Luna BBSHD Ludicrous V2 controller documentation

[xcnick]

Dumb question number 2. I tell it I have a 72V battery, then click write. Clicking read confirms the order for 72V has been taken. Upon startup I don't get the overvoltage message. However the battery gauge is pegged at 100% even though the battery is only half full.



When I started, it read correctly, so I must have messed up something.

[xcnick]

I just noticed when the guage was correct the heading was the old RT Data, not the new Ride. I don't remember when they changed, but maybe that helps.

[marcos]

Ok, its fixed now, the UI needed some extra lines of code. Before uploading the change I'll try to also show battery voltage at least as a number because I know that the SOC is not very accurate, it changes a lot when voltage sags. In the next coding rampage I wanted to make a fancier gauge cluster, but until then lets patch this one up

[xcnick]

Excellent idea to add the number. Although I try to peddle as little as possible, I am always coming home with a low battery. I watch that number religiously as it sags. If PAS 3 is sagging the battery close to the cut off, I go down to 2. Tripping the battery BMS is epic fail.

[BUD WHITE]

I am in the process of uploading this new VESC APP right now. I am always sweating bullets when I do these kinds of upgrades due to thinking the bike won't work any more...:)

[marcos]

just make sure the display doesn't shut down the controller while its updating ;)

[BUD WHITE]

I keep uploading the new firmware, but nothing changes. I do not have the new screens or BIKE cfg. Should I press UPLOAD ALL?

[BUD WHITE]

So I have uploaded what is offered numerous times, and nothing is changing. The Eggrider reboots and then the VESC tool app is not upgraded at all. I deleted old VESC and installed new Luna VESC to begin with. At my wits end here. After uploads, I show FW 5.03, but still no new layout. EDIT: I noticed as soon as the upload is completed, the Eggrider disconnects from the app. Is this normal? Also, still no change.

[BUD WHITE]

Here is what the new Luna VESC tool app shows...

[marcos]

You need to update the app, and with the new app update the firmware

[marcos]

Sorry, l didnt see you tried fladhing it. Will take a closer look asap

[marcos]

The best idea I had so far is trying to reflash the bootloader. I have no clue how it could be non-working but I guess its worth a shot:
1. Connect
2. Go to firmware tab
3. Swipe down 2 times to the bootloader update page
4. Update button will flash the generic bootloader. Its much smaller than the full firmware so the transfer is really quick.
5. Attempt a firmware update using the included bbshd default bin.

[xcnick]

Pairing, the only thing I have learned is not to touch it. Is this the number I need if I get into this mess?

[ncmired]

I think it's a straight decimal number, not one of those 6-pair hex "MAC"-looking numbers. It may be the one at the bottom of your firmware tab.

[marcos]

Its a lengthy number, looks like this:


The list of paired UUID is shown when you tap the "PAIR" button

Still chasing BUD WHITE's issue, I only saw something like that the time I forgot to flash the bootloader, I need to check a couple of things around bootloader stuff

[BUD WHITE]

Hello Marcos and thank you for those directions, unfortunately that didn't do anything either. I am going back to the older VESC tool app for the time being. I will keep checking in from time to time. Cheers.

[BUD WHITE]

I just tried the latest directions you gave me, and now everything is updated correctly! Thank you so much. This is far easier to program and I like the 3 different choices for profiles. I believe this update in firmware makes it super easy to change from 52v to 72v? Cheers and what a great job you are doing with this ever improving controller.

[marcos]

Awesome! I'm adding that to the troubleshooting table then. Yes 52V <-> 72V is now configured from the app, no need to re-flash firmwares which is great.

[marcos]

FYI I just uploaded a new apk with new firmware that
* fixes the battery % gauge for 72V systems
* adds a small indicator of battery voltage and current to the RIDE page (you probably use your eggrider/bafang diplay for this anyway)
* motor temperature gauge goes to orange >85°C and to red at >100°C.

Pretty minor improvements for those running 52V but I figured I should mention them anyways. The apk is downloaded from the same link here

[xcnick]

When I click the egg rider link, it says the link has no power here. weird.

[StvMan]

I get the same “link has no power here” (basically, web link not found) for the EggRider link on page 4.

[marcos]

ha I didn't know those links dissappear when new versions are created. I just edited the doc to point to the generic download section, we need the 2.58 beta or later, someday that beta will become the stable.

[xcnick]

Can you help me work some settings to get acceleration from dead stop more like the V1 Ludi?

Starting on a steep hill can be so demanding that the power shuts off. (no error code) The V1 did this too, but not as often. Perhaps I need to actually lower the power setting? I tried a less linear throttle as well, but that got away from me quickly.

Attached is a log where I start on a steep hill and it shuts down after a small jump forward. Perhaps you can see what is shutting me down, battery? Trail setting except power up to 4000.

[marcos]

That log leads me to think that a zero RPM it struggles to detect the rotor position, which is pretty typical with hall sensored motors, it has to guess what is happening between hall sensor pulses although I didn't experience it myself on a bbshd



It think so because of the negative RPM peaks, which shouldn't happen at all. When the angle observer freaks out you can see some random RPM. This is exactly why a drive unit with a magnetic encoder is so great, you always know the exact angle, no guesswork needed.

