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    Luna BABE bike

    Click image for larger version  Name:	babe.jpg Views:	12 Size:	119.1 KB ID:	100985
    Warning, would should never shift under load (that includes throttle and pedal), you can pedal while shifting but you need to avoid putting any pressure on the pedals! It's the same for all IGH hubs (ebikes or non-ebikes). Shifting under load will likely result in a misshift, permanent clanking noise or simply a broken gear.
    Tip on shifting: You need to stop pedalling and also wait until the motor power down before attempting to shift. Click here for more details


    Specs

    30'' standover
    6 feet long overall
    Weight: 65 lbs total with 7lb battery. 58lbs without battery.
    30.9mm seatpost
    31'' bars
    80mm stem, ~15 degree rise
    Rotors: 180 rear, 203 front
    Rim specs: 26" fatbike rims 80mm. Effective wheel size is more like 29er since it's a fattie even though it is 26".
    IGH (rear hub) Specs: Measures 190mm at dropout
    Standard barrel charge port (charger included)

    Display is a special display that works only with this bike, no other display will work for it. It uses CAN communication so it will not work with any BBSxx / Ultra series display. This display also has a USB port, a nice surprise. To change the basic settings of the display hold down + & -.

    The battery is charged with a standard barrel. This means you can use something like the solderless barrel in conjunction with 48v Advanced Charger or 48v Mini to charge the bike if preferred over the included charger.

    This bike has a temp sensor and high temp cutoff to prevent damage to the motor/controller.
    At high temp it will scale back the power. If heat continues to rise, it will briefly shut down to protect the internals.

    Before your first ride

    Please make sure the stem and handlebar bolts are secure and check the front axle, tire pressure, brakes, and such. Adjust the suspension fork to your liking with the rebound and compression knobs and add/remove air in the fork to get the correct sag based on your weight and ridging style. Charge the battery fully (wait till the green light is on).

    ON this specific model you will have to check the belt tension and wheel alignment(Click here on how to adjust the tension)and make sure the axle is very tight. Once you have the proper tension set and axle tight, check the shifter alignment/adjustment (see down below).

    Turn ON the system:

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    This is the selector on the handlebars. Hold down power button (bottom) for 3-5 seconds to turn on.


    Riding the bike:

    Make sure to start in the right gear (like in first or second) this is an IGH so you have no excuses not to be able to shift from a dead stop!!! Starting in top gear at full throttle and full pedal power will put a lot of torque on the IGH and belt drive and can lead to belt skipping and IGH issues. If you ever experience clanking noise, check the belt tension again making sure it's at least over 80hz (you can go up to 94hz) and make sure the shifting adjustment is correct.



    Q&A

    Aftermarket chargers?
    This charges with standard barrel, so any 48v nominal li-ion charger that uses or can be modded for barrel will work. Our Advanced charger is a popular one. You will need this barrel connector to replace the default xt60.

    Rack mounts?
    No rack mounts at this time, you might use a seatpost mounted rack though. This may be a good example as it is reinforced. For higher weight capacity this could also be a good example. If the type of rack is desired that uses M5 bolts on the bottom, this can be added with the Luna no drill mounts.

    Top speed?
    Somewhere around 27mph. Depends on terrain, rider weight, tire pressure and so on.


    What display does it use?
    This one. There is also an upgrade color display available when in stock, it is on this listing

    Limit speed through display?
    No

    Walk mode?
    Yes

    E-Brake sensor?
    Disabled for simplicity on the BABE

    Can I go bigger on tire width?
    Looks like you could fit a 5 inch tire but it would be tight, not 100% sure

    Battery removal

    Put the key in and turn it then twist the latch located on the battery, the battery will drop out.

