Luna BBSHD Ludicrous V2 controller documentation

[BUD WHITE]

I have finally dialed this wonderful V2 controller to my liking and just came here to say that this is by far the most fun I have had on any of my PEV's, including my upgraded ASI BAC 4000 Sur Ron X. This enabled my fat bike build to be 3 different ebikes by a simple few pushes of some buttons to change one of my custom profiles. I have 2 questions for the future. 1. Is there any plans to create a torque sensing pedal assist option to a BBSHD in the future? And... 2. Is there a way to make my Ludicrous V1 controller bluetooth enabled at some point? Thanks again for inventing this controller. Cheers.

[marcos]

I have finally dialed this wonderful V2 controller to my liking and just came here to say that this is by far the most fun I have had on any of my PEV's, including my upgraded ASI BAC 4000 Sur Ron X. This enabled my fat bike build to be 3 different ebikes by a simple few pushes of some buttons to change one of my custom profiles

I'm happy to hear the experience is on par with a modded Sur-Ron! Can't overstate how big of a deal that is.

I have 2 questions for the future. 1. Is there any plans to create a torque sensing pedal assist option to a BBSHD in the future?

I think its not viable to retrofit a torque sensor into a BBSHD. Firmware can read torque sensors but mechanically its just too involved. There is an M600 ludi on the works with the same software platform you know and love, which does have torque assist, but the motor is much smaller so its not in the same league as a BBSHD.

And... 2. Is there a way to make my Ludicrous V1 controller bluetooth enabled at some point? Thanks again for inventing this controller. Cheers.

Nope. V1 is a modded bafang controller which means we can't introduce any firmware or hardware improvements like that, only bafang can do that, and they don't. An uart to bluetooth adapter could be installed, but the bafang protocol is so poor that there isn't much to gain there and can't be made compatible with the vesc app. VESC datalogging is super rich, to the point I can log 25,000 samples per second to analyze faults, or log a full week of dyno operation.

[BUD WHITE]

Thank you again for answering all of my questions Marcos. I am off for a long ride on the beach. Have a great day. Cheers.

[StvMan]

Is there any conflict with the Ludi V2 and installing the new firmware from EggRider (V2.5)

[marcos]

I've seen it released on the eggrider facebook group: https://m.facebook.com/groups/450084...f=group_browse
You might need to be a member to see the post

[BassNasty]

Cool, I've got a join request in on the group. Hope to get my hands on one of these ludi v2 controllers as soon as possible! Guess I have to wait. I'd be a safe use case as I believe my current BMS from EM3EV has a current trip around 60A so with my current 52v pack I wouldn't need the whole 100A.

[marcos]

The good thing is that even with only 60 battery amps you can still enjoy the monster torque of the 150 phase amps. It will throttle down at lower rpm but the initial zero rpm kick is the same.

[paxtana]

(update notification copy for reference)




Good news, your drive unit is getting even better!



Here at Luna we keep working on the Ludi V2 day and night, and after coding, testing and gathering user feedback we have some improvements to share in this new firmware release. It also comes with small tweaks into the VESC Tool app to improve the user experience.


FIRMWARE CHANGELOG


5.02 STABLE-3:

• Pre-configured battery settings:
  • Soft cutoffs
  • Overvoltage trip
  • Undervoltage trip
  • Cell count
  • Capacity
  • Current limit
• Tuned temperature limits
• More linear power level increments from the display
• Fixed App "Profiles"
• Faster boot to catch the Eggrider last level setting
• PAS keeps the motor spinning at minimum current to prevent chain slapping
• Tighter 12V rail monitoring
• New terminal command to read and store the default power level for display-less applications

VESC TOOL CHANGELOG

• Embed Luna BBSHD Ludi firmwares into the app for easier updating
• Add Motor Temperature gauge to the realtime page. Motor temp is the main limiting factor and it's good to keep it in check
• Fix FilePicker dialog used for datalogging that didn't work on some devices.
• Remove unused IMU realtime page that crashed on some devices

UPDATING THE FIRMWARE

Download the app installer here

Go to the FIRMWARE tab, select the correct firmware for your system depending on your battery type:

	52V Wolf	52V Dire Wolf	72V
Type	14s4p	14s6p	20s3p
Capacity	12Ah	21Ah	9Ah
Batt current	70A	105A	60A

Keep your Android device close to the controller and don't shut down your BBSHD while updating the custom firmware.


