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    #31
    It seems there is no way to make this bike street legal in the US other than removing throttle? It doesn't seem possible to program the display to change max speed from 28 to 20 mph to make it class 2.

    Comment


      #32
      From Luna's website: "This Ludicrous bike will have a 1-10 dial you will turn with a screwdriver, which will allow you to change the bike from street legal mode (600 watts) all the way up to 2000 watts (Ludicrous Mode) peak."

      I have the ludicrous version but don't see this on my bike nor anyone talking about it here as far as the power adjustment. Luna did you drop this feature?

      Comment


      • paxtana
        paxtana commented
        Editing a comment
        It appears it does not have a dial.

      #33
      Maybe it has something to do with the torque sensor, the way I understand it, it recognizes the energy the rider is inputting and responds accordingly, this system has always intrigued me and it sounds like Bafang did quite a bit of “tweaking” to get it right or at least close enough to ship. Maybe the program needs more work.

      Originally posted by Zith18 View Post
      I took the bikes out on the trail with my wife. I was really excited and I really really wanted to like the bikes. I unfortunately there are just too many issues.

      1) As discussed above, the noise was just very high and very off putting.

      2) The power levels are weird. It felt like I was riding a poorly tuned prototype. Levels 1 and 2 are basically useless. I found them to be the same as riding a regular bike. Just enough power to make it feel like a normal bike. Then 3 is insanely powerful nearly the same as 4, 5, and boost. I could barely tell the difference between the upper levels. I really wanted a goldi locks level of power. Maybe with out the ludicrous upgrade 3 would have felt better. Either way it was either too low power to be useful (levels 1 and 2) under 100 watts on the display. Or waay too much, over 500 hundred watts on the display. I also tried the 9 level settings it was the same issue anything 4 or under was useless and anything over 5 was too much.

      3) The cords in the display units won’t stay in. My wife’s came out 6 times during the ride and mine came out 8 times. I jammed them in as hard as a I can and still got periodic turn offs that required you to rejam the plugs. They never fell out but just came loose enough to lose connection

      The above three issues together are a deal breaker for me. Combined with the seat post issues I will be sending them back :(

      Comment


        #34
        I was deeply disappointed to have missed the presale by a few hours and have been anxiously waiting for the next opportunity. I almost put in my order this morning but I'm just too paranoid about the number of issues (noise, display, dropper seat, motor connections, PAS tuning) that have surfaced. This bike is beautifully designed with great components but seems like it might still be a work in progress. The price is fantastic but still a lot of money for a bike with resolutions to yet be found. The NOISE is just a deal killer for me. I will probably find myself pay more money but I'm going to wait for these problems to be resolved.

        Comment


        • joost
          joost commented
          Editing a comment
          I'm on the fence too but not for the same reasons; I don't mind a little noise. I've been spoiled by bafang where you can customize programming swap out displays ect. I am disappointed in the closed system with limited configuration. What you get is what you get and no Karl's special sauce!

        • Robocam
          Robocam commented
          Editing a comment
          I have the Ludicrous, and it really isn't loud at all. It's a quiet whine. The videos make it sound much louder than reality. The dropper "issue" is just a cable tension adjustment.
          Last edited by Robocam; 10-04-2019, 06:19 AM.

        #35
        Originally posted by Zith18 View Post
        500 watts is the minimum I could get when on 3 or higher. I also think it’s actually double that because of the ludicrous upgrade. I want 2000 watts when I want it. I enjoy the top end but I’d like to be able to climb and have more then two power options, super low or super high. Have you ridden this bike? I think if you take it out on the trail you will see what I mean.
        Yes I have ridden the bike now for three days. I agree that power levels 1 and 2 are very similar, but I find 3, 4, and 5 distinct power levels. I am taking it to the mountains this weekend and suspect I may find a use for levels 1 and 2 in the mountains. Have you tried out the bike in the mountains?

        I also switched the programming to the 9 power levels but that felt redundant as some levels were very similar and one ends up punching the power level button all the time. I will stick with the 5 power levels.

        Comment


        • Zith18
          Zith18 commented
          Editing a comment
          Yeah the mountains is where It was most noticeable. Riding around the street it didn’t feel as problematic.

        #36
        Originally posted by paxtana View Post
        The bare motor.

        Removing the motor is pretty easy, no special tools required.

        Remove bash guard (4x hex bolts )
        Remove plastic cover on non drive side (3x torx bolts T10)
        Remove chainring bolts (not necessary to remove spyder )
        Remove the 3 mounting bolts (5mm hex and 10mm socket.
        Motor will drop down . ( 3 plugs go into the side of motor)


        Click image for larger version Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	1.85 MB ID:	93793

        The connectors directly on the bare motor. Check the connection here during troubleshooting in addition to the harness.

        Click image for larger version Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	2.44 MB ID:	93794
        I'm trying to open up the motor and grease it. How do you remove the spyder? Does it require a special tool?

