Luna X1 advanced troubleshooting : battery and power wiring

[steelersmb]

I just got the chance to take my bike out and ride for a bit. I noticed that the front brake rotor is rubbing up against the brake. Is this anything to worry about?

Also, I'm a bit disappointed in Luna because I pre-ordered my bike months ago when it said there was no throttle for the ludicrous mode so I ordered the standard version. They decided to include the throttle now and I feel that they should have at least emailed people to let them know that a throttle is included now so I could have had the choice to change my selection.

Has anyone found a place to mount a water bottle?

[paxtana]

Are you saying the rotor is bent or warped in some way? If it's just rubbing loosen the bolts on the caliper until the caliper can move around, then pull the brake lever and have someone continue holding the lever while you tighten the bolts. When you pull the lever it auto centers so it's fairly straightforward.

The throttle decision was a freebie decision at the last minute while also getting the bikes out the door asap. The bikes were already past the first eta so that probably played a factor. Sorry about that. We might be able to coordinate with you on some sort of solution if you want to contact support@lunacycle.com attn: Gary so I can see what we can do to help.

[steelersmb]

The rotor seems to be bent because when I ride I can see it and it looks warped. I may contact support about the other issue after I have a chance to ride some more.

[Brando]

CHECK FRONT WHEEL SPACERS - one on each side of the front axle. 
Let us know if that fixes it. thanks

[350XC-F]

I just got the chance to take my bike out and ride for a bit. I noticed that the front brake rotor is rubbing up against the brake. Is this anything to worry about?

Also, I'm a bit disappointed in Luna because I pre-ordered my bike months ago when it said there was no throttle for the ludicrous mode so I ordered the standard version. They decided to include the throttle now and I feel that they should have at least emailed people to let them know that a throttle is included now so I could have had the choice to change my selection.

Has anyone found a place to mount a water bottle?

H!

Ordered my X-1 on Friday, so I have no first hand experience (yet!), but I just read the this review https://electricbike-blog.com/2019/1...hCRTdXqWg1gRk8 in it he claims if the front wheel spacers are not installed when putting the front wheel on, then the caliper will rub against the rotor when tightening the front axle. Could this be your issue?

[steelersmb]

H!

Ordered my X-1 on Friday, so I have no first hand experience (yet!), but I just read the this review https://electricbike-blog.com/2019/1...hCRTdXqWg1gRk8 in it he claims if the front wheel spacers are not installed when putting the front wheel on, then the caliper will rub against the rotor when tightening the front axle. Could this be your issue?

I don't think so. It seems like my front wheel spacers where on already but the rotor seems warped, probably during shipping or something because when I ride, I can see how it is not rotating in a straight line.

[bl2000watts]

I got down to the bottom of it I believe. So basically, Bafang is the only one that can actually change anything. All a dealer can do is request features, but Bafang ultimately edits the program and provides it to the dealer for flashing (uploading) onto the motor controller. Someone really needs to hack this drive so that we can program it =) But honestly, aside from a few minor personal preference-related things, I really like the way it's already programmed. The torque sensor feels really good.

I agree, I really like how responsive the torque sensor is right now - I wouldn't change it.

[Robocam]

Regarding the noise of the M600 on the Ludicrous X-1, I went on a ride with a couple of my friends yesterday, and I asked them if they could hear the motor when they were in front of me. One said he could not hear it, and he was within arms reach at times, and the other said he could hear a low hum, but I think he was hearing tire noise. Based on that, I don't think other riders will hear anything, and hikers shouldn't hear a thing as soon as you're a few feet away. Any sound it makes should dissipate within a very short distance.

[Robocam]

I made more gear charts showing what speeds one can expect to reach using the stock 32T chainring a 38T and a 40T.

Changes I've made include increasing the cadence and removing the 11T cog since it's locked out.

[bradleyland]

I had a similar idea to Robocam the other day, so I built a chart with 32,38,40 chainring options in one graphic.

[bradleyland]

I took the bikes out on the trail with my wife. I was really excited and I really really wanted to like the bikes. I unfortunately there are just too many issues.

1) As discussed above, the noise was just very high and very off putting.

