Luna BBSHD Ludicrous V2 controller documentation

[Dlew]

i'm not totally clear; is it working now...are you able to see the controller now without the USB connection?

[marcos]

Thanks a lot for trying the programming and reporting back, I'm glad it solved your problem. Yeah usb connection provides its own power so that didn't count as a power cycle.

I'm still not fully convinced that the bluetooth was not programmed, in fact it was more likely to be a disconnected antenna right before being potted as it happened to me during development. If this happens to you again please let me know, there is a non-zero chance of having the BT module memory getting corrupted with the EMI inside the housing.

Um, the 1st post and the post #96 are pointing to the same user manual, and all the links to files are into the manual. I think one centralized doc is a tidier approach

[choochoo]

I'm being told here that each controller is connected over BT to test the connection, so it should be unlikely to have blank BLE modules. Sounds like both of you are having the same issue, if one of you could take the controller off and reprogram it we would all learn something...

I'm attaching the bit of internal documentation related to the BLE programming, you would need to install vesc tool for windows, or vesc tool for linux from here https://vesc-project.com/node/17 and connect over usb.

I have the controller connected via USB and have the Windows VESC tool open. I followed the five directions then power cycled the controller.

I initially left the USB plugged in and didn't see it listed in Bluetooth. Once I removed the usb and power cycled my Android found it!!

So it looks like a batch of controllers escaped without being properly programmed.

It would be very helpful if post #1 had valid links to instructions, files, user manual, etc. I initially used the early user manual etc. only to later find that post #88 that has better info.

[marcos]

I'm being told here that each controller is connected over BT to test the connection, so it should be unlikely to have blank BLE modules. Sounds like both of you are having the same issue, if one of you could take the controller off and reprogram it we would all learn something...

I'm attaching the bit of internal documentation related to the BLE programming, you would need to install vesc tool for windows, or vesc tool for linux from here https://vesc-project.com/node/17 and connect over usb.

[choochoo]

I'm having the same issue.

I am a new V2 user. I have a 72V battery so I'm dead until I can change the settings in the Android app. I just purchased a BLUE V5 phone to program the V2 (I'm normally an iPhone user).

The V2 does not show up in bluetooth. The phone finds all other Bluetooth devices, but never the V2. I even took the equipment to the woods so there were no other Bluetooth devices around. It finds my bluetooth BMS and EggRider, but no V2.

The antenna looks fine.

If Luna forgot to program it how can I do it myself?

[marcos]

hum, my only ideas are checking if the bluetooth antenna is in good shape, its a thin gray wire coming out of the controller, with a transparent tip about 1.2inch long. Usually a damaged antenna still works at very close range (couple inches).
Another possibility is if someone forgot to program the bluetooth module before the potting process. This programming is done with vesc tool for desktop over usb, only takes 5 clicks and I can PM the step by step instrctions, I'm aware that pulling the controller out is a hassle though
And finally I didn't test on a samsung S7... but I use an S8 daily and works just fine so I don't think that's the problem.

[Dlew]

Hi - I just finished installing the V2. I can't get the controller to show up in the in Luna/VESC app. The Luna display is powered on, motor is working, etc. Other BLE's show up so I know bluetooth is working on the phone (Samsung Galaxy s7). Is there anything you can think of that I am missing in the set-up?

[AZguy]

Got it - I don't use the brake sensors anyway, don't like them but the gear sensor is a must have for me!

Cool, getting closer =]

[marcos]

You can connect a gearsensor to one of the 2 brake inputs. The physical connector is the same. Controllers with a 3rd brake/gearsensor cable I think have not been built because they are installed on banana bikes that don't use a gear sensor.

[AZguy]

What are the present options for a gear sensor?

[xcnick]

Thank you so much. The video helps me understand why you always sound frustrated when the only thing I ask is that you make the shaft go round and round. I am just a consumer who wants to run single speed. The fact you overshare actually works really well. I ordered another V2, a couple of motor gears and am now sorting through the stuff I have been saving for the last year. The single speed fat bike shall live. And not some barely chubby four inch, but a real five inch.

[marcos]

What can you tell me about line 22 of the log analysis? I remember it had a cool name like nitrous induced supercharging.

Oh well... you don't want to hear all I can tell about the id current. If you have like 10 hours of your life to spare this crash course in motor control sheds light on many motor drive aspects that are currently being handled by the V2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpTvZlnrsP0

A few notes about id current, commonly referred as Field Weakening current (or line 22 in the logs):
* In Field Oriented Control, iq current produces mechanical torque, id current "produces" magnetic field. Your throttle controls iq current.
* id is a real, heat-producing current, the ludi can drive id=-30A. If its sustained over time it produces I²R losses in the windings (while not producing any torque). In the V2 we limited for now the phase current to 150A, this means that id²+iq² < (150A)², but such a high current doesn't last long until thermal throttling or other limits kick in.
* It is called Field Weakening because it (sort of) weakens the magnetic field produced by the motor magnets. Lower field produces lower BEMF voltage, thus increasing the maximum speed of the machine. In theory you can reach infinite speed with a certain amount of id current. In case of the BBSHD its at id = -190A, also called short circuit current.
* My main concern about Field Weakening is that if the motor is spinning too fast and the controller faults, id suddenly collapses, the magnetic field is immediately restored and the motor generates a voltage that can be higher than what the mosfets are rated for. This stress kills a mosfet instantly, and they typically fail shorted, ie its a big bang. For this reason the Ludi v2 is rpm-limited such that a fault at max speed can't threaten the powerstage. Its still very fast, equivalent of running a 95V battery without field weakening.


I would say riding deep into field weakening produces a thermal stress equivalent to riding a stock controller uphill at mid-full torque because its about the same phase current flowing. Its not like the motor will melt instantly, its just running hotter and hotter at lower efficiency.

Me personally, I like to make good use of the field weakening region and I'm not scared of using it. For reference any tesla car would enter field weakening at about 50-60mph.

I contributed the field weakening code a while ago: https://hackaday.io/project/164932-a...kening-support
over time it was simplified, and the ludi V2 is running this simpler field weakening algorithm.

[xcnick]

Hi Marcos, hope all is well. Paxtana, where are you?.

What can you tell me about line 22 of the log analysis? I remember it had a cool name like nitrous induced supercharging.

I am running single speed with a low gear (30 gear inches). The V2's extra RPMs take the top speed from 15mph to 25mph. From 15 to 25 mph, line 22 shows more and more negative numbers. (72v)

What are the dangers of this extra RPM?

I don't think I have been up there for more than 5 seconds, but this makes a single speed much more livable.

(gears are back in stock, and I ordered another V2)

thanks

[MIKEinNC]

Thanks Marcos,
I’m quite sure that they used the Bafang protocol, because they specified that you could run the controller at 52v with an unmodified display, and only needed the modified display if you wanted to run 72v.
I will keep you posted, and thanks again.

[marcos]

Hi Mike, lets see if I can help:
1) It should have the latest firmware but it doesn't hurt to have the latest app installed on your phone, power the controller over USB and update the firmware, just in case. I know luna staff is super busy at times and I'm not physically there to help
2) Yes, its pretty straightforward
3) Yes, nothing really changes at 72V other than batt voltage and batt current limits
4) If their 750c uses the same bafang protocol and can be supplied with 12V, it should work. I guess his modification involves changing the undervoltage shutdown so its stays on at 12v
Let us know how it went. Cheers