Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Luna X-1 Enduro FS ebike MANUAL

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Brian99
    commented on 's reply
    However, some of us find reading % much faster; just subtract 30% to find the zero point (you can't expect much power below that). When I'm out, I don't take the time to do the math on voltage. I have tried it, but I see no point in adding the complexity of that equation. I think 46V is about when the power goes down. So the conversion to something more natural and useful, like percent, may be ("voltage at rest"-46)/9*100 if the max is ~55 V, which I think mine is. While some of you have ingrained this in your subconscious, apparently, I'm not doing that sort of math while riding. Trying to complicate the equation by including the reading under load is something I have not spent any time trying to figure out. Maybe add 3 V to the reading, but I think this is a huge variable.
    And yes, the voltage readings and the green dots on the battery need some time to settle after use or charging to become accurate. I'm not sure that my % indication has this problem; I have not noticed it shifting with rest.

  • EL34
    replied
    Originally posted by ribeyesteaks View Post
    This is why you apply a filter to extrapolate a percentage from the discharge curve.
    No one knows how much juice is left based on a voltage reading.
    All you need to know is that you should not discharge the battery below a certain voltage

    You don't need any complicated formulas

    Leave a comment:


  • AZguy
    replied
    The "best" battery gauge is an amp-hour meter.

    Li-ion batteries like we use tend to have extremely high coulomb efficiency meaning the number of electrons put in comes very, very close to how many electrons come out. Over time the number will decrease but from day-to-day however in simplistic terms it's the number of electrons left in the battery from the charge cycle that gives you the best estimate of state-of-charge (SOC)

    If Li-ion are so extremely coulomb efficient why aren't they just as energy efficient? It takes more voltage to push the electrons in than the voltage they come out at. Since power = volts * amps and energy = power * time if the charge/discharge are at constant currents then the time will be nearly the same since the coulomb efficiency is so high so the difference will be less energy out than in because the voltage during discharge is lower than charge. There are other ways of looking at it but that's an easy way and it explains why measuring energy used while a very useful measurement isn't as good as amp-hours when it comes to measuring SOC.

    Not everyone has a amp-hour totalizer on their bike. You need to wire in a shunt in order to measure current and while not expensive they aren't free and usually don't come standard

    So if we don't have a good way to measure current and totalize it (integrate over time to get amp-hours) then we're left with only one thing left to use - voltage

    Now that curve in the prior post is BS. It's not so flat in the middle. A li-ion battery like we use has a discharge curve that looks more like this:

    ‚ÄčClick image for larger version

Name:	Li_Ion_DiscGph.JPG
Views:	374
Size:	31.5 KB
ID:	128026

    And we don't usually use the last 10-20% at all (almost no point to it since the power is dropping so fast and we get more voltage sag) so that the part of the curve we're really interested in has a fair amount of slope that's constant enough once we get past the first 10% or so.

    So if all we have is voltage we can get a reasonable idea where we are - especially once we get some time with a given battery and learn what the voltage display (whether bar graph, % or decimal voltage) means for our setup with regards to SOC.... then if we are relegated to using voltage should we choose bar graph, % or voltage? I say whatever gives us the most resolution as long as it covers the entire range of the battery. Typically we get 0.1V resolution with a voltmeter although some have 0.01V. On a percent gauge if we are going with a 52V battery and calling 58.8V 100% and have an LVCO of 43V at 0% then each percent = 0.158V and the voltmeter wins the resolution contest even if only one decimal. Bar graphs aren't even in the game.


    In summary, voltage is a rough method that when a user "learns" their machine can have a repeatable and pretty good idea of where they are in the discharge cycle. A voltmeter gives the best resolution and is more likely to accommodate the entire range of the battery. However an amp-hour meter is the best way if we want accuracy and a linear representation ...
    Last edited by AZguy; 05-12-2021, 02:40 PM. Reason: fixed picture link

    Leave a comment:


  • ribeyesteaks
    replied
    Originally posted by K442 View Post

    True, battery voltage is accurate, the only thing to remember is that it is not linear. The first 0.2 or 0.3 volt per cell drop is going to be the first 10% of your battery. The next 0.1-0.2 is going to be the middle 70% and then the voltage will drop very fast over the last 20%. I think it is this non-linearity that the % indicator tries to straighten out. Though very likely most chargers don't charge into the 4.3V/cell range and likely most controllers cut off well before 3.5V/cell.

