Luna X1 advanced troubleshooting : battery and power wiring

[Monkey Bike]

I have done lots of research on wheels for the X1 and I have learned some things I would like to share to maybe help out those looking to do the same. First, I wanted to get a 38-40mm inner rim width. Rim width is huge with mountain tires, it’s a fine balance of rim and tire width. I think the original rim has a 36mm inner width and the tire looks like a ballon in comparison to my new setup. I can visibly see a difference in tire width on the wider rim and expect better traction as an added benefit. I originally thought I wanted 32 spoke hole wheel as opposed to more standard 28 hole but ended up getting a great deal from the below ebay seller locally.

I found two choices one expensive and a bit cheaper from China:

Name brand 28 hole 40mm inner width rim

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reynolds-27...955c%7Ciid%3A1


China 32 hole 38mm inner width set:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3295...33544c4dheyFVO


You can kind of see what I am talking about in this picture. See the shadow between the rim and tire tread on the stock rear wheel in comparison to the front carbon wheel.

[DB60]

Nice wheels! Thanks for the info...

[RRR]

First time poster - have wanted X-1 since announced last year, have finally got and assembled. I'm 6'1, 230lb, old time MTBer, was super excited about this bike, for all the obvious nerdy reasons. Luna is trying to do something super cool, no complaints there - and it is hard to execute. It looks cool. $4500 later, though, I am a bit worried I should have paid more and got the better refined Specialized. Am I missing something? Is there more to the setup and adjustment to make it feel right?

-Power: paid for Ludi, but honestly doesn't feel any stronger than typical 500Watt Euro Mtbikes I've ridden. Strong, but not ludicrous. How do I know if I actually got Ludi?
-Latency / power delivery: Is it just me, or does the power engage 1/2 a rotation too late every time? Fixable?
-Throttle: My wife's $1400 rad power bike has an infinitely better twist throttle setup. The little plastic lever is unwieldy, cheap, and engages clunkily as well as slowly
-Misc: the dropper has been discussed ad nauseum, but cheap. Did your guys'/gals' wheels arrive true? Mine are crazy wobbly. Brakes super soft too.

Some buyer's remorse is normal... Hoping to tap the hive's knowledge and see if with some tinkering this can be the beast I had hoped! TIA

[DB60]

I'm a new X1 owner also and I have felt the same way about spending more for the Specialized but the X1 has way more power and you can almost get two X1's for the price of a similarly equipped Levo. My Power assist starts within a 1/8 rotation just like everybody else's. The throttle works fine on mine, it reminds me of the left thumb throttle I used to have on my old 550 jetski. If you're an old MTBer like me then I would think you only need to use the throttle occasionally anyway. I don't think you want a twist throttle on this type of an Enduro Bike. My dropper post works good for me for now, first time I've had one though. I guess it can't have all high quality components for the price of the bike. My wheels seem pretty good for now as well but they could probably use a little adjustment. The Saint brakes are very high quality, I haven't had any issues with them other than the front caliper rubbing slightly. Much more info to be had in all the previous posts here, endless-sphere.com and on Facebook fast electric bike forum. Enjoy it...

[bhaaf]

You don’t get full power with the throttle unless your in PAS 5. The throttle is regulated by the level of PAS your in. I’d like full throttle in all levels of PAS.

[aemonn]

My motor has the B in Bafang blacked out with a sharpie indicating that it is a Ludi. Also as others have noted, this bike is not geared for high top speed, but for torque. Get on a hill with a 45-50 degree grade and see how quickly and effortlessly it throws you up the hill. That's where the 2000w are coming from.

With a 38 tooth chain ring and in the 11 in back I could hit around 30mph with throttle only. I swapped back to the stock 32 tooth as the 38 taco'ed after I hit it on one too many stumps. I find the motor is tuned better for a 32 tooth anyway. If you find the motor is toggling on / off that's a sure fire indication you're in too high of a gear. It's easy to forget you're in a high gear with this bike. If you keep a higher cadence you'll find the motor smooths out and you'll put less stress on everything down the line.

Again, in my experience this bike is really designed to go 5-15/20mph on trails up steep inclines. Not 25mph+ on a flat.

[RRR]

Thanks for comments thus far. took it for more real-world ride today. Must say, all my early concerns and trepidation about a generic chinese frame are gone - the suspension and geometry rival my nice and much more expensive Santa Cruz. With effort I could eventually even wheelie a bit. But my worries about motor persist.