The solution for this is (in order of practicality):
* Lower mechanical load (start with a lower gear)
* Better motor parameters tuning
* High Frequency Injection <- this is the ultimate solution

So one thing you can do is use a lower gear, I do have planned to work on tuning HFI for this motor, it wasn't high priority because there was only one documented case of angle observer freaking out with a big guy using high gears... but since this happened again I'll put it back in the TODO.

What HFI does is injecting a high frequency current and measure back the motor voltages and currents. From that data and a *ton* of math you can calculate the motor angle. At zero RPM you get zero hall sensor pulses so you're clueless, meanwhile with HFI you always know the motor position which would solve any rotor angle issue at low speed.

[marcos]

HFI is coded, I just need to tune it for the bbshd motor, you can see the math here but its hard to follow https://github.com/vedderb/bldc/blob...wm_foc.c#L2988

Users don't get to change the motor parameters because its too easy to damage the controller with a bad parameter.

I'm not sure about throttle response change, the new field weakening does change the behavior a bit but it could also be the 200+ contributions that VESC has received between v5.02 and v5.03

I'll take a look at the quipte thing ha

[xcnick]

The throttle is better I think. One reason I was rolling back was there was nothing for the first quarter turn. Now it comes on earlier. Options for the old controller included throttle tied to current or speed. In the dirt we liked current. PAS is still the greatest ever! (I use Luna's twist throttle)

[marcos]

there was a 15% deadband on the throttle input that I reduced to 5%, over time I would like to reduce it to 1% but I need to learn if the throttle tolerances are tight across bafang batches.
Speed control makes no sense to me, it won't be supported on this controller

[BUD WHITE]

Okay, I have been riding with the new firmware in the Ludicrous setting, and everything is tuned so much smoother than what I had come up with on the last firmware. I enjoy the bionic feeling of PAS and only hit the throttle to blast past some distracted/dangerous "obstacle". The simplicity of the settings now is so much fun. I can not be more happy at this time with your programming. Made my last day of holiday a true treat. Cheers. EDIT: here were my PAS and throttle settings on the last firmware...

[marcos]

Awesome! The improvements happened mostly "under the hood", in the low level motor control part. The PAS and throttle apps are higher level and were left pretty much the same

[xcnick]

I seem to remember there was a power level setting (1 through 9) in the oldest firmware? Can we add this option?

Just another voice about how good the PAS is. This is revolutionary!

[marcos]

my friend has a couple of 150kW VESC for his honda CRX conversion, he certainly plans to have a proper instrument cluster using a tablet.
On that note I want to order a quadlock mount, it looks solid enough to make the phone-based instrument cluster possible for my bike or surron

[xcnick]

I went to quadlock website and can't figure out what goes on the phone itself. Here is my best phone holder so far. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GWNFPZR It bounces around less than the others I bought.

[BUD WHITE]

That is one very in shape dog and a monster of an electric bike build you have there. Thanks for sharing. Cheers.

[brokejaw]

Hi guys i bought this off of someone from Facebook Marketplace, is there still some issues/bugs I need to be aware of? I 'm doing a fresh new motor install with this controller and an EggRider.

Any tips / etc would be appreciated. Thank you

[marcos]

If its not yet installed in the motor I would update it to the latest firmware (see the online manual) over USB, its like 100x faster than bluetooth and there is no chance of losing power during the update.

[brokejaw]

Thanks marcos other than that anyone experiencing any issues I should be aware of, i'm a newbie at this.

[brokejaw]

ncmired what are you talking about?

no, a different bike, i bought a 2021 Giant Talon 2

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/talon-2-2021

right now all i'm asking if I should expect any issues with the controller that I need to be aware of with either a 52v or 72v battery and eggrider display..

[xcnick]

Can the Ludi V2 run on 36 volts?

Please tell me I am crazy. I have a feeling lower voltage will give me more range at low power settings. The little math I can do says I am crazy, volts time amps equal power, so power is power, no matter how you get there.

If my feeling is right, I could run two 36volt batteries in parallel until I get to where I want to go, then switch to series for the wide open and shifting gears kind of riding.

(don't tell anyone, but 90% of my riding is at 7mph, the speed my dogs trot.)

[AZguy]

I think you are crazy ;-}

However regarding the lower voltage there's likely not much reason that it would help efficiency - to get the same power needs more amperage and that means more copper loss in everything, motor *and* wiring. I suppose it's possible that at really low powers there's some of switching efficiencies that might get involved


BTW met an ex hang guy here in town that spent a fair bit of time in your area and did some flying in the 80's or so... name is Don (don't know the last name, shoulda asked) had some familiarity with sailplanes and other aircraft too

[marcos]

The ludi and eggrider can run on 36V. Not sure if the bafang displays trip an undervoltage there.

Other than lower iron losses I don't see much benefit from re-arranging the battery, me personally I wouldn't bother.