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Luna BBSHD Ludicrous V2 controller documentation

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    #76
    I bought it from Litespeed Batteries out in New Jersey. He has a 72v triangle that is perfect for the V2 with 18ah and 180 amp continuous. Cheers.

    Comment


      #77
      Heads up!

      The last batch of BBSHD's coming from Bafang came with a wildly different motor temperature sensor. The Ludi V2 (and any aftermarket controller) will measure the motor temp incorrectly and motor overtemperature protection won't work.

      The way to check if you have a bad sensor is opening the vesc tool app and checking the motor temperature gauge. If it shows something ridiculous like 80°C when you haven't used the bike yet, well, thats a wrong sensor. It even works backwrds: the hotter the motor is, the lower temps are read. I coded support for the new sensor, but I don't know how to reliably detect which one the motor has so you have to check.

      I thought this bbshd+v2 combo didn't exist in the wild, but yesterday we got a user with a toasty motor caused by this sensor change. The banana bikes sold have these new bbshd but the nylon gear and temp sensor are upgraded at luna before shipping out.

      Comment


        #78
        marcos

        Quick question on the sensor - maybe somewhere in the thread you've already discussed how the algorithm works and apologies in advance if that's the case

        How does this work? At what setpoints do things happen?

        One reason I ask is that here in AZ the ambient air temperature gets 50+°C - we're just getting into that season with 47-48°C projected for next week and so close to the ground likely be that 50+°C... if you add solar loading with the bike parked in the sun even before turning the bike on 80°C motor temperature may not out of the question before the motor is even powered up

        I am silly enough to ride in that stuff [although don't recommend it] and it's usually no more than 4-5km although I could easily see 10km or so

        Comment


        • AZguy
          AZguy commented
          Editing a comment
          I understand 100-110°C is pushing the bounds of the recommended and perhaps even the absolute maximum ratings for some of the components however this might be a bit of an issue in the extreme heat we see out here. I don't ride frequently when it's that hot but I do get out. I'll sometimes park the bike in the morning and then leave in the worst of it and want to cover several km to get home. It's sort of scary. I always carry a least three or four liters of water when it's like that and get super hydrated before going out and usually soak my shirt down but you can't be out without shade for very long before it's literally life threatening. Always have to count on the potential for the bike failing, especially in the heat, but have never had as much as a burp doing this. I suppose if I go this route I might play with the code...

          What do you see as the components that are going to be pushing the limits in the heat? Output transistors may be top of list? Seems like magnets would have to get silly hot to reach curie point but I guess you never know. I suppose the winding's may reach a point were we risk the varnish failing.

        • marcos
          marcos commented
          Editing a comment
          The ludi v2 has mosfet temperature sensors placed in the very center of the hotspot, can't get any better and its reflected on the fact that the sensing lag is ~1 second, which allows to *maintaining* the drive at its max mosfet temperature without temperature overshoot.

          However, we're not discussing mosfet temps (which are a non-issue at any ambient temp you could have), the concern is motor temps: independent sensor, independent limiter algorithm, and with lag-induced temp overshoot.

          I don't know what exactly is the motor limit. If its made with the cheapest magnets, they could hit curie at only 120°C. If they are higher temp magnets they could survive 180°C, like the sur-ron does. The winding enamel has usually a temp rating that matches the magnet temp rating.

        • AZguy
          AZguy commented
          Editing a comment
          That's a little surprising to me - I'm not terribly familiar with the latest permanent magnet materials but was under the impression most curie points were in the hundreds of degrees and surprised to hear as low as 120-180°C... I think 120°C would be a problem out here and bet I've gotten things there for short periods.

          Sounds like the transistors are well covered. While it's a bad idea to push junction temperatures, certainly for any length of time, they do tend to be robust and handle a bit of thermal abuse as long as not continuous.

          Thanks for the insight

        #79
        Can I set an alarm when motor temp hits say 100C? The phone app displays it in tiny font.

        Comment


        • marcos
          marcos commented
          Editing a comment
          No alarms available. There is a whole gauge dedicated to motor temp so its easier to see, I think its in the current app release.

        • xcnick
          xcnick commented
          Editing a comment
          I have 3.0. Do you have a link to later one? Maybe I just can not find the right menu. Thanks

        • marcos
          marcos commented
          Editing a comment
          In the app, go to the page that has the gauges (RT DATA). When you're there, swipe up and another set of gauges show up which include motor temperature. Don't swipe up again because the app will crash, this is fixed in the next release

        #80
        Originally posted by marcos View Post
        Heads up!

        The last batch of BBSHD's coming from Bafang came with a wildly different motor temperature sensor. The Ludi V2 (and any aftermarket controller) will measure the motor temp incorrectly and motor overtemperature protection won't work.

