Luna BBSHD Ludicrous V2 controller documentation

[xcnick]

Crap, just answering AZguy, but I want a picture.

Thanks. How embarrassing that I am even thinking about range.

Even after twenty years in sailplanes I will always be considered a hang driver. There are some awards for accomplishments in soaring. This is very obscure, see if he knows what this is.

[AZguy]

Diamond badge and 750km xc - very impressive... never chased badges, I don't think I was ever able to shake the informality of the dangle divers even though I started with SEL and glider before getting sucked into that world

I've done the diamond altitude in both divers and sailplanes, but never did the big long xc's - too much logistics for the divers and you should have your own rig for the sailplane... I had one for a short time but never did an "real" xc with it

Very cool - the diamond badge is top of the line!

[xcnick]

OK, now I have a feeling I can get better range with high voltage. Tell me I am crazy.

Not a test bed, me. I ride until I am scared I don't have enough juice to get home. Coming home I try to control my throttle hand so voltage drops don't hit the bottom and trigger a shut down.

My assumption, or feeling, is at the end there is less voltage drop in the 72 volt battery for the same amount of power, therefor I can use more of the bottom end of the battery?

I did the diamond in a Schweizer 1-34 twenty years ago. 500k took seven and half hours. The 1-34 has the performance of the Olympia of 1938, the last glider my mother ever got to fly. She was famous for the being the first British woman to earn a silver badge, 1936. My diamond badge thing allowed me to work out some mommy issues. Read all about her in the book: Naomi the Aviatrix. <<Spam alert>>

Of course mental illness belongs in bicycles as well. My restored Raleigh with British white fender at the Open Class Nationals. (Dynamo for the lights, electric enough to almost on topic.)

[AZguy]

Nice line-up

The 1-34 isn't all that bad - sure beats the 1-26 and 1-36 they have at my local place (az soaring). Their high performance rental is a genesis 2 and they also have a PW-5.

The big xc flying around here is mostly down at El Tiro (Tucson soaring club)... those guys set records...

[xcnick]

Tuscon is second in the USA weekend competition using a Strava like computer program. Tenth in world. Bragging rights is as much our weather vs. theirs as it is pilot vs. pilot. I hear you having overdevelopment with rain and lightning. Too bad for you. Minden is even crushing the Eurotrash in the world comp.

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/league.html?st=olc-league&r=total&ltp=first&rt=olc&c=C0&sc=11&sp=2021

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/league.html?st=olc-league&r=total&ltp=first&rt=olc&c=US&sc=11&sp=2

[AZguy]

There's been some OD'ing but mostly just late in the day/evening and az soaring (Estrella) has been only benefiting from the monsoon right now... it's supposed to get worse middle of the week though

I've got a buddy that I was soaring with back in '95 that moved on to the big boys and flying a global express these days (chauffeur for the rich and famous) - last year he got based out here so we've been back down at Estrella a couple of times

El Tiro doesn't have the huge mountains you have there, just a lot of really good thermal activity... and from what I understand you all get the crazy winter wave... winter wave happens here in AZ but it's not so often or dependable at all. I started out at Warner Springs in the 80's and we'd get some good winter wave out there - 20-25K wasn't unheard of... I actually used to work wave conditions in the diver back in the day too... nothing really high, but fun for wintertime flying for sure - most the hang guys didn't really understand it...

[marcos]

Battery current is *estimated* by the controller so its not super accurate, but you could compare the Amp.hr, Wh and Wh/km efficiency from your logs to see what works better for you.

The stats are calculated from the selected part of your trip, shown in the map

[xcnick]

Great fun. I can do the same boring ride in both 52volt and 72volt and compare!

[marcos]

Yup, look at the GPS-based efficiency ("Efficiency GNSS") and avoid hard accelerations as your phone gps won't track the speed changes well.

[adamlivi]

Marcos. Really liking the new firmware. Set throttle and pas ramp up to 3 seconds for locomotive snd butter smooth power which is import on a 3 speed IGH and belt drive. I love this setup.

https://www.electricbike.com/adams-black-panther-with-bbshd-ludicrous-v2-3-speed-and-gates-drive/

Well done.

possible to put release date in version notes of updates?

