Luna X1 advanced troubleshooting : battery and power wiring

[K442]

Interesting development... first I'd heard of the tool and firmware direct from Luna. Would be good to get more info, though.

Last I knew a person still had to 'hack' an account with Bafang to get the software to work... set up a fake local server on your computer and direct the software to contact that server and OK the hacked account? (...or something to that effect.... apologies if I butchered the process, not a comp sci major!)

Also curious what exact firmware this is... presumably, any given bike would have one version, by default, so that leaves two others. Do they all work for ludi and non ludi? neither? , or one specific for ludi, one specific for non?

[paxtana]

The executable we are providing has an offline option when you open it, making it a lot easier to use

[Desmodromic]

350XC-F / K442 - I started a thread over in the General section to have a place where we can talk about using the BESST tool and to share feedback on the different firmware options:

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/general-discussions/118423-x-1-m600-besst-firmware-programming

[Bazza]

Anyone know where I can get these quickly, crank arm retainer? I ordered some but they are over a week out. Be sure to check these, mine flew off yesterday with the crank arm.

[paxtana]

there's a brand called kresc on ebay that sells m15 crank bolts

[Bazza]

You don't have any at Luna shop?

[paxtana]

We definitely have them at the luna shop. You said you wanted to get one quickly. If you do not need it quickly just let me know your order#. If you do need it quickly order an m15 crank bolt online and select a fast shipping option.

[bengreens]

Wondering if anyone has installed a Gearsensor unit (link below) on their X-1. From the description and some of the reviews, it looks like it could solve one half of the PAS lag problem, namely, the delay in motor cutoff when you stop pedaling, which can result in hard shifts in the higher PAS levels. (Yes, I've tried the goose-the-throttle-for-a-second technique, and found it an entirely unsatisfactory method) https://lunacycle.com/gearsensor-for-bafang-mid-drives/

[bengreens]

I don't know about a brake sensor connector on the M600, but the only brake sensor solution I could see offered by Luna (and I'm not looking it up to see if it was specifically intended for the X-1, as I have a pizza coming) involved using a hot glue gun or epoxy to affix the magnet or sensor to the brake lever area, and this did not enthuse me. Nor does the idea of applying brake (or pressure on brake lever) every time I want to shift.

[bengreens]

I went ahead and ordered a Gearsensor tonight, along with the BESST tool and firmware files to flash my X-1 to 14.6, or whichever of the three firmwares offered works best. Will post Gearsensor evaluation once it's installed and bike is up and running. At which point I'll also be selling my first X-1, the medium frame. Lots of rain in the forecast . . . hope the Christmas rush doesn't slow shipments too much!

[MTNYC]

no break sensor on the X-1

[Bazza]

Haha! I started a ticket. We will see

[UCR1]

I’ve seen a few people mention creaking/popping from their X1 frames...

Your situation may vary, but here’s what I did to correct mine.... (my wife’s small does not creak or pop, my large did from the first ride)

I removed the rear shock (release all air pressure first and support the bike in the air) and lubed the two bolts that secure the shock to the frame. I used a white lithium grease (from my research it is carbon fiber safe). I put the grease on everything associated with those two bolts / two ends of the shock. The creaking and popping is gone.

The two bolts had a few spots that indicated some light wear so I made sure that was well greased. I also made sure not to over tighten the bolts after reassembly. It can bind the shock...

Hope this helps someone.

[alosip]

Should I believe build-in battery led meter or my display?
When my display shows that battery is at 50% my battery led meter shows only one green light(10-15%?) Which is more accurate battery led meter or the display?

[K442]

The display can read any integer percentage, 0-100%, believe the battery has 4 green LEDs, one red, (5 total) so possibly ~20% per LED? (unless there is reference somewhere that one green means 10-15% left??) So the display definitely has the edge in precision. Even if the LEDs are more accurate, they only have 4-5 key steps (LED on or off) so you could easily be 'in between' a step where the display is showing a pretty good representation of capacity, but the +/- 10% range hasn't been met to trigger the next LED.

