of doing this with a regular battery.


    Potting also greatly increases the level of water resistance in the battery.
    See this video for a demonstration showing this battery operating underwater.


    Does potting trap heat?

    At Luna we only use the best available potting.
    While cheap potting may trap heat, quality potting will do the opposite, i.e. it is thermally conductive.
    The picture below shows a typical BBS02 mid drive bike after a hard ride.
    While the controller reached 107*F, the Wolf stayed room temperature.https://media.rivet.works/743a0888118d4875ae6fee4d1f741a37.jpeg
    FAQ
    Does the battery come with a charger?
    The battery is sold as a battery. Any 52v charger can be used to charge it as long as that charger has standard XT60 input. If you have a charger built for 52v nominal (58.8v actual output) and you want to you can change the plug to XT60 with these pigtails, just replace the original connector on that charger and ensure polarity matches.

    Can I charge via the XT90?
    The battery is intended to be charged via the XT60 inputs. We do not recommend charging via XT90 as this would bypass the battery management system.

    Can the battery be charged while connected to the rest of the system?
    Yes, you can charge the battery while the XT90 is still connected to the motor.

    See link to this battery here

    #2
    Just saw the new Wolf V2 , what are the dimensions ?

    Comment


      #3
      Good question. For the most part the dimensions are largely the same, with the exception of that raised area on the top. This bump is mostly along the middle of the top and is not overly large, so while it should not affect most folks going off of the V1 mockup PDF it does change things a bit. We should have a new printable mockup PDF available in roughly 3 weeks.

      Comment


        #4
        I have a 52v charger with a XT90 plug...can I charge the "Luna Wolf V2 52v Battery Pack" via the XT90 output plug or should it only be charged via the XT60 connector?

        The new fully potted design is awesome...super glad to see it, Thanks.

        Comment


        • paxtana
          paxtana commented
          Editing a comment
          Only charge via the XT60. Charging via the XT90 would bypass the BMS which we would not recommend (updated the above documentation with a FAQ covering these questions. These questions/answers will be deleted in a few days as they have been incorporated into the doc, just a heads up)

        #5
        I have the first Luna wolf pack which has two pig tails coming out out of the battery for motor and charger connection. My question is can the battery be connected to the motor while connecting the charger? Also is there a cap for the xt60 when I’m not charging the pack and riding in the elements?

        Comment


        #6
        What is the safest and lowest level I can discharge my Wolf pack?
        Lowest voltage?
        Lowest %
        Thanks

        Comment


        • paxtana
          paxtana commented
          Editing a comment
          The battery management system will prevent you from discharging the battery past the point of being unsafe. This is generally around 41-42, depending on the amount of sag. At that level you are effectively at 0% since any meaningful amount of current drain will cause voltage to sag below low voltage cutoff.

          As far as the lowest level for ensuring the longest battery life, you can probably triple the number of cycles from the pack if you do not take it below 20% or above 80%.

          For more info on this click here https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...ter-repository

        #7
        Excellent. Thanks for the link. That helps a bunch
        So 41-42 volts lowest discharge voltage

        I see info here on low voltage cut off limit - 39 volts
        But I am not seeing High voltage charge cutoff figures
        https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...ter-repository

        I don't have a smart charger, but I do have a watt meter on my charge and can monitor charging voltages
        Do I use the charging voltage to calculate when to cut off the battery charging if I am not charging to 100%?
        Or use the 52 volt wolf pack voltage and calculate the % from that?
        Last edited by EL34; 04-23-2019, 06:05 AM.

        Comment


        • paxtana
          paxtana commented
          Editing a comment
          You calculate SOC from pack voltage

        #8
        My 52v wolf is 56 volts when fully charged
        So do I use the 52 volt figure of the 56 volt figure?

        Comment


        • paxtana
          paxtana commented
          Editing a comment
          If it's 56 it's not fully charged. I don't know what you mean by using what figure? Where are you getting this 56v reading? Do you have a multimeter?

        #9
        Looks like a nice improvement on the already great V1 wolf packs. I really like the extra connectors on the V2.

        I own a V1 pack and am curious for both the V1 and the V2 packs is it OK to draw limited power (50W or less) from the charge connector (XT60) on the Wolf packs.
        I would like to add an LED light to an Ebike and the existing XT60 connector would be convenient.

        I realize this might bypass the discharge low cutoff. Also ti is possible that depending on the BMS switch (fets) configuration it might not like having current flow out of the battery through the charging port.

        The obvious alternative it to just add a Y cable to the battery output (XT90).

        thanks

        Comment


        • paxtana
          paxtana commented
          Editing a comment
          It would not be advisable to pull power from the xt60. It bypasses both LVC protection and more importantly, short circuit protection.

        • rkey
          rkey commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks Paxtana, That also reinforces how important it is to have a protective cap on the XT60.

          I will draw power from the XT90.

        • paxtana
          paxtana commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes, a protective cap would be good, a dab of dielectric grease would be helpful as well. I would recommend Permatex 81150.

        #10
        I 3D printed several battery supports to give the Luna Wolf battery a better footprint on the Fat Bike carbon frame.
        I did not trust the two aluminum water bottle mounts on the carbon frame.
        The battery now has 5 support areas that follow the radius of the carbon frame


        Check out the YouTube video here




        Comment


        • paxtana
          paxtana commented
          Editing a comment
          That's awesome, what kind of 3d printer did you use?

        • Eric Luna
          Eric Luna commented
          Editing a comment
          great work....i love this innovation. Really great use of 3d printing technologies.... so one thing i can recommend is if you take a screw driver and chisel off the potting where the plate the magnets hang onto it will double the strength the magnets have....

        #11
        Thanks
        I made the printer from scratch many years ago
        Here's the build info
        https://el34world.com/Misc/Cnc/CNC23.htm


        Comment


          #12
          Does anyone have some photos and directions on how to wire the battery up for use with the charger and then for use with the motor?

          Comment


            #13
            Originally posted by Troy View Post
            Does anyone have some photos and directions on how to wire the battery up for use with the charger and then for use with the motor?
            Found it!

            https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...-documentation

            Comment


              #14
              Originally posted by paxtana View Post
              Fitment
              If the dimensions do not match the rough measurement below of roughly 15 x 5.25" then your printer settings may be misconfigured. In this event, a rough mockup can be made going off of the picture below.
              I believe you're misreading the grid in the photo by counting from the 1" lines rather than the 0 origin. Those dimensions should be 14.4 x 4" according to the specs on the product page. Giving incorrect, oversize dimensions might scare off some customers who may think it will not fit their frames. Also, since this V2 PDF template is now available, you should replace the V1 template still on the product page, where it still says the V2 template is "coming soon."

              Comment


              • paxtana
                paxtana commented
                Editing a comment
                Good catch, you are absolutely right. The wording has been revised and the listing description updated. Thanks!

              #15
              My Luna Wolf Pack started to power off randomly after about 6 months and recently died completely. I suspect it could be revived with a new BMS. Does the potting make it impossible to access and replace? If not, any documentation or hints on how to open up?

              Comment


              • paxtana
                paxtana commented
                Editing a comment
                It would not be possible to change bms on any potted battery. However I would recommend to email support so we can look into it. It is very rare to see this battery fail so we would like to see why and what we could do to help.
            Working...
            X