[marcos]

I purposely coded the throttle response slider with a 3 second maximum because I remember you used that setting. If you really need a 3 second ramp on the pedal assist let me know and I can add it in the next release (by default the ramp is 1.25 sec)

Release date is a good idea, will try to make it happen. Vesc version numbers are a bit limited, its just X.XX and for this fast paced development I would like X.XX.XXXX

[Mike Eatough]

Where can I download the appropriate VESC tool for a V2 controller, the link on this forum is not working?

[marcos]

Hi Mike, go to post #96 in this thread, the link and user manual are there. I'll try to get the post #1 updated today

[Mike Eatough]

Marcos,
thank you, I got it downloaded OK now

[brokejaw]

Hey guys, anyone having any issues with a 72v and Eggrider display? I heard 72v doesn't work too well with V2 Controller.

asking because some guy wants to sell me his.

[marcos]

I havent heard of any problem, just make sure the eggrider has the beta firmware so it displays battery voltage correctly. More info in the ludi user manual

[MIKEinNC]

Hi Marcos,
I just ordered my V2, and have some questions while I’m waiting for it to arrive:
1) Should I expect it to have the latest firmware loaded when it arrives, or should I plan an update to be one of my first actions?
2) I believe that the latest firmware allows quickly switching between 52v and 72v, correct?
3) Is PAS functional at 72v? (I understand the cadence and gear selection issues 72v creates.)
4) I have an ASI BAC 800, from ERT, that I’d been running at 72v, so I have their 750c display, which Alan modified to run 72v. Can I use that display with the V2, if I want to try it at 72v ? I’ll understand if you’re unfamiliar with that product, and don’t wish to comment on that question, but the 750c is my favorite display, it’s also what I run on my 52v bikes, and I’d love to be able to use it at 72v, with the V2.
I’ve been reading this thread, and I’m extremely impressed by the level of support I’m seeing.
It seems exceptional, even for Luna, which is generally excellent, and worlds beyond ASI or ERT.
Thanks,
Mike

[adamlivi]

Welcome to the V2 club. I'll leave the answers to your questions to Marcos, only to say that if the 750c does not work out, the Eggrider works very well.

[marcos]

Hi Mike, lets see if I can help:
1) It should have the latest firmware but it doesn't hurt to have the latest app installed on your phone, power the controller over USB and update the firmware, just in case. I know luna staff is super busy at times and I'm not physically there to help
2) Yes, its pretty straightforward
3) Yes, nothing really changes at 72V other than batt voltage and batt current limits
4) If their 750c uses the same bafang protocol and can be supplied with 12V, it should work. I guess his modification involves changing the undervoltage shutdown so its stays on at 12v
Let us know how it went. Cheers

[MIKEinNC]

Thanks Adam, that will be my “plan B”.

[MIKEinNC]

Thanks Marcos,
I’m quite sure that they used the Bafang protocol, because they specified that you could run the controller at 52v with an unmodified display, and only needed the modified display if you wanted to run 72v.
I will keep you posted, and thanks again.

[xcnick]

Hi Marcos, hope all is well. Paxtana, where are you?.

What can you tell me about line 22 of the log analysis? I remember it had a cool name like nitrous induced supercharging.

I am running single speed with a low gear (30 gear inches). The V2's extra RPMs take the top speed from 15mph to 25mph. From 15 to 25 mph, line 22 shows more and more negative numbers. (72v)

What are the dangers of this extra RPM?

I don't think I have been up there for more than 5 seconds, but this makes a single speed much more livable.

(gears are back in stock, and I ordered another V2)

thanks

[marcos]

What can you tell me about line 22 of the log analysis? I remember it had a cool name like nitrous induced supercharging.

