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    #31
    Regarding Post #1 by the Administrator; notice that this post is regularly being added to with more information about the BABE including specs, trouble shooting and how to make important adjustments. I, for one, really appreciate that; thanks Luna.

    Comment


      #32
      Hub Damage?

      I took the bike out for a quick spin last night, working out some adjustments, new head/tail light.
      I have found that I can updshift (ex: 3-4-5) under light pedaling and it's butter!
      However, I found that to make a successful downshift (5-4-3-2) I need to stop pedaling, complete the shift then I can start pedaling. That is going to be a problem when I'm on a trail and need to adjust gears.

      But to my point - I went from 5 to 4 to 3, almost that deliberately, but right as I thought I was in 3rd gear I started light pedaling. There was a significant clunk/clang in the hub.
      After that, as I used the throttle (not pedaling) there was a delay before it engaged the gear, then a very noticeable clunk before power was applied. I think I damaged the hub somehow.

      Can anyone with Sturmey-Archer experience chime in here? It seems that the hub comes apart pretty easily and I'm not afraid of diving in, but if anyone has any knowledge about what may have happened I would appreciate hearing about it.

      To add, it seems that the hub is a little delicate if I can't shift like that, I'm concerned about the lifespan of the hub on a bike like this.

      Thanks in advance.

      Dan.

      Comment


      • Danz E-ryd
        Danz E-ryd commented
        Editing a comment
        +AZguy this sort of behaves like a broken dog, but the pedal torque when I reapplied was light enough that I would really doubt that just that one event broke it. And I do appreciate the ease of shifting an IGH at zero speed, but it's going to take some getting used to that style. Thanks for your comment! Dan.

      • AZguy
        AZguy commented
        Editing a comment
        If the dogs are trying to engage with enough speed difference between the dogs even a low torque will chip or break dogs - there aren't any synchronizers like a car manual transmission and they are teeny-tiny in comparison

        On a different note I got a chance to ride a rohloff a few weeks ago and was *very* impressed but can't justify the 10-20x price over a quality derailleur system... I haven't ridden the SA IGH's so really can't compare or have any first hand with them

      • EZ Rider
        EZ Rider commented
        Editing a comment
        I'm having a similar experience Danz E-ryd. In the first few miles of easy riding while getting things sorted, I too believe I may have damaged my hub while up/down shifting while using pedal assist. I'm experienced with an internally geared hub on a pedal power bike but the challenge for me is remembering how much more power is going to the hub now on an e-bike. Where before we could merely slack-off our pedaling and "feel" our way through shifts (like shifting a car or bike without using the clutch), we now need to stop pedaling to make clean shifts that won't damage the Sturmey Archer. I've adjusted the shift cable and it helped and my 1,2,4 and 5 gears are fine, but even with easy cruising in 3rd gear I get the occasional "clunk" or "bang" that does not sound or feel good, all with less than 20 miles of easy riding. I'll service this Sturmey Archer hub when and if necessary to make it live a while but I'll be looking at a Rohloff for the future, the quality of this bike deserves it IMO.

      #33
      I'm completely new to IGH transmissions. But so far I have found it works quite well to stop pedaling, then shift down the second I feel the power cut out. It takes a half second or so, and is quite predictable. I can nail the shift point very accurately. I don't see me losing much speed before I am back on the pedals again, even going up hill and needing a down-shift.

      Comment


        #34
        New to e-bikes and fat tire bikes I was curious what everyone uses for flat protection on there fat tire bikes?
        Just received my Luna Babe and want to make sure I protect the tires.

        Comment


        • AZguy
          AZguy commented
          Editing a comment
          Stans is my friend - been using it for ~8000mi and zero flats even in AZ land of pointy stuff

          I use it in the tubes and way more than they recommend (8-16oz per tire)

        #35
        Originally posted by Danz E-ryd View Post
        Hub Damage?

        I took the bike out for a quick spin last night, working out some adjustments, new head/tail light.
        I have found that I can updshift (ex: 3-4-5) under light pedaling and it's butter!
        However, I found that to make a successful downshift (5-4-3-2) I need to stop pedaling, complete the shift then I can start pedaling. That is going to be a problem when I'm on a trail and need to adjust gears.