    Rear wheel removal (to change a flat)
    1. Loosen both 15mm axle nuts
    2. Loosen the tensioner (Click here to see the tensioner nut)
    3. take the belt off the bike
    4. Shift into top gear and remove the shift cable off the fulcrum (See video below)
    5. Remove the wheel
    6. Put back the wheel
    7. Put the shift cable back in (watch the video below)
    8. adjust the tension (see this link , it's the same as the Luna Fixed, tension is 94hz max )
    9. Tighten both axle nut real hard
    For step 4 please watch this following video:





    Electrical Troubleshooting

    Normally the display will show you an error code if there is a problem sensed by the controller, please see below the error code list

    04 Throttle on high position : Throttle stuck or broken, unplug and plug back, replace if needed.
    05 Throttle error : Incorrect throttle signal, check connection or replace the throttle
    11 Motor over temperature : Could means the temp sensor is unplugged or missing, in case of a real overheating the controller will shutdown the system (after showing you the Error 14)
    12 Current sensor error : Controller problem, contact LuanCycle
    14 Motor‘s temperature sensor : Motor temperature high, reduce the load or let the motor cool off, can happen after a long climb at higher power levels
    15 Controller over temperature : Could be a problem with the controller, normally you will get error 14
    21 Speed sensor error : speed sensor issue, see if magnet aligned (see pic below)
    25 Torque sensor error : Torque sensor signal problem, either disconnected or controller or sensor issue, throttle will also stop working.
    30 Communication error : Communication signal error, likely is a connection failure, please check that all your connections are firm (see below)


    IF you are experiencing cut outs, error 30 or complete shutdown (unrelated to overtemp shutdown) please follow these 3 steps.


    1) This is the battery, showing a standard led power readout, on/off button, and barrel charge port. Make sure that the power button is pressed in and lighting up. Remove the battery and inspect the terminals.

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    2) Display connections: 2x Green harness wire that goes into the back of the display needs to be shoved in really hard, if you are having trouble turning it on be sure to check this and the other connectors. Recommended to unplug the connector before firmly plugging it back in.

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    3) The motor main connections.

    ON the left side of the motor you will find a plastic plate with 3 screws, remove that plate to expose the connections.

    ON the far left you have the main harness multipin connector, the middle (purple) is the gearsensor (N/A) and the on on the right is the speedometer. Please check these 2 it's possible that one is halfway out an giving issues. Press them in really hard, just like the display connector, you can use a plier with tape on it to help you out.

    On on the far right you have the battery main power lead (yellow XT60), you can unplug this one and measure the voltage from the battery to be sure that you dont have a bad connection. With the power button to ON, you should be measure anything from 38V to 54.6V.

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    Error 21H or erratic speed reading?

    Please make sure that the magnet is properly aligned with the sensors

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    Removing the bare motor.

    Removing the motor is pretty easy, no special tools required.

    Remove bash guard (4x hex bolts )
    Remove plastic cover on non drive side (3x torx bolts T10)
    Remove chainring bolts (not necessary to remove spyder )
    Remove the 3 mounting bolts (5mm hex and 10mm socket.
    Motor will drop down . ( 3 plugs go into the side of motor)


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    The connectors directly on the bare motor. Check the connection here during troubleshooting in addition to the harness.

    How to remove the chainring bracket (AKA Spider) from the motor (if you must open the motor for service):
    This is recessed so a typical ring spanner will not work. A socket style bottom bracket tool for screw in bearing cups does the job. This tool will work: Bike Hand YC-29BB-2A as well as YC-29BB. Bafang socket tools will also work. A chain whip is needed to hold the chainring when removing the locking nut. The lockring is reverse or right hand-threaded, so you must turn it clockwise to remove it.

    We have a video on how to remove the motor to change the gear with a PEEK silent gear. This might help you remove the motor from the bike

    Note: that you do not have to remove the spider (as seen at the 0:23 mark) if you do not have the deep splined socket tool. You only need to remove the spider if you are opning the motor



    IF you need to remove the chainring from the spider please take a look at this video



    This tool will work. The lockring is reverse or right hand-threaded, so you must turn it clockwise to remove it.


    Resources:

    Here is a manual on how to use the DPC240 dashboard, just click on this link to open the manual. Thank you Brad for making it!
    (please note that this unofficial manual was written for X1 and not BABE, as such some info may not be specific to this particular bike)


    For the 860C color display, please click here for the product listing and watch the video


    Parts list for the IGH

    TEARDOWN VIDEO SHOWING INTERNALS, OPERATION AND DISASSEMBLY OF A STURMEY ARCHER IGH
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Sebz; 2 weeks ago.