    I'm becoming fairly used to the fact a fully charged battery for me is about "91%" and the controller will cut out due to low voltage at about "47%". The % discharge relatively follows the amount of assist used.

    Exactly. This is why you apply a filter to extrapolate a percentage from the discharge curve. No one knows how much juice is left based on a voltage reading.

    Leave a comment:


  • ribeyesteaks
    replied
    Originally posted by EL34 View Post

    % is still subjective and not accurate
    So if your car showed your speed was 34%, would that be helpful

    Battery voltage is the only accurate indicator, not %
    That's not even an accurate or good analogy. If your fuel gauge showed 34%, then that's a fair comparison. The reason why a speed gauge in % is not used is because people can't math that fast AND because top speed isn't even a known.

    Everyone and every electronic device with a battery uses a battery percentage. The voltage reading is stupid. Ever seen an EV car report voltage readings as a gauge of how much electrons are in a battery? No. Because it's stupid.

    Leave a comment:


  • K442
    replied
    Originally posted by EL34 View Post

    % is still subjective and not accurate
    So if your car showed your speed was 34%, would that be helpful

    Battery voltage is the only accurate indicator, not %
    True, battery voltage is accurate, the only thing to remember is that it is not linear. The first 0.2 or 0.3 volt per cell drop is going to be the first 10% of your battery. The next 0.1-0.2 is going to be the middle 70% and then the voltage will drop very fast over the last 20%. I think it is this non-linearity that the % indicator tries to straighten out. Though very likely most chargers don't charge into the 4.3V/cell range and likely most controllers cut off well before 3.5V/cell.

    I'm becoming fairly used to the fact a fully charged battery for me is about "91%" and the controller will cut out due to low voltage at about "47%". The % discharge relatively follows the amount of assist used.

    Leave a comment:


  • jollucci
    replied
    Does anyone know where to find replacement parts for the Quanta rear hub? The sealed bearing inside my free hub body has worn out causing the cassette to no longer be firmly secured.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian99
    commented on 's reply
    Did you charge to 100% and let it keep charging for a couple of hours? I'm still trying to figure out whether this is what sets the 100% reference, when the cells are being balanced. Sure voltage is more accurate, but my % reading is quite usable. When it's calibrated, it should start to ramp down the power near 30% I believe.

  • EL34
    replied
    Originally posted by ribeyesteaks View Post

    Ah, in hindsight, I should have went with the larger display. The one on there is a bit too small and hard to read at times. As for the % figure, I just think it needs some calibration. "% of what" is of course the total battery capacity. That's how it's always been. Of course you can't tell that exactly. But, it's estimated based on voltage readings and applying a filter. The one on the bike computer needs calibration. So far, It seems to me that when the battery reading on the display reaches around 60%, you're getting close to empty.
    % is still subjective and not accurate
    So if your car showed your speed was 34%, would that be helpful

    Battery voltage is the only accurate indicator, not %

    Leave a comment:


  • ribeyesteaks
    replied
    Originally posted by EL34 View Post

    % on the X1 is a worthless figure
    % of what is the problem?

    The most you can set the meter to is 52 volts but the battery pack can actually be charged to 13 x 4.2 = 54.6 volts


    Battery voltage tells the exact story
    The battery should not be drained down any more than somewhere around 42-43 volts
    The 860C meter is the way to go
    You can set it for voltage display

    Click image for larger version

Name:	860cmeter.png
Views:	484
Size:	1.48 MB
ID:	127677
    Ah, in hindsight, I should have went with the larger display. The one on there is a bit too small and hard to read at times. As for the % figure, I just think it needs some calibration. "% of what" is of course the total battery capacity. That's how it's always been. Of course you can't tell that exactly. But, it's estimated based on voltage readings and applying a filter. The one on the bike computer needs calibration. So far, It seems to me that when the battery reading on the display reaches around 60%, you're getting close to empty.