        But to my point - I went from 5 to 4 to 3, almost that deliberately, but right as I thought I was in 3rd gear I started light pedaling. There was a significant clunk/clang in the hub.
        After that, as I used the throttle (not pedaling) there was a delay before it engaged the gear, then a very noticeable clunk before power was applied. I think I damaged the hub somehow.

        Can anyone with Sturmey-Archer experience chime in here? It seems that the hub comes apart pretty easily and I'm not afraid of diving in, but if anyone has any knowledge about what may have happened I would appreciate hearing about it.

        To add, it seems that the hub is a little delicate if I can't shift like that, I'm concerned about the lifespan of the hub on a bike like this.

        Thanks in advance.

        Dan.
        Does this bike have a shift sensor?
        2nd build, 2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH
        3rd build, 2018 Crust Evasion step-thru, BBS02, Nexus INTER-3 IGH
        4th build, 2016 Salsa Marrakesh flatbar frameset, BBSHD, Alfine 8 IGH
        5th build, 2019 Crust Evasion, BBS02 or BBSHD, Alfine 8 IGH
        Other, Electronic throttle lock

        Comment


        • kengps
          kengps commented
          Editing a comment
          I see a shift sensor I think? A little rectangular box under the chainstay that has the shifter cable running thru it and a wire/connector out? Maybe it's just like the brake cut-outs. They are installed but don't work with the programming.

        • ncrkd
          ncrkd commented
          Editing a comment
          A "little rectangular box" on the shift cable - sounds like a shift sensor to me - that's good.

          I'm flummoxed about that brake lever motor cut-off situation, honestly.
          Last edited by ncrkd; 1 week ago.

        • paxtana
          paxtana commented
          Editing a comment
          Ebrakes are more trouble than they're worth TBH. So much better to just have brakes that are strong enough to stop the bike even when the motor is running. Regular mopeds do not have brake cutouts, neither do motorcycles, but for some reason ebike parts suppliers keep trying to make a solution to a problem that does not exist.

          Over the 7 years I have been involved in the scene as moderator for ebike related forums, writer for ebike related topics, and employee of an ebike company, I have only seen reports of a stuck ebike throttle three times. Of those three, two were the direct result of damage to the throttle itself. Contrast that to the number of times I have seen people get cutouts due to malfunctioning ebrakes, often I see a report like this on a weekly basis. One example is the Sur-Ron, a famously durable bike at this point but cutout due to ebrake can cause folks unfamiliar with it to think it is janky. It is also why one of the first troubleshooting steps for that bike is to disable that 'feature'.

        #36
        Went for a test today to see how it climbs hills. By my horsepower calculations (I weigh 165) this bike should theoretically do a 30% grade at 5.7 mph (I used 750 watts at the wheel for calculation). I did a 15% grade today at 13 mph, indicating 930 watts so thats about right. At a cadence of approximately 60/minute the bike is geared for about 6 mph in first gear. So motor should be turning at a normal rpm on a 30% grade in first gear. Not sure how long this motor can sustain 900 watts continuous. I have a couple of 25% grades where I ride that are 100-150 feet long. So hopefully it'll do it for the 11-17 seconds I need to make the top. Of course I will be helping to pedal also which will lighten the load some.
        Last edited by kengps; 1 week ago.

        Comment


          #37
          Here's another valuable resource for BABE owners, this one is from Gates with most everything you need to know about the Gates Carbon Drive System. (The link below is for a PDF download of the Gates Carbon Drive Manual, perhaps Admin can check it out and "tune up" this link to make it a little easier to use if necessary)

          http://file:///C:/Users/User/Downloa...anualen(2).pdf
          Last edited by EZ Rider; 6 days ago.

          Comment


          #38
          1 mile on Luna Babe and now it won’t turn on? Tried all problem solving fixes I know :(?

          Comment


          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            Make sure it is charged, unplug and FIRMLY replug the connector into the back of the display, if no joy, remove the three screws on the motor to unplug and replug on the motor itself.

            If no joy email support@lunacycle.com

          #39
          Answering this question from TP3691 ~ "Do you have any pictures of the kick stand? I hear it's placement is a bit troublesome".