REQUIRED TOOLS

• BBSHD Ludicrous V2
• Android device

Have fun!






--
Luna Team

[BUD WHITE]

Just took the fat bike out for a 7 mile ride with the Dire Wolf uploaded settings and at my 3200 watt profile, this is more than enough power. Holy smokes. Even when I use my stock 1500 watt profile, this V2 controller is a beast. Torque could easily flip my bike up and over me if I don't lean forward and I am over 230lbs. I pushed it very hard in all profiles and went full throttle after starting from stop with PAS and the motor at 55 degrees isn't even warm to the touch. I remember pushing my stock controller BBSHD builds and the motor was hot enough to cook on. Great improvements here Luna Cycle crew. Cheers.

[Mike_V]

Thank You Team Luna !
Reading about the development of your custom designed products, and your history of success with those unique designs, is so very exiting for me.
Best batteries made #1 Wolf Pack
Electric motor and vehicle development breakthroughs every year for your Team
Bravo, go Luna.

[StvMan]

I have a 14s8p non-Luna pack. The batteries I am using have an individual max continuous rating of 10A p/cell or 80A max continuous overall pack. Is there an option for entering in the user’s pack parameters?

[marcos]

That's basically the email that Ludi v2 users received :)

Keep the feedback coming!

Cheers

[marcos]

Battery SOC could be off by some %.
Reliability shouldnt be severely affected because at 72v 60A you're pulling over 4kW and the motor will hit thermal throttling rather quickly, so those 60A are not really continuous. In the next rev we should be able to select a luna battery from the app, or a custom editable batt setting, all with a single firmware. Your 20s5p will pull more than 4kW, I recall logging 7kW with this ludi

[StvMan]

Hey Marcos....I just switched from the new 52V DireWolf firmware to the new 72v PowerWolf firmware and have some questions, observations, and assumptions for your review:

- Started with good 52 v battery and 52V DireWolf firmware that operated for at least one ride without issue
- egg still running V2.4
- egg shows 58.8v and 100%
- Powered off at egg
- Unplugged and replugged from 52V 14s8p battery to 72V 20s5p battery
- Powered up egg
- egg shows 11v +/- and 0%
- used VSEC tool to scan for Controller BLE from about 10’ away.....couldn’t find BLE (multiple attempts)
- moved closer ... 3’ away...still no find (multiple attempts)
- placed droid inches away from controller....found BLE but kept losing connection
- attempted to upload 72v firmware ... multiple buffer timeouts ... no success ...but no harm either ... existing firmware still intact
- started to assume problem was with the controllers ability to convert 72v to 12 without updated firmware (ie VESC module not receiving enough juice to operate)
- shut egg down
- Switched back to 52V battery
- fired up egg and VESC tool
- no problem connecting to BLE
- no problem updating firmware to 72V firmware
- switched back to 72V battery
- fired up egg and VESC tool
- All OK
- test ride.....even more awesome Power!!

So....is it possible that the VESC module in the controller needs the new firmware before it can properly convert the 72v to 12v? ....and that this may also affect its ability to transmit its BLE?

Just curious and wanted to share my experience....I am up and running.

[marcos]

Thanks a lot for this feedback, I really appreciate it.

Here are some notes:
* eggrider with old firmware will always show ~11V
* BLE is an independent module, you could completely erase the bbshd MCU and the BLE would still show up in the app. Maybe the dc converter is noisier at that operating point and interferes with the radio... will take a look.
* 12v converter is also done in hardware, no software involved there.
* 52v and 72v firmwares do the same, only a few parameters are change between them.