    #2
    Drivetrain Tuning / adjustments / troubleshooting

    Rear Sprocket popping out?

    Make sure that the front sprocket is mounted correctly. We noticed that some sprockets were installed incorrectly on the spider making the belt line crooked.

    It's an easy and permanent fix for this issue. See step 2 below if yours has already popped out.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	babe front pulley.png Views:	0 Size:	1,006.3 KB ID:	114096

    Also there is a side to the sprocket, if you look carefully there is a slight offset on one side. How to know what side to use? The "CARBON DRIVE CDX" is printed bigger on one side. So the right side is the bigger one facing you!

    Belt/IGH issues - skipping

    There are several things that can cause belt or IGH to skip or slip. We will cover each of these items below. Please follow along step by step.

    1.IGH should be in proper adjustment
    Adjusting the internal geared hub

    This bike is using the new Sturmey-Archer RSX-RK5 IGH but maintenance and adjustment is like the C50 series IGH, click here for the full manual.

    As for the adjustment if you get any grinding or skipping it might be because the IGH needs to be adjusted, so please follow this procedure

    Note: You can adjust the IGH using the adjuster knob at the end of the cable next to the shifter. Make sure to shift a few time from 1 to 2 and then from 2-3 to see if the adjustment is good.
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    2.The circlip needs to be on the IGH.
    If it has come off somehow (likely due to incorrect belt line) , here is how to bend it back into a proper circle and place back onto the IGH.

    Also there is a side to the sprocket, if you look carefully there is a slight offset on one side. How to know what side to use? The "CARBON DRIVE CDX" is printed bon one side. So the right side is the printing should be facing the IGH, not you!



    If you do not have a bench vise, you can use a hose clamp to close the gap, Thanks to Robert N for the tip

    1 First you need to bend the clip just enough to get the two ends to overlap slightly.
    2 Position the ring and tin insert (see pic) into the hose clamp and tighten slightly just until it stays in the clamp. make sure the open ends of the ring and the tin piece of metal are at the top (the screw adjuster) part of the clamp.
    3 maneuver the ring so it is centered (side to side) in the clamp.
    4 using a socket wrench tighten the clamp, you need to move the end of the ring a least 1" before any bending stays in the clip. don't attempt to do this using a screwdriver.
    5 it may slip out while tightening, just do over, be patient.
    6 once you start making progress put a mark (sharpie) at the spot where the end of the ring while tightened. if you need to squeeze more you will know where you have to go past to get more results.
    7 First got it to 1/8" then 1/4" and stopped at 3/8" overlap. each time tightening the hose clamp just a little more.

    The reason for the tin insert is the clip seemed to not seat where the screw mechanism is on the hose clamp and kept slipping out. also the open ends of the clip should be in the tin insert so they do not get caught up in the gaps on the hose clamp.

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    3. Adjust belt tension to 80-94hz with the Gates belt app

    Belt tension is an important and often overlooked factor in our testing of causes. Often it can feel or sound like something is internal, but the actual issue is the belt essentially skipping. This is invisible to the naked eye but if you shoot a video in slow-motion while getting it to skip (and after eliminating the above other potential causes) you should be able to see it.

    Adjusting the Gates carbon drive belt:

    This bike uses the same dropouts and the same gates drive system as the Luna Fixed Stealth bike so please refer to the manual over here (click link) or watch this video from the 1min mark



    The Tension on this model should be 80hz-94hz, and must be checked a multiple places on the belt. make sure that the axle nuts are very tight to avoid any movements or axle twisting.
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    4 Rear Wheel Alignment:

    This step is crucial to avoid any belt skipping or rear pulley popping out. We covered a bit of this in the video about tensionning the belt. The key is to have a perfect belt line once you have the proper tension. Do not over look this step! Under high load the frame will slightly twist (all frame do BTW) and the alignment will be a little off so if it's already a little off it will go way off! And under load the center "CenterTrack" (Gates invented this) of the belt will not be able to fit int he center spline of the rear sprocket/pulley and the belt will jump a few teeth.