    Leave a comment:


  • EL34
    replied
    The 860C does not display the firmware version
    I had to hook up the original meter to mine to be able to see that it was 14.4

    I have around 1500 miles on my PEEK gear that I installed on my Non Ludi X1

    Leave a comment:


  • KTMracer63
    commented on 's reply
    Luna was shipping all Ludi bikes with 14.5
    If levels 1 and 2 suck, or feel non-existent, but level 3 turns on a bit like a light switch, you're on 14.5
    Received my Ludi in late March as well, but I ordered Besst Tool with it already knowing the bike was coming with the crappy 14.5...after a bit of research beforehand.

    I don't have the 860 display...so don't know what to tell ya there as far as where to find the firmware release. I heard pin numbers have to be entered for access/reading...or something to that nature. The length of the file names for the various firmware are a bit lengthy so may not be fully displayed.

    With original display it's very easy to find/see the firmware release.
    Also, the Besst Tool will tell you the release # via its software app (after loaded on computer/laptop), though the Tool has to be connected to the bike/controller and the laptop at same time (there are U2B vids on this). The Besst tool is an interface device that allows the firmware to be swapped around...14.6 is the best one, way more pedal friendly...PAS levels are better spread out and helps with battery consumption. Bottom line, you'll get better use of Levels 1 and 2 whether using the 5PAS or 9PAS settings.

    Buying the Besst Tool at Luna site, you'll get a total of 4 Downloads...3 will be Firmware (Bafang 46.6, Luna 14.5 and Stock 14.6) along with the Besst SW app download. If you buy there, pay attention to the "payment confirmation page" from Luna (don't be fast to close it)...the download links are on that confirmation page....just save them to your computer.
    Last edited by KTMracer63; 05-08-2021, 08:06 AM.

  • Mike Eatough
    commented on 's reply
    My Peek lasted 600 miles

  • TruthAche
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks KTMracer63. I didn't know exactly what to search for before and now I do. :)

    I looked on the 860c Display settings and the Product Info screen said:
    Hardware Ver. E1.0
    Software Ver. 2.1B-V1

    So I didn't see 14.5 or 14.6. Do you know what 2.1B-V1 is? Stock I guess.

    Found the X1 Riders group, requested a join. Thanks!

    I'm probably going to order the BESST tool.

    I hope the Peek Gear lasts 1000 miles or more. I'll try and be gently with it :D

    Thanks again.

  • KTMracer63
    commented on 's reply
    Do some homework research, anyone and most everyone in Ludi mode has upgraded to 14.6 firmware by buying the Besst Tool and swapping the firmware. PAS gripes SOLVED.

    Didn't mention anything about your firmware???
    You have Ludicrous mode so your issue is the firmware...99.9999% bet you're on 14.5 firmware....honestly, the 860 display is a bad buy at first with the bike (plus they break easier with crashes). Do a Review on the bike and get $25 off your next purchase (then buy the original display)....it's very easy to see the firmware version release with the original display....then you have a backup, after you crash and destroy the 860....not a matter of if, but when.

    Again, do some homework.......with Ludi, you'll be changing the Peek Gear probably faster than you realize....there is a Facebook Luna X1 Riders group....14.5 firmware has been trashed there the past 2mo...and everyone's raving about the 14.6 release.

    Again, do a review at Luna site and get a $25 discount, buy yourself the BESST Tool or an Original Display...or the steel gear that was not given to you, after you were charged for the Peek Gear and Install Labor ($200), LOL now find it ludicrous that you have to buy your steel gear back...LOL.
    Last edited by KTMracer63; 05-07-2021, 06:04 PM.
Working...
X