2) The power levels are weird. It felt like I was riding a poorly tuned prototype. Levels 1 and 2 are basically useless. I found them to be the same as riding a regular bike. Just enough power to make it feel like a normal bike. Then 3 is insanely powerful nearly the same as 4, 5, and boost. I could barely tell the difference between the upper levels. I really wanted a goldi locks level of power. Maybe with out the ludicrous upgrade 3 would have felt better. Either way it was either too low power to be useful (levels 1 and 2) under 100 watts on the display. Or waay too much, over 500 hundred watts on the display. I also tried the 9 level settings it was the same issue anything 4 or under was useless and anything over 5 was too much.

3) The cords in the display units won’t stay in. My wife’s came out 6 times during the ride and mine came out 8 times. I jammed them in as hard as a I can and still got periodic turn offs that required you to rejam the plugs. They never fell out but just came loose enough to lose connection

The above three issues together are a deal breaker for me. Combined with the seat post issues I will be sending them back :(

That's interesting. I've had the exact opposite experience. The PAS seems tuned for off-road, but on-road is a bit goofy at times. I have the Ludi X-1, and the PAS works great on the trails I ride. Admittedly, I'm in South Florida, so my trails are pretty different. You've either got sand, matted pine needles, or matted mangrove seeds. All of these are pretty soft surfaces, which provide a lot more rolling resistance than a groomed trail. Under these conditions, my PAS has been absolutely fantastic. I went for a ride through the woods this morning and I maintained a 128 bpm avg heart rate on a 3.5 mile ride using nothing but PAS 3/5 and the occasional throttle blip to carry me through a sandy berm. The PAS feels damn near perfect. I ride to/from the trails with PAS 2, then kick it up to 3 on the trail.

[Robocam]

I agree that the torque sensor feels awesome! In the past with my previous bike, I would use the throttle to help every once in a while but on the X-1, I never had to do that. If I needed more power, I could just pedal harder, and it would provide more than enough power. And in case you're worrying that it will provide too much assist, worry not because level 1 and 2 (out of 5) provide very little assist. This was one of my greatest concerns at the beginning but now that I have the bike, I just love the way it feels.

[350XC-F]

Hi!

I just ordered my X-1 last Friday and can't wait for it to get here! I do have a question for those who got in on the last preorder though. Did Luna charge your credit card at the time of pre-order or when the bike actually shipped? My card already had the credit go through, I was assuming they would just put a hold on my card and then process the payment once the bike actually shipped. I'm not getting my panties in a bunch just yet, I was just curious as normally a business would not charge for an item they don't actually have in stock until it actually ships.

[paxtana]

All orders are charged at the time the order is placed so the payment can be insured by Signifyd ahead of time. I do not know how large corporations put holds on credit cards but that is not something Luna has the capability to do.

[Brando]

x-1 OPTIONS or M600 offerings - my suggestions [warning: I have little to no actual ebike experience test rides only - [my ride currently 2014 Kona DEW 3x8 gears]

12 speeds system how about a 10 speed system?? steel cassette lower cost?? enough gears?? more robust?? reliability??
Aluminium Frame ?? is cost saving significant??
Hard Tail savings significant?? Call HT a touring model ?? yes some of us like racks

IGH - I'd pray Luna can help get the price more reasonable - but then perhaps 14-speed IGH already is as low as it can get??
Rohloff or Kindernay IGH 14 speed - [side note: would these work better in Hard Tails??]

continue working on forks and brakes - great job, keep up the good work

52 volt batteries - kind of surprised you haven't offered already - I guess this shows just how great your x-1 offering already is.

But I don't understand complexities of batteries & electronics (cost/performance/value) many of us depend on Luna to offer the best - so far seems by far the best battery packs.

I keep reading - even the pros & cons of carbon vs aluminium is still a bit mysterious to me. Steel chromoly seems under appreciated.

enough of my ramblings - just a few random thoughts - Luna probably thinks about all these ideas much of the time.

[black as company color is of course a fine idea - people can paint or sticker up to personalize]
Love the Gates Carbon Belt Drives - I have on order for my Black Edition Sur Ron ! The more I read about the Sur Ron, the more special it seemed.