-My top indicated speed, full battery, PAS 5, highest gear, flat land no wind at 60degrees F is 21.3 MPH. That can't really be all she's got, can it?
-The watt indicator on computer says 121-128 watts max. Is there another setting other than current for such info? What are you seeing?
-still trying to learn how/if can verify ludicrous mode without precarious case removal/tape/wires/multimeter
-the delayed assist cutoff (1-2 strokes after pedaling stopped) is super disconcerting on technical spots. Or cliffs. Not letting others ride this on tricky trails EVER.

I guess I'm wondering if my electronics could somehow be compromised and below the standard of others' bikes... Just seems impossible to believe this is the 2000W dream everyone else loves. Really want to support this bike, am impressed with Luna on may fronts, but not ok that my wife passes me with her cheapo 120lb radpowerbike 2 wheeled-shopping cart while lugging kids and a dog trailer...

[paxtana]

You can change the chainring on it for higher speed

Reported power output with ludi is half of actual as extensively covered already. The controllers are typically marked if they are Ludi. They take a sharpie and put a black mark right on the controller, one of the letters on it. I can not promise that will be there but it usually is for ludi.

[Michael Long]

When you say top gear, have you adjusted the derailleur to allow the 11T, or are you topping out on the 13T? That could explain your top speed issue right there. I’m getting to around 26-27mph on throttle only, and I can break 30 with all out pedaling on windless flats. This is pavement, not dirt.

I know it’s not ideal, but sticking to PAS 3 out of 5 or lower virtually eliminates the motor carryover after you stop pedaling.

[DB60]

I haven't checked my watt indicator yet but that does seem pretty low even if that's half but I think you might not see the high watt readings until you put a considerable load on it like climbing steep hills? I have adjusted the derailleur to the 11T and it definitely helps but my chain skips a little in level 3 of 5. It's ok in level 2 but too much torque in level 3 I guess. I put on a 38T front sprocket with a longer chain which helps top speed. It goes plenty fast for an enduro bike. I have a little power carry over in level 3 of 5 but not that big of a deal. These bikes are fantastic for off-road technical trails, they're not built for speed on the street. I really enjoy mine so far...

[DASSXF]

I just bought my Luna X1 bike and I have noticed That the pedals hit the ground at the slightest of turns. The stock pedals that come with the X1 seem to be higher profile. Would anybody recommend a lower profile pedal that would eliminate this problem?

[DB60]

The crank arms are long for leverage and when turning, your outside pedal should be down for more clearance and traction. The stock pedals should be upgraded but I don't think you will find anything that much lower profile. I think the bottom bracket height on these frames should have been a little higher also...

[Mike Eatough]

I bought a set of pedal taps ($18) & shortened my crank arms to 150mm, no more strike

[aemonn]

Has anyone been able to source replacement crank arms that fit the M600? I'd like to try this out, but not without an easy way of going back to stock. I imagine shortening the cranks would have an effect on the interplay with the motor tune as your cadence will increase at any given speed.

[DB60]

Cadence will not change, you'll have less leverage with shorter crank arms so motor will have to work harder. Less mileage...

[aemonn]

Gotcha, makes sense now that I think about it. Not sure why I was thinking cadence would be affected.

[Mike Eatough]

I predict (guess) that one day, shorter cranks will become a "thing" for e-bikes compared to regular bikes.
Also, a 29er front wheel (with the appropriate forks) would be a good thing for X1 pedal clearance. I think it may have been originally designed to be a 29 front 27.5 rear. I wonder if Luna ever tried that?

[bhaaf]

It’s seems like there’s a market for some company to manufacture some shorter crank arms. I’ll take a pair.

[Monkey Bike]

The Yari fork on the X1 is already made to accept 29” wheels. 27.5+ and 29 inch tires have similar circumstances

[TjS]

Hi everybody -

I just received my X1 (medium, red).

A few notes and questions:
- I am 6'0" and could have probably gone with a large instead of medium. Its right on the border of being too small.
- My charger is making a loud humming noise and getting really warm. Does anybody else experiences this? (Sound recording: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q15vgbhks4...noise.m4a?dl=0)
- My dropper is constantly dropping. I saw this video but it did not do the trick. It wasn't until I removed the entire trigger at the bottom of the dropper that it would stay fully extended. But without the trigger it will also obviously not drop anymore. Does anybody have a fix for this?
- The front brake pads have a constant contact. Is there any adjustment to fix this? I aligned the pads but without success - I can still feel and hear a resistance (the rear tire in comparison is spinning nice and free).

Thanks a lot!

