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Luna BBSHD Ludicrous V2 controller documentation

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    #76
    I bought it from Litespeed Batteries out in New Jersey. He has a 72v triangle that is perfect for the V2 with 18ah and 180 amp continuous. Cheers.

    Comment


      #77
      Heads up!

      The last batch of BBSHD's coming from Bafang came with a wildly different motor temperature sensor. The Ludi V2 (and any aftermarket controller) will measure the motor temp incorrectly and motor overtemperature protection won't work.

      The way to check if you have a bad sensor is opening the vesc tool app and checking the motor temperature gauge. If it shows something ridiculous like 80°C when you haven't used the bike yet, well, thats a wrong sensor. It even works backwrds: the hotter the motor is, the lower temps are read. I coded support for the new sensor, but I don't know how to reliably detect which one the motor has so you have to check.

      I thought this bbshd+v2 combo didn't exist in the wild, but yesterday we got a user with a toasty motor caused by this sensor change. The banana bikes sold have these new bbshd but the nylon gear and temp sensor are upgraded at luna before shipping out.

      Comment


        #78
        marcos

        Quick question on the sensor - maybe somewhere in the thread you've already discussed how the algorithm works and apologies in advance if that's the case

        How does this work? At what setpoints do things happen?

        One reason I ask is that here in AZ the ambient air temperature gets 50+°C - we're just getting into that season with 47-48°C projected for next week and so close to the ground likely be that 50+°C... if you add solar loading with the bike parked in the sun even before turning the bike on 80°C motor temperature may not out of the question before the motor is even powered up

        I am silly enough to ride in that stuff [although don't recommend it] and it's usually no more than 4-5km although I could easily see 10km or so

        Comment


        • AZguy
          AZguy commented
          Editing a comment
          I understand 100-110°C is pushing the bounds of the recommended and perhaps even the absolute maximum ratings for some of the components however this might be a bit of an issue in the extreme heat we see out here. I don't ride frequently when it's that hot but I do get out. I'll sometimes park the bike in the morning and then leave in the worst of it and want to cover several km to get home. It's sort of scary. I always carry a least three or four liters of water when it's like that and get super hydrated before going out and usually soak my shirt down but you can't be out without shade for very long before it's literally life threatening. Always have to count on the potential for the bike failing, especially in the heat, but have never had as much as a burp doing this. I suppose if I go this route I might play with the code...

          What do you see as the components that are going to be pushing the limits in the heat? Output transistors may be top of list? Seems like magnets would have to get silly hot to reach curie point but I guess you never know. I suppose the winding's may reach a point were we risk the varnish failing.

        • marcos
          marcos commented
          Editing a comment
          The ludi v2 has mosfet temperature sensors placed in the very center of the hotspot, can't get any better and its reflected on the fact that the sensing lag is ~1 second, which allows to *maintaining* the drive at its max mosfet temperature without temperature overshoot.

          However, we're not discussing mosfet temps (which are a non-issue at any ambient temp you could have), the concern is motor temps: independent sensor, independent limiter algorithm, and with lag-induced temp overshoot.

          I don't know what exactly is the motor limit. If its made with the cheapest magnets, they could hit curie at only 120°C. If they are higher temp magnets they could survive 180°C, like the sur-ron does. The winding enamel has usually a temp rating that matches the magnet temp rating.

        • AZguy
          AZguy commented
          Editing a comment
          That's a little surprising to me - I'm not terribly familiar with the latest permanent magnet materials but was under the impression most curie points were in the hundreds of degrees and surprised to hear as low as 120-180°C... I think 120°C would be a problem out here and bet I've gotten things there for short periods.

          Sounds like the transistors are well covered. While it's a bad idea to push junction temperatures, certainly for any length of time, they do tend to be robust and handle a bit of thermal abuse as long as not continuous.

          Thanks for the insight

        #79
        Can I set an alarm when motor temp hits say 100C? The phone app displays it in tiny font.

        Comment


        • marcos
          marcos commented
          Editing a comment
          No alarms available. There is a whole gauge dedicated to motor temp so its easier to see, I think its in the current app release.

        • xcnick
          xcnick commented
          Editing a comment
          I have 3.0. Do you have a link to later one? Maybe I just can not find the right menu. Thanks

        #80
        Originally posted by marcos View Post
        Heads up!

        The last batch of BBSHD's coming from Bafang came with a wildly different motor temperature sensor. The Ludi V2 (and any aftermarket controller) will measure the motor temp incorrectly and motor overtemperature protection won't work.