        Comment


        #37
        Unboxing a Ludicrous X1 with a sound comparison with an Ultra.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7-VXKLkwZ0&lc

        Comment


          #38
          So I purchased the standard version because most of my riding will be done on the street and maybe some light trails. I haven't ridden the bike much yet because I just got it two days ago but the noise level is not an issue for me. I also have an FLX Trail Bike that I bought for my son which has the same motor and I would say the noise is about the same. I'm wondering though if I made a mistake by getting the standard version.

          Comment


          • Robocam
            Robocam commented
            Editing a comment
            Of course you did! Why would you not get this awesome exclusive option! :)

          • steelersmb
            steelersmb commented
            Editing a comment
            Because I wanted a throttle and when I pre-ordered mine, this wasn't an option. I'm a little upset now that they offer this as an option after the fact.

          • Robocam
            Robocam commented
            Editing a comment
            Oh, I see. Yeah, I almost did that too but I was banking on being able to add a throttle later, which may not have been possible given that we cannot program the M600. I would definitely email them as I saw suggested. Good luck!

          #39
          Can you help me understand more about why we cannot program it? Is it because the drive will only respond to Luna Cycle's custom firmware file, so that if I bought this tool, there is absolutely no way I will ever be able to program it? Is there no way someone else could provide me with a firmware file so that I can change settings? There are settings that I would really love to tweak.

          https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...2aeb3e5fyQpDQI

          Originally posted by paxtana View Post
          ...Advanced controller programming:

          This drive cannot be programmed like the other Bafang mid-drives unfortunately. It uses the Bafang dealer tool called the BESST. If you get your hand on it with a dealer license you can but you wont be able to change anything as you would need the firmware file. So don't buying one!

          Also changing the controller will require a BESST tools with
          dealer access to calibrate the new controller to the motor

          Click image for larger version Name:	Screen Shot 2019-09-25 at 3.17.54 PM.png Views:	1 Size:	287.5 KB ID:	94049

          Comment


          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            The shop has declined to provide more information at this time. All I was told is that this is basically locked down due to some firmware that is needed and that some particular version of this tool would be needed which is apparently hard to come by, that it is all very limited access etc. I assume that it may be something proprietary is needed.

          • Robocam
            Robocam commented
            Editing a comment
            I got down to the bottom of it I believe. So basically, Bafang is the only one that can actually change anything. All a dealer can do is request features, but Bafang ultimately edits the program and provides it to the dealer for flashing (uploading) onto the motor controller. Someone really needs to hack this drive so that we can program it =) But honestly, aside from a few minor personal preference-related things, I really like the way it's already programmed. The torque sensor feels really good.

          #40
          Jeebus, this guy posted in 4 forums before sorting the sound. The best part of not doing customer service work is no lompnger having these guys that whine across the internet before trying to solve with the seller.

          Comment


          • tomdav
            tomdav commented
            Editing a comment
            It's probably a good thing you aren't in customer service as you don't seem qualified for it. Not sure why you've gone out of your way to personally attack me on 3 forums? Do you even have the M600? If not you have no input to the conversation. FWIW, I sent the bike back to Luna.

          • Scoonie
            Scoonie commented
            Editing a comment
            You gripped everywhere before sorting with the seller. A nightmare customer. Needing calling out. FFS, how much better of a redponse could you have needed.

          #41
          Hi All. First post!

          ​​I have an X-1 on order, with ludicrous. I have a few questions that's I am hoping to get a better understanding of.

          1. With the ludicrous upgrade, the original Luna information page stated no throttle because "many new eBike riders tend to start out too hard in the wrong gear which is hard on the motor, controller and gear reduction". I was okay with not having a throttle because I'm a new'ish eBike rider. Therefore, now that ludicrous comes with a throttle, what a good gear to start out in, or put another way, how do I ensure I'm not pushing it too hard, say up a hill or something?

          2. I read other posts about the speed being low for 2000w output. To help my new'ish understand, how does having 2000w help the rider if the power is not translated into speed? Does it have something to do with hill climbing? I did see another posts saying the bike is like a "mountain goat".

          Thank you in advance! Looking forward to riding the bike!

          Edits: spelling
          Last edited by Ramipril; 10-04-2019, 08:21 PM.

          Comment


          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            1. Try pedaling it without power and seeing what gear you are in. If a particular gear on a particular incline is too hard for your legs, it's too hard for the motor and you should downshift.

            2. Ludi doubles current. Current has basically nothing to do with speed, it's all about greater torque. Which would indeed help with hill climbing. That said, you could change the chainring and get more speed if you wanted to gear it more for commuting or something rather than its intended purpose (actual enduro riding)

          • Robocam
            Robocam commented
            Editing a comment
            Technically increasing current increases power, and increased power means increased speed if the gearing allows it. In the case of the X1, even in the highest gear, the bike isn’t outputting all of its 2000W. In order to take advantage of the additional power, you need to gear it up by installing a larger front chainring. I just ordered one, and I will report how it behaves after I install it. There’s another user on Facebook that has installed a 38T chainring, and he reports reaching 28MPH. As far as I know, there really isn’t a downside to doing this. With a motor, a 32 going to a 50 is just too low to be useful in my opinion. Climbing anything at 6mph is too slow for me (that about how fast a Power Wheels goes!) :) but it would be great for pedaling without using the motor (such as when your battery runs out of power).