    Again make sure the axles nuts are very tight once done, then re- check alignment and tension.


    Click image for larger version  Name:	babe wheel alignment text.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	128.9 KB ID:	113500
    NOTE: if you can't get it perfect best would be to have the wheel a bit to the right (front of the tire closer to the belt, or the exact opposite of the bottom drawing) because under tension the front of the wheel will have a tendency to move to the left side of the bike. Not by a lot or you will have skipping under no load (or the tire will rub on the belt.


    5.Check for any frayed or damaged cable
    Inspect the cable for any physical damage, including the housing but especially at the point where it connects to the IGH. If it is frayed or damaged, that should be repaired.

    6. Adequately captured axle rotation
    We have a custom solution that helps prevent this, they are now on hand for anyone that needs one. This replaces part of the tensioner assembly.
    It fits in the dropout
    and is an improvement over the stock parts, but is not the only thing to keep in mind regarding this issue. This will only prevent the axle from twisting or moving under load, might be useful for some who experienced internal skipping on gear #3.
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    7. The bike is NOT being started from a stop in 1st or 2nd rather than a high gear
    In other words, care is being taken not to lug the drivetrain in the wrong gear. If it is too much for you to pedal without the motor on, then you probably have it in the wrong gear. Always start in 1st or second gear, never in 3rd,4th or 5th.

    8. Inspect the belt and pulleys
    Remove the belt do not bend it more than 2 inch radius, inspect the inside track and teeth. Inspect the pulleys do any signs of damage to the center track or teeth. Also turn the front ring to see if you have any wobbling, repeat for the rear.
    Last edited by Sebz; 6 days ago.

    Comment


      #3
      If you are browsing for information on the bike... there are a few questions answered in the LUNA FAT BABE website in the comments section and on the Luna Cycle Facebook page post comments section.

      Apparently this bike uses the same motor as the Luna X1 Enduro 750W. I'm not sure why they are calling this one 800W, but not much difference there either way. I believe Bafang rates this same motor as 500W and in the X1 Enduro thread I'd say a majority of people think this motor is comparable with other 500W motors. I've never ridden an electric bike, this will be my first, so I'll use my stock legs vs legs with motor as my comparison.

      There's a million posts about the noise of the m600 motor so I'm sure it's audible while riding........ but it's a bicycle with a motor, what do you expect?

      Also from reading the Luna X1 Enduro thread I predict a lot of subjective discussions on how the bicycle is geared and whether or not it's fast enough top speed VS low speed maneuvering through sand and the merits of an IGH.

      I'm up late and I am looking forward to unboxing this bike so I need to wait and see. XD
      Last edited by Recorrigan; 02-03-2020, 02:39 AM. Reason: Help new people with info.

      Comment


        #4
        Got my shipping notice too. Can't wait. My first E-Bike, first Fat Tire, first Disk Brakes, first IGH, first Belt Drive.
        Last edited by kengps; 02-02-2020, 10:51 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          I am wondering about the Bafang m600 mid motor, what are the build specifics of the motor for LUNA BABE? It's rumored to have metal gears. Delivery scheduled for Feb 5. ^^

          Comment


          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            Pretty sure it has metal gears but I will check with the shop for confirmation :)

          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            Just got confirmation, yes it has metal gears in the M600.

          #6
          I really like the specs on this new fat bike and I look forward to hearing people's impression of it. Things that I'm most curious about;

          1. How is it geared? When I hear it is set for 27mph I worry that it's geared too tall for deep snow and sandy beaches (which is where the IGH and belt drive have real advantages). From my point of view, if you just want to rip down the bike path (fast) you would be better off with a chain drive.
          2. If it's geared too tall, how hard is it change the gearing and how much will it cost? It's my understanding that these belts are not cheap.
          3. Is there any end user programmability with M600 motor? I saw a note about 'custom Luna firmware' and now I'm concerned. The X1 is a wonderful bike but the lack of end user tweaking to the settings is turning out to be a major bummer for me. I don't think the X1 is tuned as well as it could be and am now worried that I'll never be able to change that. I became a Luna customer in the first place since I could by a modded controller for my BBS02, a programming cable, and various parts and tools to set my bike up just the way I pleased. The current 'locked down' offerings have all the downsides of the other brand name e-bikes out there and none of the end user magic that seemed to be part of the Luna customer culture. This is sort of the 'Right to Repair' issue that is going on in the automotive world too.

