Luna X1 advanced troubleshooting : battery and power wiring

[F1PRB22]

SRAM Guide brakes rated low in this test:

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy/

At the affordable end of the market, the SRAM Guide T disappointed testers with its low power

Don’t forget aftermarket pads too: in our tests fitting the Trickstuff Power+ brake pads to the SRAM Code R resulted in a 20% improvement in average braking torque, and an average of 18% improvement in deceleration times. Plus, they were quieter.

[bradleyland]

That review is for the Guide T brakes. The X-1 comes with Guide R. Brakes are subjective and objective. Personally, I'm loving the Guide R brakes. They're extremely easy to modulate. They have a long throw, but I don't mind it considering how easy they are to modulate. IMO, too many people focus on raw stopping power. Let's be honest, none of us are Richie Rude. Powerful brakes are great, but if you struggle to modulate them, you're still going ass over handlebars.

[Robocam]

Here's some information about the fork. You can type in your serial number here to find out exactly what you have.

https://trailhead.rockshox.com/en/search/

I'm going to try some 29" wheels (they will fit the X-1's 27.5+ fork but I'll have to test to confirm on the back). They should offer less rolling resistance and a slightly higher height (might reduce pedal strikes).
https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-p...l#post12585348

If your wheels have 100/142mm hubs, you can use these adapters to convert them to fit the Boost 110/148 spacing (standard spacing of MTBs sold today) of the X-1.
https://smile.amazon.com/Dymoece-Bic.../dp/B07LDR2XZK

If your wheels have 100/142mm hubs and use Centerlock discs, you can use these adapters but you will need 6-bolt discs.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Boost-Hub-C...r=574033788210

And in case anyone wants to put Shimano 203mm discs in the front or back, here is the adapter you need to go from a 180mm post mount to a 203mm disc. You will need one for each brake caliper (stock mounts are setup for 180mm discs). The X-1 comes stock with 200mm front and 180mm rear discs. The front already has a 180 to 200mm adapter on the caliper.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BZBRCYY

If you want to use a 200mm disc in the back, use a 160 to 180mm adapter (it's the 20mm difference that you need because the back is already setup for a 180mm disc, so adding 20mm to 180mm brings you to 200mm).

Here's a QR axle (brand & generic).

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B018LYENTU

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223583204892

[Robocam]

A little information about the gears and shifter. Apparently, Shimano and Sram 12-speed components are interchangeable (i.e. they use the same pull ratio). You can use a Shimano or Sunrace cassette with the X-1, or you can use a Shimano rear derailleur with the Sram shifter or any combination of parts.

https://www.kustombikes.co.uk/articl...eagle-12-speed

Here's a 12-speed cassette option for Shimano 8,9,10 or 11-speed freehubs (pretty much any Shimano-compatible hub made in the last couple of decades).

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B079KSDJSY

The hub on the X-1 is Shimano compatible (i.e. not xD driver, yay! Thanks to Doug for this information).

Here's Shimano's 12-speed SLX rear derailleur. It has Shadow + technology (clutched and adjustable tension). The stock Sram Eagle SX rear derailleur does have a clutch though.

https://smile.amazon.com/SHIMANO-RD-.../dp/B07VFBM4FN

Here's Shimano's 12-speed XT Shifter. It can upshift 2 gears at a time. That should save you some time when you want to quickly go to the smallest gear in the back. The stock Sram shifter only upshifts one gear at a time.

https://smile.amazon.com/SHIMANO-SL-.../dp/B07V7SFJ3L

[Monkey Bike]

The stock SX derailleur HAS a clutch, it’s just on all the time unlike Shimano where you can turn the clutch on and off

[bradleyland]

Dude, you're an animal. Great info!

[Robocam]

Haha, thanks! :D

[getRIGHT]

For Real Robocam. You have saved me many hours of research with your efforts.

Now the real question, which front chainring and rear cassette sizes are needed to achieve over 40mph?

[Robocam]

Glad to hear you find it useful! I don't know about 40 :) but I will be running tests on various sizes of chainrings and chain lengths. I'll see how big of a chainring will fit, and I'll see if the skipping can be reduced or eliminated by increasing the chain length. If people are experiencing skipping after increasing the size of their chainring, the only explanation I can think of is the reduced chainwrap on the cassette cog due to the effectively shorter chain pulling on the derailleur (when you push the cage forwards, it reduces how much chain is wrapped around the sprocket). A larger front chainring reduces chain tension, so it should actually reduce skipping.

