Luna X1 advanced troubleshooting : battery and power wiring

[a1pha]

Does anyone know where I could buy or how I could make a spare battery for the X1?

I am trying to order a second battery for my x1. I have asked Luna and Dengfu. Luna said they have no expected future stock expectations. Dengfu (via AliExpress) said that the will only ship batteries to previous clients in the U.S. who purchased a frame from them directly.

[EL34]

Does anyone know where I could buy or how I could make a spare battery for the X1?

I am trying to order a second battery for my x1. I have asked Luna and Dengfu. Luna said they have no expected future stock expectations. Dengfu (via AliExpress) said that the will only ship batteries to previous clients in the U.S. who purchased a frame from them directly.

This is not acceptable, IMO. Luna needs to service the bikes they sell.
I also would like to know that I can get another battery for my X1

[paxtana]

I don't know who at Luna told you such a thing alpha, but if that is what they said they did not know what they were talking about. We do have spare x1 batteries in production and they should arrive before summer.

[southbaysumo]

Please put me on the notification list if one exists. Thanks, Bob

[a1pha]

This is great to know! I will sleep easier tonight =)

I am on the "notify me" list from the Luna parts page. I assume that will let me know when they are back on the site?

[paxtana]

Sure I'll make sure you guys are notified

[EL34]

LOL, You are right, I should have known it was Tony

[alosip]

Guy, have anyone tried to attach a spare battery on an X-1 frame? I want to do some long rides in the mountains and need a second battery but carrying it in my backpack is not comfortable. It's just too heavy.

[paxtana]

Bungees? Tie downs? Voile straps?
Idk just throwing out ideas here

[a1pha]

Looking at the Fisher Fab House LED as an add on for the Luna X1.

Has anyone done this? Would you recommend it?

What would be involved in doing this project and what other parts might I need?

Finally, there are 2 different versions available from Luna. Which one would work (if either?) for hooking into the X1?

[paxtana]

You would want the standard one, not the one that says it is built for Surron.

[tristanbrotherton]

I just updated the firmware of my X1 using the BESST tool - Its a Ludi bike, and i updated the firmware to stock_x1_firmware__11007.bin
Holy moly - why did it not come like this? Prior to this levels 1-3 were barely useable and other assist levels would have a hard cut off whilst peddling which felt super weird. I even opened up a support ticket and was told it was just how torque sensors work...

Well - the bike is now 200% better, I just spent the whole afternoon cruising around on level 1, where as before i would be in 5 and its barely touched the battery. i’m really really happy. Go update!

[Brian99]

FW comment and other things for newbies like me:
I got my X1 8 days ago. I had requested FW v14.6. My bike is awesome. Locktite is on the seat post clamp which is all that I have loosened. On my 3rd ride, 8 miles, I was getting air at 20 mph on only a slight downhill. That's when I realized that what everyone said about getting a helmet was true. I got a white Smith, to keep cool where it gets to 110 deg. F. each year.
On about my 4th ride and 20th mile, I did stuff today that I have never been able to do. Today was my first day with IXS Knee pads, my first day in my life on a bike with a helmet, and a great EVOC pack. I did stuff that I was afraid to do on my 2001 "cheap" Trek. I was afraid of getting protection because I knew that I would start doing things which are much more risky. I proceeded to do so. I'm waiting for my gloves with D30 knuckle protection before I go back to one coyote trail that I found.
Half of this (the uphill ride), was due to the quick and predictable start of the power assist, which is not instantaneous, but within about 1 second. The other parts which seem to have enabled this are the big tires and excellent suspension.

I am not aware of any of the problems that I came across on the previous 40 pages occurring any more. I spend a few hours getting acquainted with the bike, learning how to, and making adjustments the night that I went to Fedex a day early and picked it up. The rear shock arrived at 140 psi and I set it to 170 psi. I weigh about 180 lbs this week, and carried at least 10 lbs today, for the 1st time, and the sag remained near 30%.

[a1pha]

My understanding is that if the BESST tool is used, the Ludi upgrade goes away? Were you able to run the upgrade and keep the "overclocked" power?