          New owners, please post! Thanks

          Comment


          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            Please note this is a documentation page, if you do not want to buy it that's fine but this is open for people to discuss technical aspects, not to talk trash.

            As to Bafang, being open is certainly not what Bafang have been doing all along. Bafang is the largest ebike parts factory in the world, and the vast majority of their stuff is not end user programmable. BBSxx is the outlier, not the norm, especially when it comes to OEM equipment.

            I agree that programmability is nice for people that like to tweak stuff, but that tends not to be most people, and I think after so many years we have a pretty good handle on how to program something to suit most folks needs. Maybe not everybody, but most. Yes there are replacement parts we can source, and no the motor/controller is not 'disposable'.

          • kite_rider
            kite_rider commented
            Editing a comment
            Are we not discussing the technical aspects of the Luna BABE? This is hardly 'trash talk' and I'm offended that you would see it that way.

            Please back up your claim that programmability on Bafang Mid Drive motors is not the the norm.
            BBS01 - Programmable
            BBS02 - Programmable
            BBSHD - Programmable
            Bafang MAX Drive - Programmable
            Bafang Ultra - Programmable

            Has Luna Cycle ever sold a Bafang Mid drive (prior to the X1) that wasn't programmable? If this matters to so few customers; why not just tell them up front? I'm encouraged when you say 'not programmable at this time' - since it might mean that you are working with Bafang to make it available sometime in the future. I'm telling you, as a customer, it's a big deal to me. Any words of assurance that you are working towards that on behalf of your customers would be nice to hear.

            Same issue on the gearing. The BABE may come with the perfect gearing range for me and that would be great. But if it's not, I want to know what range of gears I *could* put on this bike to adjust it. So it would be nice to know if I could install a larger or smaller pulley on the front and / or the rear of this bike. Also, it would be good to know how much this modification would cost *before* I bought the bike.

            Anyway, please take this a *constructive criticism* from a long time customer who has been loving Bafang mid drive powered mountain bikes for years now. I've learned plenty from others on these forums and I'm happy to share what I've experienced along the way too.

          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            Like I said BBSxx is the outlier. All of the motors you listed are essentially design revisions of the BBS01. Bafang product lines covers a lot more than just BBSxx motors. If you want proof just go to bafang's OEM website and look at their product catalog.

            I can not predict the future, at this time it is not programmable. Maybe that will change, who knows.

          #7
          Are the brake rotors on this the 180mm or 203mm size - I notice the 4 piston Tektro Dorado e725 it is spec'd with can be had with either size.

          Comment


          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            Let me check, will get back to you.

          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            The rotors are 180 rear, and 203 front.

          • AdmiralSnackbar
            AdmiralSnackbar commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks for the update! Should stop 60# of ebike well!

          #8
          Got it! Took it for a short spin in the parking lot. At 250lbs, I was doing 18-20mph in the parking lot on throttle only (boost). Mid-20's on boost while pedaling. Probably faster if i didn't run out of room. Brakes are good. I'm 6' 3" and it fits good with the seat up as high as possible. Here's some pics of the final product:

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          Last edited by sinlab; 02-05-2020, 01:10 PM. Reason: update

          Comment


          • sinlab
            sinlab commented
            Editing a comment
            Riding/Shifting without any power wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Definitely ride-able if you run out of juice. The pedal assist is very responsive. Again, this is all in a parking lot. The true test will be this weekend on the American River Bike trail (on and off road). I will test range, climbing, etc. Eventually I will test range with throttle only. Power levels are Walk, 0-5, and B (boost?). As far as assembly, make sure all bolts are tightened! Check them all! I had to re-torque the pinch bolts on the stem and cranks. The left rear axle nut was also loose. Other than that, most of the assembly was snipping zip ties!