[TjS]

DB60 - I ended up pushing in the caliper which fixed my issue.
Check out this video: https://youtu.be/4wGMDjqNieg

Did a couple proper rides now and have to say the Medium feels good. I am also riding a large SC Tallboy.
Had a lot more pedal strike than on my SC. Could be due to ridding much rockier uphill than what I could manage without the motor ;)

[DB60]

TjS Thanks for the brake tip. I have more pedal strikes on my X1 also. I think it has a lower bottom bracket height than comparable travel mountain bikes. I notice some people shortening their cranks but I don't think that's a good idea in case you need to pedal this 55 lb bike without power assist, you'll want that stock 170mm crank length.

[Robocam]

That noise from your charger doesn't sound normal. Did you do anything about it?

[aemonn]

Photo from a recent ride to add some images to the thread. Loving the bike. After about a 16-20 mile fairly technical ride I find I'm at about 70% battery--use mostly assist 1-3. Actually, never more than 3 and 3 only on fire roads between trails. I see the assist levels sort of like a front derailleur. Definitely need to make sure I downshift a bunch before going to #3 on a technical incline or I end up plowing into everything.

[Tigweld]

Grease suggestions?
I can't seem to find any details on what grease is best to use on the m600.
My X1 has 1300 miles now and seems to be getting louder as I pile on more miles.
Any suggestions appreciated.

[Robocam]

Luna suggested Mobil 28. You might want to clean out the existing grease in case it's not compatible. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XH7XRTD

[OCRoadie]

Picked up an X1 on 1/17 and am having a few issues:

• I paid for Ludi but based on a couple of comments here am not convinced I have it. My bike Will Not Exceed 25 MPH under power, throttle or PAS. I put a 42 T Chainring on it and am still only getting 25 MPH.
• Somewhat related to the first issue, when pedaling, in ANY assist level I can feel the motor cut off at 25 MPH
• Occasionally the bike won't turn on, I've found that unplugging/plugging in the display fixes that issue. Pretty sure I shouldn't need to do this :-(

[DB60]

25 mph top speed normal. It's a 48V power assist enduro Enduro bike, it's not built for speed. Ludi just gives it more torque. See other posts.
Probably loose connector, cable not enough slack, getting pulled out a little?

[Robocam]

Mine doesn't stop assisting at 25 but I have heard others say theirs does, so I don't know what's going on. You might want to contact customer service about the turn on issue.

[kite_rider]

Happy new X1 owner (with Ludicrous) who has been taking this bike on several long rides on rocky technical single track. First, I'm thrilled with the stock gearing selection on this bike. It seems to be geared well for trail riding and the lowest gear is just right for steep technical climbs. I've got other bikes for high speed rides down flat bike paths and am glad this bike isn't geared (by default) for that. It's what I didn't like about my BBS02 - it was geared too high by default for my use.

Like many others, I had to adjust the cable on the dropper post to keep it from sagging lower on rides. It's working great now. I also adjusted my riding style to avoid the many pedal strikes that occur with this combo of cranks and frame geometry. The pedal assist seems to have too narrow useful range. When I had it set to 5 levels I was always in either level 2 or level 3. Level 2 seems to ride more or less like a 'normal' mt bike (with some power to offset the extra weight of the bike) and level 3 seems to be a nice level of assist to get up the longer hills. I've never used (or needed) a higher level. I switched to 9 power levels, but seem to be limited to only using levels 4 and 5 much like I was using levels 2 and 3 in the 5 level setup. Ideally it would be great if the power levels could be adjusted for more granularity over a certain power range. For example, it would be wonderful if the power delivered between levels 4 and 5 could be set to be spread out over all nine levels.

The biggest issue I have with the bike is the delay between the pedal torque and the power delivery. Others have already mentioned this and I agree that having a surge of power after you stop pedaling can be scary in technical terrain (like when riding through a rock garden). On the BBS02 I could use the brake lever to cut off motor power when needed, but there doesn't seem to be a way to address this on the X1. I really hope someone will start hacking this system to allow users to tinker with the settings.

Finally, I think I'm the only person who appreciates that the throttle is proportionate to the pedal assist level. I should note that I almost never use the throttle, only when walking the bike over big rocks or really steep terrain. On the BBS02 the throttle was 'full power' and would send so much power to the wheel that the bike would jerk and leap around in this tricky terrain. This setup makes walking the bike over rough terrain much easier. I hope this doesn't get changed - or better yet - that it becomes user settable. I would actually tune it down to even less power! :-)

[Michael Long]

You can buy and install (with a little effort) an e-brake if you find it’s too troubling for you. I believe also the first quarter or so of travel in the throttle is a dead zone where you can manually cut off power, but that’s not necessarily practical in tight situations.