I like peddling, so I'm destined to be a 3 vehicle owner - wasteful American - 2 electrics and one manual bike - but no gasoline for 1.5 years and counting.
{gasoline/oil/insurance/parking savings are paying for my electrics

[paxtana]

This particular bike has so many gears because it is built for Enduro riding where you want a lot of gear range. Yes you generally do get more life out of a chain when using lower speed chains with mid drives. I would bet you could swap out the chainring/derailer/shifter for something else if you wanted to.

This bike is an Enduro, we do have several hardtail bikes already but they are not built for the same thing. I don't think anyone that does actual enduro riding is using a hardtail. That said, hardtails certainly have their place, especially for light trail riding and commuting.

On the metal used, steel would cause it to weigh a lot, which would not handle well for what this is built for.

[Brando]

OK, being nit-picky - I know people can change their bikes equipment to what ever they want. These random thoughts were for future offerings by Luna - probably stupid for me to even suggest - you guys live bikes. ...on with my nit-picking...
Seems you can only use 11 of 12 gears on x-1 (clearances of some kind). A 55 lbs bike - 10 to 12 speed is hardly a measurable weight difference. And only Luna can calculate the weight/cost differences of 10 vs 11 vs 12 speeds.

Same for Frame Carbon vs Al.

Considering the obvious passions of Eric & Ashley & paxtana Josh, Karl etc....all the people I read & see on YouTube clips - all probably already consider these different trade offs.
As I have only considered these different options these last few months. So to me, seems like more insight than it actually is. Sorry for the distraction.

And it may well be - kind of seems like it - that Luna is similar to Tesla in offering the high performance and leave the lower cost options to the big retailers.
I'm starting to think Luna demand not the problem - but meeting the demand, making the products the bigger problem.
Just now realizing how quickly Sur Rons, Fixie, x-1 sell out after start to take orders. Great values and knowledgeable buyers seem to realize it. I'm not so knowledgeable - lack actual experience/exposure and trying to make up for it by reading forums and talking with others.

I've gone from one bike and now added two electrics. Never thought I'd bother with 3 vehicles (kinda stopped using car 1.5 years ago)
The only thing I suspect I might like to have/use is the 14 speed IGH. The high price I haven't justified yet. Perhaps if I get a chance to actually try one, I might be hooked. For now, learning my two new electrics should keep me more than busy.

I just committed to finding an electric to better keep up with traffic - 25 to perhaps 35 mph. Soon I'll actually have two bikes to get some experience. The last 3 months have been fun & interesting. I hope I can spread the word about electrification of transport & efficiency buy example. Luckily I'm retarded or retired - I forget. Have the time help spread the word.

Thanks for all your hard work. good luck, keep up the good fight.

[joaklay]

Can anyone explain how Luna claims the M600 in the X-1 is 750 watts when elsewhere, it's supposedly rated at only 500 watts? The M620 is 750W but that's not what we have.

[tomdav]

Bafang officially rates the M600 at 500W: https://www.bafang-e.com/en/oem-area...r/mm-g521500c/

Luna indicates 750W with standard config (1000W peak) and 2000W with the ludi controller. I'm guessing 2000W is peak since the ludi controller just doubles the standard current. Granny config is listed at 300W. I'm not sure why it's lower because presumably granny config is just the standard controller with cutoff at 20 mph to make it class 1 instead of 28 mph which is what my display indicated as the cutoff (standard config). I'm not sure if it actually cuts out at 28 mph, rumors are it kicks in at 25 mph (not due to gearing per non-X1 owners with the M600). FWIW, I'm hearing the bikes with the ludi controller show 56 mph cutoff on the display (double the standard config).

[paxtana]

Bafang also rates BBSHD at 750w directly on the motor.
But if you do the math you can see it's kinda bullshit, as are most power ratings. If you had a fully charged 52v nominal battery with BBSHD that is 30A x 58.8v = 1764W peak. Even with 48v at 50% SOC that would still be 30A x 48v = 1440W peak.

Clearly Bafang makes up whatever ratings suits them to some extent. Putting aside it is rated that because we requested it when we had them develop BBSHD, the average can be anywhere depending on how it is ridden, given the peak is double the actual rating. Most ebike parts manufacturers make similarly arbitrary ratings for continuous output, as well as plenty of other figures depending on the situation. Look at the manufacturer specs from Cyclone sometime, they are all over the place. From what I hear even Bosch does it.