Oh well... you don't want to hear all I can tell about the id current. If you have like 10 hours of your life to spare this crash course in motor control sheds light on many motor drive aspects that are currently being handled by the V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpTvZlnrsP0

A few notes about id current, commonly referred as Field Weakening current (or line 22 in the logs):
* In Field Oriented Control, iq current produces mechanical torque, id current "produces" magnetic field. Your throttle controls iq current.
* id is a real, heat-producing current, the ludi can drive id=-30A. If its sustained over time it produces I²R losses in the windings (while not producing any torque). In the V2 we limited for now the phase current to 150A, this means that id²+iq² < (150A)², but such a high current doesn't last long until thermal throttling or other limits kick in.
* It is called Field Weakening because it (sort of) weakens the magnetic field produced by the motor magnets. Lower field produces lower BEMF voltage, thus increasing the maximum speed of the machine. In theory you can reach infinite speed with a certain amount of id current. In case of the BBSHD its at id = -190A, also called short circuit current.
* My main concern about Field Weakening is that if the motor is spinning too fast and the controller faults, id suddenly collapses, the magnetic field is immediately restored and the motor generates a voltage that can be higher than what the mosfets are rated for. This stress kills a mosfet instantly, and they typically fail shorted, ie its a big bang. For this reason the Ludi v2 is rpm-limited such that a fault at max speed can't threaten the powerstage. Its still very fast, equivalent of running a 95V battery without field weakening.


I would say riding deep into field weakening produces a thermal stress equivalent to riding a stock controller uphill at mid-full torque because its about the same phase current flowing. Its not like the motor will melt instantly, its just running hotter and hotter at lower efficiency.

Me personally, I like to make good use of the field weakening region and I'm not scared of using it. For reference any tesla car would enter field weakening at about 50-60mph.

I contributed the field weakening code a while ago: https://hackaday.io/project/164932-a...kening-support
over time it was simplified, and the ludi V2 is running this simpler field weakening algorithm.

[xcnick]

Thank you so much. The video helps me understand why you always sound frustrated when the only thing I ask is that you make the shaft go round and round. I am just a consumer who wants to run single speed. The fact you overshare actually works really well. I ordered another V2, a couple of motor gears and am now sorting through the stuff I have been saving for the last year. The single speed fat bike shall live. And not some barely chubby four inch, but a real five inch.

[AZguy]

What are the present options for a gear sensor?

[marcos]

You can connect a gearsensor to one of the 2 brake inputs. The physical connector is the same. Controllers with a 3rd brake/gearsensor cable I think have not been built because they are installed on banana bikes that don't use a gear sensor.

[AZguy]

Got it - I don't use the brake sensors anyway, don't like them but the gear sensor is a must have for me!

Cool, getting closer =]

[Dlew]

Hi - I just finished installing the V2. I can't get the controller to show up in the in Luna/VESC app. The Luna display is powered on, motor is working, etc. Other BLE's show up so I know bluetooth is working on the phone (Samsung Galaxy s7). Is there anything you can think of that I am missing in the set-up?

[marcos]

hum, my only ideas are checking if the bluetooth antenna is in good shape, its a thin gray wire coming out of the controller, with a transparent tip about 1.2inch long. Usually a damaged antenna still works at very close range (couple inches).
Another possibility is if someone forgot to program the bluetooth module before the potting process. This programming is done with vesc tool for desktop over usb, only takes 5 clicks and I can PM the step by step instrctions, I'm aware that pulling the controller out is a hassle though
And finally I didn't test on a samsung S7... but I use an S8 daily and works just fine so I don't think that's the problem.

[Dlew]

hi- the antenna looks fine (about 2 inches visible). i've taken the bike on a couple of rides and the controller seems to be working properly. given this, could it still be a "factory" programming issue or should i follow the steps you outlined to marco to get the BLE connection. thanks for your help.

[Dlew]

Update: I downloaded the windows software and followed the USB connection steps in the PDF link you provided. The V2 BLE is now visible and everything is working.

[choochoo]

I'm having the same issue.

I am a new V2 user. I have a 72V battery so I'm dead until I can change the settings in the Android app. I just purchased a BLUE V5 phone to program the V2 (I'm normally an iPhone user).

The V2 does not show up in bluetooth. The phone finds all other Bluetooth devices, but never the V2. I even took the equipment to the woods so there were no other Bluetooth devices around. It finds my bluetooth BMS and EggRider, but no V2.

The antenna looks fine.

If Luna forgot to program it how can I do it myself?