[bradleyland]

For Real Robocam. You have saved me many hours of research with your efforts.

Now the real question, which front chainring and rear cassette sizes are needed to achieve over 40mph?

I don't think you're getting to 40 MPH on this bike. The frame isn't built to accommodate the required driveline. Having adjusted in my 11T gear and taken it to 28 MPH, I wouldn't want to do 40 MPH on this frame. The plus tires combined with the suspension make for a wandering road bike.

Having said that, a 40T chainring with the 11T in the back could theoretically get you to 38 MPH with the motor at Kv max. This assumes the power is there to push the bike that fast. 2000W is powerful in the Ludi version, but there's a lot of bike to move here. You'd need road tires too, IMO. The other hurdle is that the 11T skips under heavy load, and a 42T chainring will very likely hit the chain stay. Final verdict: it's an enduro bike, not a top speed machine.

[paxtana]

Since this thread has become something of a general discussion area for this bike, this is a heads up that the rest of the bikes arrived today, for those of you who preordered or are waiting for any particular items that were pending arrival of the shipment. Shipping is getting started on sending the non-ludi bikes today on first come first served basis, then the ludi bikes.

[paxtana]

Yes once label is printed tracking is automatically emailed to the email address on the order. Might take a day or two to update depending on when it is picked up.
Once you have tracking, best to contact fedex freight and schedule a delivery day. Typically they will call the number on the order to arrange it once in transit but it can be helpful to be proactive if you want the bike asap.

[F1PRB22]

Assuming shipped FedEx freight economy and not FedEx freight priority ?

[paxtana]

That is correct.

[JimmyN]

Since this thread has become something of a general discussion area for this bike, this is a heads up that the rest of the bikes arrived today, for those of you who preordered or are waiting for any particular items that were pending arrival of the shipment. Shipping is getting started on sending the non-ludi bikes today on first come first served basis, then the ludi bikes.

Excellent!! So when do you think we should see the Ludi bikes start shipping?

[paxtana]

Probably start in few business days.

[Brando]

side note: Wanting a high speed 30 mph - 45 mph [about 50 kph - 70 kph] pavement bike
AND wanting a mountain or off-road trail bike would seem to have two conflicting requirements.

1- Tires
2- Drive Train

So at best you could have road/off-road tires and change of gearing for high speed vs off-road.

comment from a newbie
- other nuances will have to come from those with actual direct experience in high speed vs off-road.
such as Full Suspension ??

Dreaming of 14 speed IGH Rohloff or Kindernay with front 30/52 chain rings? Quick Release Axles for tire changes? - thoughts?

(suggest a better place for this type of ideas?)

[bradleyland]

Michael, have a look at the "Boost Mode" section in this manual I put together: https://bradland.github.io/unofficia...isplay-manual/

The PAS cuts out at 25 MPH. Past that you're pedaling on your own, or you have two options:

1) Roll in some throttle to carry you further.
2) Use "Boost Mode" to push the bike further.

Both require your finger on a button though, so they'll become tiring after a while.

[Michael Long]

Bradley,

I tested again on the way home from work, and it definitely gives pedal assist all the way up to 30mph. It DOES cut out at 25, but when I increased pedaling effort it kicked back on, no boost mode required. It’s hard to test, since the cadence is already crazy high to hit that speed on the 32T.

[Robocam]

Just tested a 42T today, and with pedal assist only, I was able to reach 30 mph. How on earth did you reach that using the 32T? I was pedaling like crazy with my 42T, haha.

https://youtu.be/amzIyAd5pn8

[Robocam]

And speaking of tires, here's a site with some good data on rolling resistance (but may not apply to off-road surfaces).

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews

Based on their results, I think I'd like to try a set of Rocket Rons on 29" wheels. That should lower the flat-surface rolling resistance by half or more. I actually have a set of 27.5"+ wheels with a Rocket Ron on the back and a Nobby Nic on the front that I can try too. Maybe I'll ride around in a circle to see how far I can go until the low voltage cutoff stops me. What speed should I use? 15? 20? Which gear? Maybe full throttle in the 17T cog the whole way (~19 mph).