        The way to check if you have a bad sensor is opening the vesc tool app and checking the motor temperature gauge. If it shows something ridiculous like 80°C when you haven't used the bike yet, well, thats a wrong sensor. It even works backwrds: the hotter the motor is, the lower temps are read. I coded support for the new sensor, but I don't know how to reliably detect which one the motor has so you have to check.

        I thought this bbshd+v2 combo didn't exist in the wild, but yesterday we got a user with a toasty motor caused by this sensor change. The banana bikes sold have these new bbshd but the nylon gear and temp sensor are upgraded at luna before shipping out.
        Hi marcos - would you know if the original stock controller monitored and/or reacted to the previous temperature sensor? I had the impression (over all these years) that there was no temperature monitoring in the BBSHD motor (and one could cook it at will), so am wondering if this indicates perhaps a new, maybe up and coming, stock controller behavior?

        Is Bafang renewing internal interest in the BBSHD? Who knows, maybe they don't even realize the component behavior has flipped.

        P.S. is the shift sensored V2 up, running, and available?
        BBSHD/BBS02B builds: IGH 1 2 3 4 5 6

        Comment


        • marcos
          marcos commented
          Editing a comment
          No clue about what the bafang firmware does. Their change is an improvement because now they measure at the windings, their old approach was garbage (measured air temperature instead), but it sucks that they don't tell you when changes happen. I bet their old controllers can't use this new sensor either.

          Shift sensor up and running, but IDK when will it be available.

        #81
        The directions say one can use a taller gear. When I read this, my thought was a simple: more power, taller gear. However it is far more interesting than this simplistic thought. There are more usable RPMs

        I have been running short bursts on flat ground and have gotten so lazy I don't shift any more. Single speed I can take off briskly and cruise at thirty mph.

        It doesn't groan or protest like a hub motor, but I don't know enough to recommend anything. Maybe I am hurting it? Here are two performance files. One is a gear I just feel is a bit too high, then the one I picked to just blast around on flat ground.

        What would be good gear ratios for a transmission? 800% five speed? How frigin' fast could this rig go with a tall gear? My helmet has to be around here somewhere.
        Attached Files

        Comment


          #82
          V2 Firmware…..the current firmware file (5.02 STABLE-3) is not available in the forum anymore….can you refresh its availability…..I need to re-download and reinstall….Thanks
          Last edited by StvMan; 06-15-2021, 05:54 PM.

          Comment


          • marcos
            marcos commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks for the heads up. First post updated, added download link ;-)

          #83
          You had mentioned an egg rider firmware update from Luna so we can see the voltage on the display. Is this from where available for download somewhere?

          Comment


          • marcos
            marcos commented
            Editing a comment
            The download link to the latest vesc tool luna edition should be up and running. I'm adding now a download link to the latest Eggrider firmware that I used to support >60V readings

          • xcnick
            xcnick commented
            Editing a comment
            I am still getting "basecamp in not sharing". I already deleted the previous version of Luna's version of VESC tool. Bummer.

          • marcos
            marcos commented
            Editing a comment
            Oh I fixed the firmware link but not the app link. They are both up and running now

          #84
          VESC Luna edition link which says it is no longer sharing:

          Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot (35).png Views:	0 Size:	553.3 KB ID:	130393

          It may be on my end. I got an email that StvMan sent a post, but when I click it says I am not authorized to see it. I tried refreshing the first page of the post, nothing. Can we try to post a link here?

          my VESC tool says it is 3.00
          Last edited by xcnick; 06-17-2021, 07:20 AM.

          Comment


          • StvMan
            StvMan commented
            Editing a comment
            Xcnick, I replied to your earlier post about the tool availability (link inactive), however I mistakenly commented on the firmware availability (link active). So I deleted my post rather than clarify……….Bottom line, the firmware link was reactivated by Marcos, however the VESC Tool is still inactive……So I now have the same ask you….can the moderator please reactivate the link for the LUNA VESC Tool…….Thx

          • marcos
            marcos commented
            Editing a comment
            i see the problem now... I archived some files in the server to keep tidyness for the team, I didn't know that archiving takes down the public link. I need a couple more days to sort out a huge shortage headache and I'll get back to you guys

          • StvMan
            StvMan commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks Marcos….understood…I ended up using the VESCTool from the VESC site and was able to reload the current stable LUNA firmware……my V2 is back up and running with new motor core, albeit without temp cutoff functionality…..back to using the side of the leg for temp monitoring…….anyways, your time is better spent developing this stuff……..that being said, any support you can offer is greatly appreciated…..thanks again….Steve

          #85
          Marcos,

          This is the link that is still not active.



          Click image for larger version  Name:	5BA50349-724B-4AA8-B81A-C33E18755A51.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	338.1 KB ID:	130588 .