          • asignore
            asignore commented
            Editing a comment
            Live the pics. Seems like these and the Luna photos are just about the only ones in the Internet. Any ride updates? I’d love to hear your thoughts on the speed, torque and ability of the bike.

          • Babe Rider
            Babe Rider commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks for the response. Just what I needed to hear! I believe I read that the "B" boost level is not used on this bike because it has a throttle, but I'm not 100% sure.

          #9
          I’ve been waiting for some pics to drop of the first bikes. Looks great.

          Comment


          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            Yeah no wonder the shop decided on calling it babe, that is one sexy bike

          #10
          my BABE is due next week, although it looks like it got stuck in some bad weather in IL
          may I ask what size gates belt, e.g. how many teeth?
          should the need to replace it arise

          Comment


            #11
            First post on this forum, new Luna BABE owner. I just picked mine up last night at the 'store' in El Segundo. Pretty grass-roots place, Erik was walking around in Pajama pants and socks, must be a laid-back place to work, brings new meaning to "casual work wear".

            I assembled it, no surprises there, battery had almost a full charge. I figured out the display fairly quickly, pretty simple if you're at all familiar with the way these things work. It was dark in my neighborhood by the time I was ready for a ride and no headlight/taillight, so I was cautious.

            I had a 750W hub-motor bike before this, basic performance is very similar with good acceleration in gear. This is the first S/A IGH bike I've ridden in a very long time, and I wasn't familiar with how it would perform, so careful there as well. Figured it out fast enough though. Upshift is very smooth and quiet, downshift (5-4-3, etc.) on the other hand is clunky and noisier and the shift collar is very stiff, I'm hoping it breaks in a bit more and becomes more consistent up and down shifting. I want to see how this climbs in 1st and 2nd gear, I'll be it has some awesome torque with the mid-drive and IGH combination.

            Response to pedal / accel is better than most bikes I've ridden recently, pleased about that. I tried out the 9 segment and the 5 segment Pedal Assist, I prefer the 5 segment, I just don't need that many choices, in fact I may go with 3 segments, but I really liked the assist the level 4/5 offered. More riding and familiarity will be required to really decide.

            The brakes are killer, if I pulled any harder i would have gone over the bars, the tires at 25psi are super grippy. The front suspension with the dial-a-compression is nice in combination with the softness of the tires. Riding / hopping over parking bumpers was so smooth.

            Can't wait to get this on dirt, it's going to be a fun bike.

            Dan.

            Comment


              #12
              The BABE looks pretty nice. Curious, as a possible buyer of this bike - is there any chance we can add a rear rack to the bike? Based on the pictures of the bike, it's very clean.... maybe to clean whereas I'm not sure if one would even mount to the bike.

              Any other accessories or upgrades planned for the bike from LUNA?

              Comment


              • paxtana
                paxtana commented
                Editing a comment
                Bottom just reinforces it so I would think the clamp does not really need to have full contact, though you could make that clamped portion circular with some Sugru if you wanted to mold a bit onto there.

                Likely it just needs to be able to fit over the diameter, which does not look to be a problem. Especially since you could just use longer bolts if you absolutely had to.

              • boarkid
                boarkid commented
                Editing a comment
                paxtana Is there any chance something like this would fit the BABE: https://www.blackburndesign.com/p/ou...ear-bike-rack? Might be overkill at a load rating of 70 lbs but if this happened to be an option, that might just be enough to give me the confidence to go for it and decide later which rack would work best.
                Last edited by boarkid; 02-17-2020, 07:18 PM. Reason: Try to get the @user tagging formatted correctly

              • paxtana
                paxtana commented
                Editing a comment
                Sure if you use the mounts I linked earlier.

                https://lunacycle.com/no-drill-battery-mount-kit/

                The rack you linked to is expecting M5 bolt holes in certain spots at the lower portion for that to bolt into. The mount kit I linked above provides those M5 mount holes. The top portion of that rack just uses the seatpost so no problem there.