        The way to check if you have a bad sensor is opening the vesc tool app and checking the motor temperature gauge. If it shows something ridiculous like 80°C when you haven't used the bike yet, well, thats a wrong sensor. It even works backwrds: the hotter the motor is, the lower temps are read. I coded support for the new sensor, but I don't know how to reliably detect which one the motor has so you have to check.

        I thought this bbshd+v2 combo didn't exist in the wild, but yesterday we got a user with a toasty motor caused by this sensor change. The banana bikes sold have these new bbshd but the nylon gear and temp sensor are upgraded at luna before shipping out.
        Hi marcos - would you know if the original stock controller monitored and/or reacted to the previous temperature sensor? I had the impression (over all these years) that there was no temperature monitoring in the BBSHD motor (and one could cook it at will), so am wondering if this indicates perhaps a new, maybe up and coming, stock controller behavior?

        Is Bafang renewing internal interest in the BBSHD? Who knows, maybe they don't even realize the component behavior has flipped.

        P.S. is the shift sensored V2 up, running, and available?
        BBSHD/BBS02B builds: IGH 1 2 3 4 5 6

        Comment


        • marcos
          marcos commented
          Editing a comment
          No clue about what the bafang firmware does. Their change is an improvement because now they measure at the windings, their old approach was garbage (measured air temperature instead), but it sucks that they don't tell you when changes happen. I bet their old controllers can't use this new sensor either.

          Shift sensor up and running, but IDK when will it be available.

        #81
        The directions say one can use a taller gear. When I read this, my thought was a simple: more power, taller gear. However it is far more interesting than this simplistic thought. There are more usable RPMs

        I have been running short bursts on flat ground and have gotten so lazy I don't shift any more. Single speed I can take off briskly and cruise at thirty mph.

        It doesn't groan or protest like a hub motor, but I don't know enough to recommend anything. Maybe I am hurting it? Here are two performance files. One is a gear I just feel is a bit too high, then the one I picked to just blast around on flat ground.

        What would be good gear ratios for a transmission? 800% five speed? How frigin' fast could this rig go with a tall gear? My helmet has to be around here somewhere.
        Attached Files

        Comment


          #82
          V2 Firmware…..the current firmware file (5.02 STABLE-3) is not available in the forum anymore….can you refresh its availability…..I need to re-download and reinstall….Thanks
          Last edited by StvMan; 3 days ago.

          Comment


          • marcos
            marcos commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks for the heads up. First post updated, added download link ;-)

          #83
          You had mentioned an egg rider firmware update from Luna so we can see the voltage on the display. Is this from where available for download somewhere?

          Comment


          • marcos
            marcos commented
            Editing a comment
            I was chatting with the eggrider developer today about this, I was testing their soon-to-be-public release that includes the voltage mod. Eggrider didn't relase that firmware yet but I can PM you the firmware if you have a 72V setup

          • xcnick
            xcnick commented
            Editing a comment
            Great, send me a PM with attachment if it is not buggy.

            On another note, I am still looking for the latest VESC Luna Edition, which has the motor temperature displayed big enough I can see it. In the first post of this thread, the link to VESC Luna edition still says “not sharing any more”.

          #84
          VESC Luna edition link which says it is no longer sharing:

          Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot (35).png Views:	0 Size:	553.3 KB ID:	130393

          It may be on my end. I got an email that StvMan sent a post, but when I click it says I am not authorized to see it. I tried refreshing the first page of the post, nothing. Can we try to post a link here?

          my VESC tool says it is 3.00
          Last edited by xcnick; 2 days ago.

          Comment


          • StvMan
            StvMan commented
            Editing a comment
            Xcnick, I replied to your earlier post about the tool availability (link inactive), however I mistakenly commented on the firmware availability (link active). So I deleted my post rather than clarify……….Bottom line, the firmware link was reactivated by Marcos, however the VESC Tool is still inactive……So I now have the same ask you….can the moderator please reactivate the link for the LUNA VESC Tool…….Thx

          • marcos
            marcos commented
            Editing a comment
            i see the problem now... I archived some files in the server to keep tidyness for the team, I didn't know that archiving takes down the public link. I need a couple more days to sort out a huge shortage headache and I'll get back to you guys

          • StvMan
            StvMan commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks Marcos….understood…I ended up using the VESCTool from the VESC site and was able to reload the current stable LUNA firmware……my V2 is back up and running with new motor core, albeit without temp cutoff functionality…..back to using the side of the leg for temp monitoring…….anyways, your time is better spent developing this stuff……..that being said, any support you can offer is greatly appreciated…..thanks again….Steve
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