[paxtana]

Ludicrous is a change to the hardware, changing the firmware does not change that

[alosip]

Guys, what chain model is installed on x-1? The chain has" sram eagle 110" on it but there is no sram eagle chain for sale online that has "110" in its title.

[KTMracer63]

that's what you want...https://www.kmcchain.com/en/series/ebike

[2wheelsanything]

pretty sure the 110 refers to the link count-

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/cn-eagl-gx-a1

[KTMracer63]

This is a good chain....The EPT, not to be confused with "early pregnancy test" is for those near salt water or winter locations using salt on the roads.

- e12 Turbo, or
- e12 Turbo EPT

The 12 speed....bought mine yesterday straight at KMC, the lady was super cool. Don't waste your time sifting thru online retailers.

https://www.kmcchain.com/en/series/ebike

[Texasaj35]

This is a good chain....The EPT, not to be confused with "early pregnancy test" is for those near salt water or winter locations using salt on the roads.

- e12 Turbo, or
- e12 Turbo EPT

The 12 speed....bought mine yesterday straight at KMC, the lady was super cool. Don't waste your time sifting thru online retailers.

https://www.kmcchain.com/en/series/ebike

None for 12speed eBikes !?

[KTMracer63]

you trust a phone app?

https://www.kmcchain.com/en/series/ebike

scroll down further and you'll see the various 12speed chains
Gold (12speed) is all they had in stock....they're working on the website at moment.
https://store.kmcchain.us/ go to the number at bottom left and Monica will answer, she'll take care of the purchase over the phone.

And ask her about her coming out of L.A. hockey game last year and witnessing an idiot staring at their phone "while on e-bike" and slammed into a curb.

[K442]

Zapped again! Made a few other posts about my X1 suddenly going completely dead during a ride. We sort of attributed it to a low voltage shutdown as I was in PAS 4 or 5 and the battery was at 30-35% indicated SOC. So likely a high drain situation for the battery. It has seemed like fully pulling the battery out of the frame, waiting 10-30 seconds, then re-inserting has 'rebooted' the system.

Same thing happened again yesterday...I was in PAS 3 and "POOF" suddenly all power dropped out! Though this time, I tried the battery out/wait trick several times while in the woods...didn't work, so I decided to start manually huffing the monster toward home. After 10-15 minutes and randomly holding the power button in an attempt to start, it did come to life in the last 1/4 mile and gave normal boost again. After al that, the battery was at 46%. No error codes, but wonder if they might be erased by the 'hard shutdown'?

Just curious if anyone else is encountering the same thing? I sort of expected it at PAS 5 and sub 30% SOC on the ludi bike, but it's going to be annoying if it keeps happening at PAS 3 / 45+% !

[JoboD’Hobo]

I’ve just opened a ticket concerning a assist problem I’ve been having over the past month. At the beginning of a ride and during middle (all starting with a full charge), my assist would shut down (pedal assist motor whine could still be heard tho ((lite power?))) and I’d have to cycle the battery on/off to restore normal assist power. Throttle response was, however, present. I have 2 errors of 5 and 14; the “14” of which I can’t find reference to.

Is the stock display purely an output? I’ve had lite condensation under my screen at the start of EVERY ride and attributed it to the Hawaiian climate...and the battery full green/red LEDs NEVER turn off or represent true battery charge state (unfortunately, i don’t have a volt meter and am relying off of a full charge or full ride scenario).

[joegold100]

I've had my X1 for a little over 2 weeks now and I've put almost 250 miles on it. I will also agree that the voltage meter on the color display and the range estimate is "weird". For example I did a 35 mile ride a couple of weekends ago. By about 20 miles I had a little more than half battery showing on the display and the range said about 16 miles. However, once the display hit half way point it dropped much quicker than the first half. Within 10 miles I was in the red zone and riding in mostly PAS 1.

Then again today I did a 8 miles (16 miles round trip) in the mountains. When i got to the end of the trail I had a little less than 3/4 battery showing on the display and the range said 20 miles. The elevation climb was nearly the same in both directions. By the time i got about half way back my meter had dropped from 3/4 to less then 1/4. I ended up powering the rest of the way back in PAS 1 instead of the 2 and 3 I used to get there. When I got back to where I started the level was just about on red but the range still showed 8 miles left. Something is not right that you can use a 1/4 of the battery to go one way but then nearly 3/4 to go the same distance back with the same elevation and in using a lower assist mode.