Tomorrow I'll try to reproduce this. Long ago I saw that a vesc with a fault asserted (yours might have the input overvoltage fault asserted when it was misbehaving at 72v) presented problems because some OS tasks took longer to process and the operating system was struggling to keep up. Its the only thing that comes to mind right now

72V is NICE! makes everything more efficient and the motor runs cooler. Let me know if you hit the 60A battery current limit too often, I could bump it a bit for you.

[StvMan]

Thanks Marcos.....great work......Still having PC BLE connection issues with MS Surface tablet/Windows 10. .... I have not successfully connected this device to my V2 yet. .... Does this new flash help with those issues? .... BTW...my android is connecting fine and I will use it to update firmware.

[marcos]

No, the windows problem lies between the windows version of vesc tool, the pc bluetooth driver and windows itself. The android app or the controller firmware that we updated are not connected to that issue.

[DaleH2]

Hello folks, proud new owner of the 72 volt Ludi V 2 !!!! Right off the snap I'm getting conflicting statements from Eric and the Luna sales guys. Eric says the Ludi will run on any Bafang display, while the Luna guys say I need an Eggrider. What say the group?

[marcos]

For 52V any display works.
For 72V batteries only the eggrider is fully supported. The bafang display i tested doesnt turn on when supplied with 12v and i found no way to communicate the battery level

[ncmired]

Hi - I've got a VESC/controller interface question. I've not had success connecting a Windows10 PC (via a generic Bluetooth USB plug) or via an Android10 tablet. My Andriod9 phone connection seems spotty or intermittent, so I don't want to try the software update with it.

So, I think that leaves the controller's micro-USB connection. Can I extend the controller connection out with a short pigtail, and plug it directly into the PC (and the windows VESC client hopefully will see the direct USB connection?) I assume this is the case, but am just checking.

P.S. if this was written up already and I missed it, apologies.

[ncmired]

Thanks Marcos, but no rush for now as I can't even get the direct USB to connect (either via "Autoconnect" or via the only two serial ports (COM1 and 4) that show up). I'm not seeing (or hearing) a USB to serial COM port show up on the PC when I plug in the bike either (turned on or off).

The freshly purchased & downloaded Windows client is version 3.00, and the "Autoconnect" error popup says, "Could not autoconnect. Make sure that the USB cable is plugged in (it is) and the VESC is powered (it is)". The cable is (was?) known working. The manual connect errors with, "Could not read firmware version. Make sure the connected port really belongs to the VESC".

I'm plumb out of F'ing with IT patience right now, but I'll try again tomorrow. Whatever's going on wrong with my IT setup is my problem ...

[intramorph]

Please email Tony at support@lunacycle.com I will get you the files over email. It will be a lot easier that way. Just address it to "Tony"

[ncmired]

Hey - direct USB connect success - how can that be?

I pulled the controller off, got out a bright light, looked down into the surface mount micro-USB connecter and saw nothing but contact.

So, re-using the USB cable I connected it (by itself, no external power) to my PC and ... nothing. I grabbed another USB cable ... Success! As in the familiar Windows tone notification of a new device -> port (in my case COM5), and it showing up in the Windows Computer Management -> Device Manager -> Ports list.

Fired up Windows VESC, which would not "Aurtoconnect" to the controller, but did manually (COM5). So, what the hell, with IT gods smiling today I uploaded Luna's Dire Wolf config. After a few second, 100% complete and the controller rebooted I suspect, the COM device dropped off, then back on.

P.S. now my Android/VESC phone application (via Bluetooth) connects fine, too. What's that F word Cartman say five times in a row?

[DaleH2]

Anyone have an idea on how to use the V2 with 72 volts no display? I believe it involves using a display plug and shorting the correct wires. I have no idea which wires so, help?

[ncmired]

... and another, slightly more expensive (but easier to repeat) way is to purchase the short 11" display extension cable from Luna (here https://lunacycle.com/bafang-display-extension-cable/), cut it in half, and then tie together the brown (P+) and orange (PL) wires together directly or via a micro SPST toggle switch.

[paxtana]

Yeah or just plug in a bbsxx program cable. This is all assuming this functionality is the same on the aftermarket controller, which I am not certain of.