If you really want to calculate the average continuous wattage you would want something like a Batt-Man wired up on discharge and to run the bike over long periods of time, varying terrain, different gears and so on, and let it come up with an average. Clearly Luna believes that average is closer to 750w than 500w. I would be more inclined to believe Luna over Bafang but it is not like it would be particularly difficult to do the testing yourself. But again, the results are going to be pretty subjective depending on everything from rider weight to how much air is in the tires.

[tomdav]

Right, I'm not disputing it. Just saying the other sites are likely parroting the official Bafang spec. Nominal watt ratings are meaningless IMHO. For example, on paper you would think the standard config at 750W is 3x more powerful than a 250W euro marketed motor. Not really.

[steelersmb]

I have a slight problem. Apparently the front axel was tighted too much and is now stripped and I have no way of getting the front wheel off. Does anyone have any ideas? I wonder if there is enough to grab onto if I get a pair of vice grips to grip the end of the axel.

[steelersmb]

Thanks for your help but as I said, I was able to cut through the axel and it worked. However, Luna said that it will be a few weeks now to get a new spacer. Surely you should be able to order these from somewhere.

[Robocam]

If you don't use a torque wrench, it may be easy to overtighten the axle and run into issues like this, so you might want to consider a QR axle, one with a handle. https://www.ebay.com/itm/110-15mm-Qu...Ys4j9VG5hchg7Q

[paxtana]

If you have a picture of the spacer along with diameter/thickness we can try sourcing it on the net for you

[jmbach]

For those who have their bikes already
1) Is there any kind of connector for the throttle that would allow it to be easily disconnected?
2) is there a way to set max speed through the display?
Just thinking about trails that have Class restrictions and how to best appease the non-ebike crowd.

[Robocam]

You can just unplug the throttle. Here's where the connection is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7-VXKLkwZ0&t=13m41s Just out of curiosity, why would you need to do this?

[tomdav]

It could matter for liability reasons if you got in an accident. More so on shared pathways where you could injure a pedestrian, but I suppose you could hit another bike on the trail. Standard config X1 is not street legal unless you unplug the throttle.

[jmbach]

Not saying I want to, more checking in case folks do start checking, and as tomdav says, for liability it could be important. Showing someone that the throttle is disconnected might deter them from checking the max speed. And thanks for the link to the video.

[steelersmb]

I have a slight problem. Apparently the front axel was tighted too much and is now stripped and I have no way of getting the front wheel off. Does anyone have any ideas? I wonder if there is enough to grab onto if I get a pair of vice grips to grip the end of the axel.

It looks like it's 15mm thick but I can't get a good read on the diameter.

[paxtana]

Going to need to assign this to our lead technician to source it, do you have the case# sent to you in the email when you spoke with Support

[steelersmb]

Yes, the case number is #166145. I chatted with someone online earlier today. Thank you.

[paxtana]

Thanks, he'll get back to you on email.

[bl2000watts]

It also matters from a criminal law point of view and fines. I am from Canada and in Canada a "Power Bicycle" is defined by federal legislation across the country as:

.....has one or more electric motors that have, singly or in combination, the following
characteristics:

(i) it has a total continuous power output rating, measured at the shaft of each motor,
of 500 W or less,

(ii) if it is engaged by the use of muscular power, power assistance immediately ceases
when the muscular power ceases,

(iii) if it is engaged by the use of an accelerator controller, power assistance
immediately ceases when the brakes are applied, and

(iv) it is incapable of providing further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of
32 km/h on level ground,

Thus the Luna X-1 does not qualify as a power bicycle and instead falls under the "moped" definition which requires registration and insurance. In Alberta, where I live, operating without insurance brings a fine of $2,875. OUCH.

The reality however is this is a mountain bike and as such I will only be riding it in the mountains so: a) no one is out in the Rocky Mountains checking bikes for motor sizes, b) if they are, they won't be able to catch me on the Luna X-1! :)

[Ramipril]

Hello fellow Albertan! See you in the mountains!