          Comment


          • marcos
            marcos commented
            Editing a comment
            Fixed now, thanks!

          #86
          Just checking ETA on firmware update. Thanks guys.

          Comment


          • marcos
            marcos commented
            Editing a comment
            It was scheduled for a May release, fully tested by the staff and even included in the bikes sold recently... but then we ran into production issues (covid shortages) that took me a couple of weeks and we got suckerpunched by bafang when they decided to change the motor temperature sensor overnight. The bikes we sold had the temp sensor replaced at luna but standalone controllers now need to detect which sensor the motor has... I'm working on that now, StvMan found out the hard way about this temp sensor change.
            Anyway, I'm hoping for a June release if the sensor detection proves to work alright

          #87
          Yikes! Thanks for the heads up and appreciate the work you guys do!

          Comment


            #88
            Ludicrous hardware gets a new software package!
            Click image for larger version  Name:	astronaut-rides-a-unicorn-mythical-spaceman-mister-tee-transparent.png Views:	5 Size:	213.1 KB ID:	131052
            Hey guys, we're happy to announce the latest software update. The new Android app can be downloaded HERE:
            https://public.3.basecamp.com/p/ANbU...JEzacxxt1gkjQ2

            You should uninstall the previous app and then install this one. The controller firmware should also be updated using the firmware included in this new app.

            I'll update the first post soon. This release was planned for April but we found a last minute issue that took extra time to address.

            This is a MAJOR release that includes:
            * Fully revamped UI for a vastly improved usability
            * Proper Field Weakening algorithm
            * Single firmware supports all battery setups
            * Street legal, Trail and Ludicrous profiles
            * Option to have full throttle torque on all PAS levels
            * Wheel diameter setting
            * Reads last eggrider PAS level setting
            * Ruggedized PAS algorithm
            * Easier to enable datalogging
            * Motor temperature sensor detection
            * Offset calibrations
            * General vesc improvements

            For the impatient, this how the UI looks like:

            Click image for larger version  Name:	new UI.png Views:	5 Size:	40.5 KB ID:	131053Click image for larger version  Name:	new UI2.png Views:	5 Size:	49.2 KB ID:	131054

            See the documentation for this release that hopefully covers your questions, if not I'm here to help and improve the docs.

            LUNA LUDICROUS V2 - USER MANUAL

            This firmware is coming from a development non-yet-released branch of VESC that we've been working on for quite some time, we're probably the ones who provided most flight hours to the new field weakening algorithm. I think this branch will be very soon marked and released as stable by the vesc project developers, when that time comes I plan to catch up with that so we stand on fully stable code.
            There are some kinks in the UI that we'll address over time, but it would be a shame if we don't make the release now, this is already a clear improvement.

            We strongly suggest to update because recent BBSHD motor drives came with a vastly different motor temperature sensor that rendered the previous overtemp protection useless (and the v2 REALLY needs overtemp protection). The luna ludi v2 might be the only controller that can support old and new bbshd motors seamlessly.

            Alright, go have unicorn-grade fun!
            Last edited by marcos; 3 weeks ago.

            Comment


            • xcnick
              xcnick commented
              Editing a comment
              Somebody has been working their ass off. A manual? All the settings we asked for? Crack a beer, smoke a fattie, or whatever you do to relax, because we are about to use all this stuff. In a couple of days we will light up the forum, so enjoy the calm before the storm. VESC rocks!

            • marcos
              marcos commented
              Editing a comment
              lol, yes its a *lot* of work put on this and issues will show up but as long as we can fix them to improve the products we're good. I hope one day we can get the releases out over google play, I haven't mastered that part yet.

            #89
            Mr. Nolte - err, AZguy, your table awaits you:

            Originally posted by marcos View Post
            Option to have full throttle torque on all PAS levels
            Thanks for the update, Marcos!

            P.S. Looks like Nick raised his e-bike game a bit. I hope there wasn't any crash events (the knee) - probably an old football related injury:

            Last edited by ncmired; 3 weeks ago.
            BBSHD/BBS02B builds: IGH 1 2 3 4 5 6

            Comment


            • AZguy
              AZguy commented
              Editing a comment
              At least we're both out riding!

              If it were the other leg it might pass as my plastic one

            • marcos
              marcos commented
              Editing a comment
              For the night rider... I tried changing the app background color from the current very dark gray to full black, its pretty nice if you have a phone with OLED screen as every black pixel is just an off led (unlike lcd/tft/ips displays that have always-on backlighting that can't be fully blocked)

            #90
            Break time over.

            What happened to Motor Temp on the second page of RT Data?

            Click image for larger version

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            Comment


            • marcos
              marcos commented
              Editing a comment
              It will appear when you connect to the ludi, the new UI is actually stored in the controller, not in the phone ;-)
              Last edited by marcos; 3 weeks ago.
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