              #13
              I got my bike a couple of days ago and had the chance to go out for a twenty mile ride yesterday morning and here are my first impressions. There's a lot that I won't know about this bicycle until I've owned it for a year and after that two years etc. such as the maintenance issues and longevity of the bicycle, but I'm very optimistic. My main use case for getting this bicycle is as a commuter bike to take on my five mile commute down paved roads. A good section of this commute is along a busy road that is about 45mph speed limit so I wanted to get something that will get me through this section faster. Here are my pros and cons for the Fat Babe.

              PRO

              Build Quality - This bike is super well made! Everything fits together snugly, the frame feels super strong and bigger and stronger looking than in the pictures with gorgeous welds and geometry.

              Looks - When I finally got the thing put together and put my commuting gear on it I had this stupid grin because OMG what a bad-ass frigging bike! It's the Dodge Ram of bicycles. People aren't going to think you have some environmentalist zero-carbon objective going on, they are going to think you don't give a damn because you look like the truck loving equivalent of a bicyclist.

              Ride Quality - You're going to want to change out the seat for something comfortable, but after that, you will be riding in a fantastic upright posture with your arms out wide and leisurely cruising along at 20mph with awesome traction and a smooth ride.

              Engine - The engine is fantastic on flat ground and on low grades (more about climbing hills down in the CON section). The engine is responsive, gives smooth power delivery, it's about as loud as your idling car but higher-pitched, but not annoying at all to me. The torque feels most powerful in the middle RPM's, but it's not anemic at low and high RPM's. You get the most power from throttle only compared to pedaling on flat ground, but when you start to do hills, then as the grade of the hill gets higher you have to pedal more to compensate. On the flat ground, you feel the power of the motor with the motor on pedal assist levels 4 and 5 and that is where I get the most enjoyment from the bike. I'm faster than on my skinny commuting non-electric bike and get the advantages of an awesome fat bike instead.

              Gearing - I think this bike is geared as close to optimally as the five gears will allow. On the flat, paved roads, I start off in second gear and go up to gear 4 or 5 depending on how fast I want to ride. 4th gear is about 13-18 miles an hour and 5th gear is 18-22 miles an hour and that's for pedaling without difficulty. If you want to go faster than that you'll have to pedal harder and harder. Shifting from 1-5 is super smooth and quiet. I don't think this IGH is meant to downshift under power so what I do is stop pedaling and shift all the way down to the gear that I expect to be in. For example, if I think I'm coming to a stop then I will shift down to 2nd gear.

              Range - I took her on a 22 mile ride and up a mountain and on power assist 5 most of the time and using throttle only about 15% of the time and I still have 45% battery left when I got home so I could have gone around 40 miles. Considering my commute to work is only 5 miles I'll be able to ride this battery out for at least four years and maybe up to ten years. I'll probably want a spare battery around the 5 year mark for if I want to go on longer rides so hopefully they are selling spare batteries by then!

              Off-Roading - It's a Fat Bike so that's the biggest benefit of having one besides the comfort.

              Gates Belt - I don't even know it's there, but that's the enjoyment of it. I don't have to look at my greasy bike chain and chainrings anymore.

              CON

              Power - Results may vary from user to user. I weigh 200 lbs and the bike weighs 65 lbs out of the box. With my gear on the bike, it probably weighs 100 lbs and fully clothed with my backpack on I'm probably 215 lbs so that would be 315 lbs this motor has to push around. I took the bike over to a nearby State Park and took it up to the top of a mountain in the morning yesterday. On any medium-grade hill, you are going to be down in 2nd gear and you'll be doing work with your legs, the bike won't be able to go up the hill on motor throttle only. On medium-high grade hill, you are going to be in 1st gear and pedaling the bike up the hill. The motor does an excellent job of helping out, but at this point, you are doing more work than the motor is because it just doesn't have the low-end torque to do a hill climb. If you think you are going to cruise up to the top of a hill to do some downhill single track biking don't buy this bike, you want to go get a 2000 watt full suspension trail bike.

              Looks - Some people might not want a monster beefy badass looking bike, look elsewhere.

              Internal Gear Hub - It makes a lot of gear noise while in the middle gears and it doesn't downshift under power. I'll keep it until it wears out because I'm pretty sure I will wear it out after 5 years, but part of me wants to go find a top of the line IGH so the shifting would be buttery. Even so, I still like it more than a rear derailleur.