          Here are some photos related to the kickstand and spacing of the crank arms. The kickstand bracket is integral to the frame and of standard dimensions to fit a variety of aftermarket kickstands; the one provided looks good and is well placed for balancing this hefty bike on a stand. During my first rides, I was smacking both the heels of my size 12 4E athletic shoes into the lower frame. The frame by necessity is built wide to accommodate the 4" tires. The pedal arms have been spaced at the the crank to allow them to clear the frame. The pedals are narrow to keep the profile of the bike as narrow as possible for trail riding and avoiding obstacles. A rider can "cheat" their foot out on the peddles to avoid the frame and kickstand. If keeping a narrow profile isn't a priority, one can search up some crank arms with more offset and/or add wider pedals. When we're "tuning", there are always sacrifices and compromises to be made in one direction or another.

          Comment


            #40
            Pedal extenders may provide a simple solution. https://www.amazon.com/16-Pedal-Exte...s%2C202&sr=8-2

            Comment


            • EZ Rider
              EZ Rider commented
              Editing a comment
              Perfect! Thanks zmarkjam...

            #41
            Responding to asignore's question: "Beautiful pictures. have you had the bike on any hills or trails? In your estimation, are you wanting for more power or is it more than adequate"?

            My estimation of the BABE's ability to climb hills and trails is that it has more than adequate power. I'm 185 lbs and in "average" condition, steep ramps that I had previously had to stand on the peddles for in first gear I can now ride seated using moderate peddle assist in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear with power to spare. Long grades that I would previously just avoid I can now take seated with mid-range peddle assist and mid range gear selection. For aggressive climbing on a trail, IMO loosing traction or stressing the drive train is more of an issue than not having enough power. This is NOT a motorcycle of virtually unlimited torque with a massive chain driving a massive rear sprocket. IMO the motor and final drive system on the BABE is perfectly matched to the weight and design of the rest of the bike. Putting more power to anything always leads to more changes needing to be made to accommodate that power. I don't work for LUNA but I think they nailed it with the power/drive train/weight/intended use ratio on the BABE. The only potential issue I see in the power/drive train department with the BABE is with the Sturmey Archer 5 speed hub; the gear ratios are beautifully matched to the motor and bike BUT a rider has to be very careful not to shift up or down while under load so as not to damage the hub.

            Comment


              #42
              I purchased this clamp-on Kickstand. Worked perfectly, other than screws which were a bit long. I had some shorter screws which I used.
              https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

              Comment


                #43
                Tested a steep, but short hill yesterday. Had bike in first gear, power assist on 5. Started climbing at 3 mph. IGH started clunking/popping noise as soon as I added a lot of torque. Really didn't expect that considering I was not trying to shift gears at the time. I aborted climb attempt, and IGH was still clunking on level ground. Thought I had damaged it. Shifted up to 2nd, then back to first. Noise cleared up, and been fine since then. I checked gear change adjustment, and it was just barely out of alignment by maybe 1mm. I adjusted until it was perfectly aligned. Not sure if it helped any. When I first got the bike it was out by 2mm, and it did make getting into first inconsistent. I'd have to over-rotate then release gear selector to get first. So will 1mm affect gear selection that much? I don't know. Afraid to try a heavy load in first gear again. Thinking maybe I should adjust gear change arm 1mm towards first gear direction. Anyone have advice/experience with IGH?

                I tried to detect gear shift sensor, but really can't tell if it works or not. Can anyone confirm whether it is programmed in? I think I saw on Original post that it didn't have one, but today it says it does.
                Last edited by kengps; 3 days ago.

                Comment


                  #44
                  After reading some of the shifting issues / clunking IGH posts, I'm going to butt in with some generic rotary shift IGH hub thoughts.

                  No, I don't own a Babe or any SA hubs. I do own a handfull of Shimano 8-speed rotary shift IGH bikes though.

                  First, I'm presuming that the Babe has a compressionless, linear strand shift cable housing. With a new IGH bike, I'd consider tensioning / bedding / pre-stretching the shift cable, then verifying the cable adjustment by:
                  1. setting the shifter into the highest cable tension gear (probably 5th gear on the Sturmey Archer hub (1st or 8th on the Shimano)) and leaving it under tension overnight
                  2. while under tension, wiggle the cable housing side to side, up at the shifter, and down at the hub, making sure it is seated in the fittings
                  3. finally, shift the shifter end-to end a few times, from 1st to 5th, then back to 2nd to recheck the adjustment
                  4. repeat 3
                  5. for a while, I'd then check the adjustment frequently
                  You really, REALLY don't want to abuse an e-powered rotary shift IGH that's out of adjustment. Luna is the only source right now for this hub - don't blow it up.