            As far as how 2000 watts will be useful, it will allow you to accelerate faster. Think of it as the difference between a V6 and V8 Camaro. With more power, you can do everything faster.
            Last edited by Robocam; 10-06-2019, 01:20 AM.

          • Ramipril
            Ramipril commented
            Editing a comment
            I appreciate the responses! Thanks!

          #42
          As far as the throttle goes,you'll get the feel for what gear you should be in. just go easy for a while, As far as the wattage relating to speed it's the same as most other geared motor vehicles, if you had a high horsepower Lamborghini in first gear it's only going to go so fast no matter how high the horse power is, wattage is just horsepower, higher gearing = higher speed if you have the wattage/horsepower to push it. people that want to go fast can change the gearing up to a point, those with the Ludi upgrade will theoretically be able to go faster.

          Originally posted by Ramipril View Post
          Hi All. First post!

          ​​I have an X-1 on order, with ludicrous. I have a few questions that's I am hoping to get a better understanding of.

          1. With the ludicrous upgrade, the original Luna information page stated no throttle because "many new eBike riders tend to start out too hard in the wrong gear which is hard on the motor, controller and gear reduction". I was okay with not having a throttle because I'm a new'ish eBike rider. Therefore, now that ludicrous comes with a throttle, what a good gear to start out in, or put another way, how do I ensure I'm not pushing it too hard, say up a hill or something?

          2. I read other posts about the speed being low for 2000w output. To help my new'ish understand, how does having 2000w help the rider if the power is not translated into speed? Does it have something to do with hill climbing? I did see another posts saying the bike is like a "mountain goat".

          Thank you in advance! Looking forward to riding the bike!

          Edits: spelling

          Comment


          • Ramipril
            Ramipril commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you. That makes sense!

          #43
          Originally posted by Scoonie View Post
          Jeebus, this guy posted in 4 forums before sorting the sound. The best part of not doing customer service work is no lompnger having these guys that whine across the internet before trying to solve with the seller.
          Isn't that what these Forums are all about? asking questions and discussing issues that we're having with our bikes? Because of his posts we are all a bit smarter and better informed. It didn't change my mind about Luna or the X1 I'll most likely place an order for one early next week. The way I see it Luna has a niche market, they offer a very cost effective way to get creative hands on type people on e-bikes I think their core market is NOT going to be the kinda guy that would normally by his bikes at costco and have a bike mechanic adjust his derailleur for him.

          Comment


            #44
            What is the precise torque in NM of the Ludicrous version?

            On Lunas' website they say the M600 has 95 NM of torque, which I assume they just took from Bafang's website. Given Ludi doubles the amps to 40 is it correct to conclude it has 95 x 2 or 190 NM of torque?

            My wife has a Haibike with the Bosch Performance Line CX that has 75 NM of torque. Having ridden both I can say the X-1 with Ludi has at least 3 times the torque of the Bosch. That would put the Ludi at 225 NM. This is just estimates of course so does any know the actual NM of torque on the Ludi?

            Comment


            • paxtana
              paxtana commented
              Editing a comment
              That may be true. To be fair, the listing says *over* 95 nm, which would still be technically correct even if actual number is more than double :)

              Jokes aside I don't think anyone has hooked it up to testing machines yet, so we won't be able to say until this is done.

            #45
            I just got the chance to take my bike out and ride for a bit. I noticed that the front brake rotor is rubbing up against the brake. Is this anything to worry about?

            Also, I'm a bit disappointed in Luna because I pre-ordered my bike months ago when it said there was no throttle for the ludicrous mode so I ordered the standard version. They decided to include the throttle now and I feel that they should have at least emailed people to let them know that a throttle is included now so I could have had the choice to change my selection.

            Has anyone found a place to mount a water bottle?

            Comment


            • paxtana
              paxtana commented
              Editing a comment
              Are you saying the rotor is bent or warped in some way? If it's just rubbing loosen the bolts on the caliper until the caliper can move around, then pull the brake lever and have someone continue holding the lever while you tighten the bolts. When you pull the lever it auto centers so it's fairly straightforward.

              The throttle decision was a freebie decision at the last minute while also getting the bikes out the door asap. The bikes were already past the first eta so that probably played a factor. Sorry about that. We might be able to coordinate with you on some sort of solution if you want to contact support@lunacycle.com attn: Gary so I can see what we can do to help.

            • steelersmb
              steelersmb commented
              Editing a comment
              The rotor seems to be bent because when I ride I can see it and it looks warped. I may contact support about the other issue after I have a chance to ride some more.

            • Brando
              Brando commented
              Editing a comment
              CHECK FRONT WHEEL SPACERS - one on each side of the front axle. 
              Let us know if that fixes it. thanks
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