              Hope this helps!

              Comment


              • tp3691
                tp3691 commented
                Editing a comment
                Thank you very much for the detailed feedback. I'm really really torn between getting something like this, a bad ass looking bike or some more all around purpose like the DOST bike.

                What are the two bags you have on your bike? In the triangle and off the seat. Thx!

              • Recorrigan
                Recorrigan commented
                Editing a comment
                Hey sorry I skipped this over the first time. Those are good bags, Ortleib. The triangular shaped one is the medium size frame bag and the seatpost bag is the large like 15 liters. I also got a bike cover because you aren't supposed to leave the battery in direct sunlight, I got the SKS fatboard front and back fender, they fit great. I also have a cloud 9 seat.

              #14
              Thank you for the detailed write up. Is the lack of power concerning enough that i should hold out until a ludacris option is available? I’m a bit lighter at 165 and don’t plan on adding any accessories to the bike but there’s a bitch of a hill (paved road) to get up to the trails i ride and one of my main reasons for getting the bike is so that I’m not gassed every time i get to the top.

              Comment


              • Recorrigan
                Recorrigan commented
                Editing a comment
                I think 30% is what steep public roads are graded at, that is what I consider a steep hill. This morning I discovered you can push the throttle and still pedal to get the most power out of the motor, more than through pedal assist It should be pretty comfortable to pedal up a steep hill with using the throttle.

                Edit: I looked up some steep streets and 30% grade is VERY steep. You'd have to walk this bike up that. Probably 20% you can do with the throttle in low gear and pedaling to assist.
                Last edited by Recorrigan; 02-08-2020, 08:50 PM.

              • zmarkjam
                zmarkjam commented
                Editing a comment
                Actually AZguy, the Luna X1 Enduro uses the same M600 motor and has the option for standard (750 watt) and ludi (2000 watt). Maybe not that much of a stretch to think the Babe may be optioned with ludi in the near future. There may be concern though about the strength of the IGH to handle ludi power.

              • AZguy
                AZguy commented
                Editing a comment
                That's cool - since my understanding (would love to be wrong about this) is lack of user access to controller parameters on the M600 has left me not paying much attention to it... On a tangent, I rode a bafang ultra and had a lot of difficulty at lower RPM's since I only have one leg and can't push all that hard with the missing one and so it would surge when I pushed with the real leg.... I would need to disable the torque sensor on any of these...

              #15
              2020-02-09 ~ 'Assembled my BABE and have put 5 miles on it while doing the usual systems check things. All is good so far with the exception of the Tektro HD E-750 brake system. The brakes work superbly with the exception of them not communicating with the M600 Bafang motor system. Specifically, while using peddle assist or throttle, actuating either of the brake levers does not cause the motor to cut-out. I have checked the brake cut-out cable connectors at their upper location and where they terminate at the motor, disconnected and reconnected them all with no change. Attached is an image of the connections at the motor along with an image of the Hardware Version indicated on the Bafang Dashboard. Any suggestions of where to look next to enable the brake cut-off feature will be appreciated, thanks.
              Last edited by EZ Rider; 02-09-2020, 06:59 PM.

              Comment


              • paxtana
                paxtana commented
                Editing a comment
                Please email support@lunacycle.com so we can look into this for you

              • EZ Rider
                EZ Rider commented
                Editing a comment
                I contacted Support at Luna and received a speedy reply from the Electronics Tech Section explaining that though the sensors are there, there wasn't a way to make the e-brake function work with the M-600.
                Last edited by EZ Rider; 06-19-2020, 05:44 AM.

              • kite_rider
                kite_rider commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks for the update on this EZRider. Over on the X1 page I was advised to install an EBrake as a way to disable the power when you don't want it on the M600. After about a week of asking around, I'm beginning to think that it's just not possible to enable. Though they can be a nuisance at times, they come in real handy when you don't want tons of torque sent to the back wheel. On my older bike, I need this when shifting under heavy load and on my X1 I'd like this when I'm riding really slow technical sections of rugged trails.
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