[marcos]

Yes, shorting P+ with PL will keep the controller and display turned ON, just be careful to avoid shorting them to the other wires because the 60V into the tx/rx/gnd will likely blow an internal fuse in the controller.
The display extension cable seems promising.

[DaleH2]

Ok, call me a simp but I'm having trouble with updating my firmware on my V2. Currently all it shows is VESC_default.bin, VESC_0005ohm.bin, and VESC_default_no_limits.bin. When, on my Android phone, I attempt to install the VESC tool it says " App not installed although it clearly is.

[DaleH2]

Dang never mind, I had to uninstall the old one first. The battery options are showing up now!

[marcos]

For future reference, Dale had installed the Original VESC Tool, not the Luna Edition VESC Tool we distribute.
That original vesc tool doesn't come with the luna firmwares, and if you flash a non-luna firmware you will brick the BLE connection and will be forced to re-flash it with the correct luna firmware over USB

[ncmired]

Ok, time to ask the always dreaded "if or when" questions.

Are there any projections for if or when the otherwise just spiffy V2 controller will sprout a dedicated gear/shift sensor connector & circuit, that works like the old & crusty original controller? I.E.- not something simply wired in parallel with the brake signal on the main harness.

[marcos]

Oh I recently got a shift sensor and its cable, and the control board has a spare input that could be used for this. I just need some time to spend on testing this (I've been spending it on the app and field weakening). Most of the controllers of this batch were not potted yet so we are on time to add the cable, no need to make a new batch.

[ncmired]

Thanks Marcos! I've read a little about servo motor field weakening, enough to get the gist.

It's stunning how much power the V2 controller can wring out of the BBSHD, and I do think I'm using up less power for the equivalent conditions, though I need more miles to be sure.

PAS level 4 (out of 9) delivers more than enough steam, and wheelies my long wheelbase bike and my lardass oh so easily. I did manage to trip my battery's BMS, starting off in too high a gear (thankfully not in heavy traffic) - thankfully the battery has an external reset switch.

I'm leery about hanging my phone on the handlebars, so I've not yet seen the live data. As mentioned, I did finally get connected and updated.

Once again, well done sir!.

[marcos]

The field weakening code already passed tests on the bbshd and is now being tested on a humongous 150kW 800Amp motor, someday I'll share a video of that. Its cool to think that the very same code is running on your bike.

Level 4 puts out 66 phase Amps. My regular testing on my old short frame bike is done at 200 phase Amps, and I weigh 120lbs. You can imagine how ridiculous that is.

Thank you for the patience, we're trying hard to make it a kickass and easy to use controller, but every big and small change just takes many days.

[DaleH2]

Update: My V2 is dead, will not power up period. I had previously hooked it up to a spare BBSHD and did the firmware update, everything seemed fine. Took it off and put it on a new BBSHD and nothing. Hooked it back up to the test unit and nothing...HELP

[marcos]

Please define nothing. Does the display turn on? Can you see the VESC BUILTIN BLE [] when you scan from the app?
The first thing I would try is connecting over USB and flash the correct luna firmware. Makes me think you flashed a non-luna firmware.

[DaleH2]

Marcos, for the short time it worked it had all 3 of the Luna battery profiles, so I don't think that was it. At any rate I get no display no power and battery is at 84.4. I have already talked to Eric and he says if it's dead he'll replace it

[marcos]

Okay. Are you using an eggrider for your 72V battery? The stock bafang display won't turn on with a 72V battery. Also let us know if you attempted to short any wire

[DaleH2]

I just had it at 52 volts because I didn't want to trash a good display just for the end. As I said before, it showed the 3 available Luna battery choices after I did the bluetooth update. This was on a test motor, when I swapped it to my now daily bbshd is when it wouldn't power back up. I then tried it again on the test motor, no display no anything. So I put the V1 back on my daily, works fine. Not sure what's wrong, it's truly annoying because I never got to try it after waiting to get it. Will get an Eggrider to try on 72 volts after we get this controller issue sorted.

[marcos]

Okay, send it out. The only way I see for a non-working display is a blown small fuse in the controller.