This one looks like a good candidate for road and paved/flat trails.

https://smile.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Ma.../dp/B07GTH8YY2 (for 27.5")

https://smile.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Ma.../dp/B00OJX9898 (for 29")

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews

[350XC-F]

Is anybody else checking the FedEx tracking website anxiously awaiting theirs like I am! Thursday is the day for me! Easier to go to he FedEx depot to pick it up than have to take a day off of work to be here when it's delivered. I was hoping to get it a little earlier since I leave Friday for the last dual sport (dirt bike) ride of the season, so it will have to wait a few days for the first ride!

[jmbach]

Mine's supposed to be here Wed. We're expecting 16" of snow between now and Wed night, so it could be delayed. At the least, it'll probably be a few days before I can get her on the trails.

I am a bit concerned about my order. I got the Ludi upgrade, but neither of the order updates I received indicates that (my invoice does). For those who got Ludicrous, did your updates say that?

[350XC-F]

I didn't get the ludicrous option so I can't help there. My thoughts were I would rather have more battery life than more power. The 2 times I've ridden other e-bikes (which I assumed were 250W) I thought they were plenty powerful enough, If standard is twice as powerful as a "brand name" one, I figured I didn't need more than that. Perhaps I will be disappointed, but we will see.

16" of snow on the way! Damn dude, I am hoping we get 3 or 4 more weeks before that nonsense starts here in the northeast!

[JimmyN]

My order updates don't say anything about the Ludi upgrade either but the price does, I have an amp meter so I'll test it tomorrow.

[JimmyN]

Is anybody else checking the FedEx tracking website anxiously awaiting theirs like I am! Thursday is the day for me! Easier to go to he FedEx depot to pick it up than have to take a day off of work to be here when it's delivered. I was hoping to get it a little earlier since I leave Friday for the last dual sport (dirt bike) ride of the season, so it will have to wait a few days for the first ride!

YUP!! Mine will be here tomorrow. I'm losing my mind with anticipation, I even contemplated driving 4 hours through L.A. traffic to pick it up a couple days sooner. It will be my first production bike, If I could have built it cheaper myself I would have. I hope it meet my expectation, I'll be posting my thoughts tomorrow night.

[JimmyN]

Just assembled my new X1. I have to say it exceeded my expectations. looks to be well designed and very robust. I've only ever owned a Kit conversion e-bike and because I beat the hell out of my bikes they don't last but this looks to be well designed, like the engineers gave a lot of thought to the added weight and power, something the bikes of my past didn't have. Despite the heavy duty appearance it is lightweight for what it is. Unfortunately I can't see the display with polarized sunglasses and the PAS takes a little getting used to (I've only ever used throttles). I thought having the throttle on the left would be confusing and a problem but it seems natural after just a few minutes. I've heard people complain about this bike being loud but I don't think it's noisy at all. I'll do some Db. test comparisons and post in a little while.

[JimmyN]

Here is the results of some sound comparisons I just did with my new X1, I hung the X1 in my garage next to my Cannondale W/GNG belt reduction kit, I held the decibel meter at 4' above the crank and ran the throttle wide open, the GNG peaked at 85.5 decibels the Bafang M600 was 59.8 when i let off the throttle the rear freewheel peaked the meter at 60.4. With all this discussion about how loud this motor is I was a little worried but once I rode the bike I realized it's not a problem at all, at least for me, I thought it was funny the freewheeling rear wheel makes more noise than the M600. I took one more test at the end, I rode the bike down the street with no power just pedaling, third gear, flat ground, light headwind and the meter peaked at 71 db.

[WhyZed]

Well sad to say, my X-1 has been 'Clearance delayed' coming into Canada...
Was scheduled to arrive tomorrow.
Any thoughts on my predicament?

[paxtana]

Did you pay the customs fees? If not then that'll definitely delay it.

[jmbach]

Mine was supposed to be delivered today (Wed 10/30). It made it to Denver last night (10/29) but somehow FedEx says they've lost track of it. How do you lose a bike? I guess with temps below freezing till Fri and 8-10" of snow on the ground, a day or two wait isn't a big deal, as long as they find it.

Update 11/6. The bike was supposed to be delivered last Wed but they lost it. On Friday it turned up in Boise. Tuesday it was in Salt Lake. It got back to Denver last night and is supposed to be delivered tomorrow, 8 days after the original delivery was scheduled. Can't wait to see what kind of shape the box is in.

[WhyZed]

I received a phone call late yesterday afternoon. My X-1 had cleared and was ready for pickup. I worked 15hrs yesterday so all I had the strength to do was drag it into the house but I have possession