If the battery shows "one green" (and presumably the one red?) that might suggest at least 40%(?) maybe even close to 50%, with the possibility charging over 50% might tend to turn on the next LED, for three total... red, green, green, possibly indicating you're in the 60% neighborhood?

Guess two ways to test would be to charge the battery just a bit, see if ~60% trips the next LED. Or take a battery voltage measurement and see about where you are in the charge. That could act as a referee to see if the display or LED is closer to the truth.

[EL34]

Just a note on meters displaying %.
% is pretty useless because you don't know what the % is based on

Li-On's can be charged to 4.2 volts
From what I have seen on my X1 , the % is not based on that figure
You can be showing 100% even as the voltage dips down towards 3.6 volts

Battery voltage tells the whole story and is way more accurate

The 860C meter upgrade can display voltage

[alosip]

Was it worth $90 in your opinion to upgrade the display?

[bengreens]

Absolutely worth the $ for the better display, IMO. For one thing, I can now see the readout while wearing polarized sunglasses, and can make out most of the information without squinting (ie, bigger characters). Resetting the tripmeter is a breeze (just hold down + and - for a few seconds). I do worry about breaking the thing in a crash, however, due to its size and mounting position. But I'm 65 now and should probably worry more about breaking myself.

[EL34]

alosip

There is no comparison. The 860C meter is way nicer than the stock meter.
You can see how nice it is in my video here

[bengreens]

Wow! Perfect video to watch full-screen and lose yourself on a cold, wet, gloomy Portland afternoon.

[steelersmb]

alosip

There is no comparison. The 860C meter is way nicer than the stock meter.
You can see how nice it is in my video here

It's nicer but I wish the clock kept the correct time.

[EL34]

It's nicer but I wish the clock kept the correct time.

Hard to say if it is all of the 860C meters?

I have a 750C meter from Luna and it loses time also.

[alosip]

Does anyone knows what is the battery life expectancy of the battery if you use a smart charger Luna sells for $99 to charge slowly to 80% vs. charger that came with the bike and charge to 100% every time?

[bradleyland]

There are too many factors to give a hard number, but charging a lithium battery to 80% consistently can nearly double the total cycle count (ref 1). That makes charging to 80% a good return on investment, but you will sacrifice per-trip range, of course. Whether or not that works for you depends on your rides.

(1) https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ased_batteries

[K442]

In the subject of batteries - is it common for the stock X1 battery / controller combo to shut completely off with a battery capacity of 20%?

I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention this 'feature' before, and this is the first time I've dipped to an actual "20%" indicated charge.

I'm usually charging to about 80%, discharging to ~40%, but last night I did some extra riding - heading west to see "The Christmas Star". I was a couple miles out from home base and the controller/screen and all assist just shut off. No warning. The last reading I remember seeing was ~22%, so suspect it hit a magic number of "20". Did a couple quick checks to make sure it wasn't an accidental battery button push, loose battery, etc. Couldn't find anything.

I made my non-powered way back home, I tried to turn it on a couple more times, but nothing. Gave it one last shot coasting down the last hill and the controller did come on, showing "21%" battery. Likely a bit of recovery in the cells. On the charger now, so will have to give it another check-out ride today.

[bradleyland]

If you pull a lot of amps at a low state of charge, you can trip the BMS low-voltage protection circuit. I don't know the actual LVC (low-voltage cutoff) for the BMS in the X-1, but if you've got a Ludicrous bike, you'll want to turn the PAS way down once you're below 30% or you can draw enough amps to shut the battery down.

This is just a general consequence of running a 4P pack with high amperage draw.

[K442]

Thanks for the info! That likely explains it. I was pedaling hard, but also chugging up a hill in PAS 4. Would have been nice if there were some warning, indication, or read-out to show what happened, or that I was nearing a limit. Though if it is the BMS, I guess there is no communication between that and the outside world. So that is to be expected.

Also curious that it took ~10 minutes to 'reset', though possibly it took the battery that long to recover in voltage, or possibly even a built-in 'time out' function.

But happy to report it did auto-reset with no input or procedure needed from me, and all appears normal after giving an 80% charge yesterday and going for a ride.