I agree it would be nice if we had any control whatsoever over the programming. It’s rather frustrating that bafang locked it up to where even Luna can’t change it. In case you didn’t know though, if you lower the assist level all the way down to below zero, it enters walk mode where the throttle gives just enough to move the bike at a walking pace. I haven’t tested to see if it’s strong enough to walk up rocks, but it’s still helpful to know about.

[bhaaf]

On your comment on the way the throttle works on your BBS02 I suspect you have the Bafang throttle problem. If you purchased it within the last few years you probably need the throttle fix. If the throttle is smooth and linear when not peddling but jerky using the throttle while peddling, you need the fix.

[kite_rider]

MichaelLong - thanks for the feedback. I'll look closer at the M600 motor to see where I would plug in the brake sensor (if this motor accepts one). I'm guessing this would be a magnet and sensor like the ones used on BBSHD/02 for disk brakes. This would be a good temp fix for me, but in an ideal world I'd have the latency reduced from the torque sensor so it applies power immediately when pedaled and none when we stop pedaling.
bhaaf - thanks for the tip on the BBS02 throttle problem. Indeed, it was purchased years ago with a modified controller with high current FET's. It's made an old heavy fat bike a dream to ride through sand, snow, and steep hills. A 'throttle fix' would be a welcome addition since it's so touchy like I mentioned. I'll play around with 'walk mode' on my current bike, but usually when I'm in this situation I'm off the bike with both hands on the brakes and just barely hanging on a steep slope by the cleats on my bike shoes. The throttle on the X1 is nice that it applies smooth power to back wheel and not too much to help walk the bike over these obstacles.

[Monkey Bike]

Anyone have a fix for the battery flopping around in the frame? When I push on the top of the battery pack it moves up into the frame a few mm

[paxtana]

Foam tape is often used for that sort of thing in the automotive sector. It is made in a wide variety of lengths and widths depending on what sort of gap you want to fill.

[aemonn]

This doesn't happen at all with my bike. My battery sits flush with the frame and cant be pressed in any further. It's a tight fit and I often need to bounce the front wheel while engaging the key to drop the battery out. I wonder if the clearance on your bike isn't as tight? Either that or maybe something with the lock.

Maybe try adding some layered electrical tape on the sides inside the battery insert cavity, tapered so that there are more layers the further in you go? I'd imagine you only need to add a couple millimeters worth, and this would make it so it's still easy to get the battery in.

Though, if yours isn't as tight fitting, I would be more concerned with water/mud ingress than any rattling.

[aemonn]

I upgraded my rear shock to a Fox DPX2--very worth while upgrade for anyone considering it. Not sure how accurate, but In firm setting I feel there are significantly less pedal strikes--I didn't particularly feel any excessive pedal bob with the Monarch R, but apparently it was there (I'm using the same % sag, but the DPX2 is much more firm in both firm and lockout mode).

I also added volume spacers to the front and rear shock to make it more progressive which I'm much happier with.

[Monkey Bike]

What stroke size did you get your Fox DPX2 in? The X1 stock shock stroke is 57mm and the fox comes in at most 55mm in 210 eye to eye length. Shortening the stroke makes the rear end sit higher in the suspension travel which may lead to less pedal strikes...

[aemonn]

The DPX2 does come in a 200x57, you need to buy the non metric size measured at 7.875 x 2.25 which is the same as 200x57, and is what I have.

Going with the shorter stroke length also results in a slightly higher leverage ratio which would likely affect where it sits in the suspension travel as well.

[bradleyland]

I just passed 700 miles on my X-1. Has anyone here had their motor open to re-grease it? I'm curious when everyone thinks it's necessary. I've ridden plenty in wet conditions, but I don't submerse my motor, so water ingress shouldn't be an issue.

[kite_rider]

I was out riding mine yesterday and thought it was starting to make more gear noise. No experience (yet) on re-greasing and I'm not even sure what grease to use. I've got a lot of Mobilgrease 28 around my shop for my other Ebikes and would like to use it on the X1 even though I don't have the plastic gear (yet!). Just saw the announcement that this is now available and am very tempted. I'm a big DIY kind of person and am happy they are planning to offer the gear on its own since I'd like to open up my motor for service anyway. So I'll probably grease my gears when I swap them out, but would love it if someone would post a pictorial first.