The bottom line is that it causes a lot of range anxiety especially when your in the middle of the hot desert and you start to fear that you are going to have to pedal a 55 lbs bike many miles (as I had to on the 35 mile ride).

Maybe Luna can explain why the battery drops so much quicker on after the half way point?

I hope Luna can figure out a way to attach a second battery to the frame because, honestly 30-35 mile range is really not enough in mountainous terrain...

[paxtana]

Voltage sag under load increases relative to the SOC, that is how all lithium batteries operate. Lower the SOC, greater the sag.

This is also exacerbated depending on how much load you are pulling. Ludicrous is optimized for performance over range, you can not double the current without significantly cutting the range, per the laws of thermodynamics. Not only does that power have to come from somewhere, but pulling a greater amount of current from a battery at low SOC than you would otherwise be pulling will also increase sag, this is true of all lithium.

There's a video in this thread where someone already wired up additional batteries to the X1 to increase range

[EL34]

% is almost worthless as an indicator
Who knows what the % is based on, but it is not any where near accurate on the X1

The battery when fully charged can be as high 54.6 volts
Have you noticed that the meter stays at 100% even when it drops below 54.6 volts?

So the % figure is calculated on some unknown voltage
Maybe at 52 volts because the meter is set to 52 volts?

Battery voltage tells the exact story
You can expect the X1 to be getting close to shutting down somewhere around 42 volts
If not 42 volts, you are getting really close and should be close to home

The upgraded meter is what I have and I set it so I can see the battery voltage as I ride

If you use way less power, you can get way more mileage
I have gone 43 miles on my X1 using PAS 1 most of the day except for really steep climbs

My X1 is 14.4 and is one of the very early ones

[Brian99]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but this is my limited experience so far (~50 miles on the odometer): I switch between V and % to compare, but I find % much more usable for me. Maybe partly because I'm used to that, since that's how I set my cars also (rather than mile remaining). I have not risked draining much below 50% yet. After the first charge where I went to 100% (and gave it time to balance the cells), With more experience, I will try to keep the daily average at 50% just like my cars, to maximize the battery life. BTW, my first ride, I had a few E20s or something, and turning the battery off and on each time, it recovered. I also use the indicator on the battery to compare to the display; this seems less accurate, but is handy during charging.
I will experiment with lower charge levels eventually. In any case, my hypothesis is that percent may be accurate if you fully charge sometimes to balance the cells and reset the percent indicator.

[AZguy]

% indicators are very rough

Digital if at least 0.1V steps gives far more resolution and even if not that accurate but repeatable you'll get used to the numbers and they will provide much more useful meaning

Remember that for a useful SOC reading the battery should be unloaded for a minute or two before reading

Best is to get an amp-hour/watt-hour meter tho

[KTMracer63]

% is almost worthless as an indicator

The upgraded meter is what I have and I set it so I can see the battery voltage as I ride

Just curious if you have a special meter wired into the battery, is that a special upgrade?
If it's the 860 you're referring to, how does anyone know how truly accurate that is?

Seems like the only true accurate test of distance (and gas left in the tank) is to ride the same trail over and over, but each time commit to only a specific PAS level(s) with noted pedaling effort/riding style....maybe run the Rever app at same time.

[EL34]

Just curious if you have a special meter wired into the battery, is that a special upgrade?
If it's the 860 you're referring to, how does anyone know how truly accurate that is?

Seems like the only true accurate test of distance (and gas left in the tank) is to ride the same trail over and over, but each time commit to only a specific PAS level(s) with noted pedaling effort/riding style....maybe run the Rever app at same time.

I have checked the battery voltage with a multi meter
The 860c voltage reading is good enough

My point is to go by voltage, not %
Voltage tells the exact story and % is who knows what % of what

[KTMracer63]

The checking of voltage is/was already obvious....was only asking clarification to what meter you're using.
Already confirmed with Pax the other meter that reads effectively other than the 860.