                  If, while out riding, the hub pops or bangs, ease off then re-apply power. If it pops again, stop and check the cable alignment - don't wait till you get home.
                  Last edited by ncrkd; 3 days ago.
                  2nd build, 2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH
                  3rd build, 2018 Crust Evasion step-thru, BBS02, Nexus INTER-3 IGH
                  4th build, 2016 Salsa Marrakesh flatbar frameset, BBSHD, Alfine 8 IGH
                  5th build, 2019 Crust Evasion, BBS02 or BBSHD, Alfine 8 IGH
                  Other, Electronic throttle lock

                  Comment


                    #45
                    Originally posted by ncrkd View Post
                    After reading some of the shifting issues / clunking IGH posts, I'm going to butt in with some generic rotary shift IGH hub thoughts.

                    No, I don't own a Babe or any SA hubs. I do own a handfull of Shimano 8-speed rotary shift IGH bikes though.

                    First, I'm presuming that the Babe has a compressionless, linear strand shift cable housing. With a new IGH bike, I'd consider tensioning / bedding / pre-stretching the shift cable, then verifying the cable adjustment by:
                    1. setting the shifter into the highest cable tension gear (probably 5th gear on the Sturmey Archer hub (1st or 8th on the Shimano)) and leaving it under tension overnight
                    2. while under tension, wiggle the cable housing side to side, up at the shifter, and down at the hub, making sure it is seated in the fittings
                    3. finally, shift the shifter end-to end a few times, from 1st to 5th, then back to 2nd to recheck the adjustment
                    4. repeat 3
                    5. for a while, I'd then check the adjustment frequently
                    You really, REALLY don't want to abuse an e-powered rotary shift IGH that's out of adjustment. Luna is the only source right now for this hub - don't blow it up.

                    If, while out riding, the hub pops or bangs, ease off then re-apply power. If it pops again, stop and check the cable alignment - don't wait till you get home.
                    Thanks for this info. For a new user of a S/A IGH, I wasn't sure how it all blended together - sensitive to input torque during downshift, sensor/no sensor.
                    I contacted Sturmey/Archer with my problem and got a prompt response from David. They tell me to take the bike back to Luna to see if the hub needs repair. Not a very convenient solution but if I have to I will, however Luna does not seem like a conventional bike shop that will do repairs, is that correct? I'm local to them, I will contact them to see if that will be a solution.

                    What concerns me the most is Davids response as to how to shift. Here's his response:
                    "It would be sensitive to any torque input. It is the same thing as a manual transmission car. If you do not use the clutch, you will destroy the transmission. The clutch in a bicycle situation is not loading the drivetrain. If you load the drivetrain while shifting on any bicycle transmission (Internal gear hub or derailleur) you will damage the drivetrain. Add a motor into the mix and you will damage it that much faster"

                    So, there's a couple things I find odd here, I have owned a lot of bikes with derailleur's and downshifted them climbing a hill many times with no problem. This IGH is NOT exactly like a derailleur transmission. It is much more sensitive, or so it appears, to input torque during downshifting. I am disappointed in his response, I kind of expected more of a problem-solving step rather than placation of the problem.
                    I will contact Luna, not sure their willingness to repair this, but what else can I do? I'm willing to take the hub apart, but if I find something broken, then what?

                    Also, without specifically doing the above steps recommended by ncrkd , I think I've actually achieved the same result to condition the cable. I cycled the cable through the gears and have checked the adjustment several times. It has never gone out of adjustment, seems cable stretch is not an issue with my bike, but I'll keep checking.

                    Comment


                    • paxtana
                      paxtana commented
                      Editing a comment
                      That is not something that Luna would typically do however since you are local and would not have to have the bike shipped back and forth it would be a lot more doable than for most customers. So it's probably fine although there will be some time it will take to do the inspection since we're not typically set up for that. In other words you would need to drop it off and come back, not something shop would be able to have a look at on the spot.

                    • Danz E-ryd
                      Danz E-ryd commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Not a problem for me, can I drop it off in the afternoon?

                    • paxtana
                      paxtana commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yes that would be fine. Be sure to bring your order# so they can reference it, in case you need to coordinate with Support on getting updates it would help that the bike is tagged properly
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