Luna M600 Ludicrous V2 controller documentation

[rtp]

Controller temp is a non-issue. See a typical motor vs controller temp during stress testing:

Perfect, thanks! Is that a Bafang motor? If not - it is a combined motor/controller type of system?

Down the road we could increase the motor temp allowance, I tested these motors at 150°C for a pretty long time but I want to be on the safe side for now, peek gears don't like to be that hot and the motor cover reaches 120°C which I personally don't mind but could be worrisome for users.

Maybe you should delete this statement... Luna support cases for melted PEEK gears to come... :(
Both good points - 120*C on the cover would make for a relatively bad day with someone's calves... Do you know what the controller cover reaches in comparison?
Seems like from prior statement and chart, it's not really worth potting or additional heat sinks on the controller side of things?
(Note - this is being asked from a reliability/longevity perspective - you saw the log I was able to send you and I run mostly in PAS 2/3 of 9 so am looking for reliability/longevity > bleeding edge etc..)

Um, I think that error table doesn't match the table I have been using. As long as vesc can identify the fault source it's easy to change the number the display shows.

I'm assuming you mean the Bafang one? The other is direct from the LudiV2 current doc. Source of the first is from the 'short-lived but spirited' exchange on ES, in the OpenSourceEBike GitHub repo, here: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600

I checked the dealer manual which amusingly has bunches of PNs but not for cables or internal motor breakdown and PN diagram, and also doesn't have the error codes in it. Is there a better one for reference?

No, you can flow 1000 Amps through a motor phase while only drawing 10Amps from the battery.

When the BMS trips, the whole system shuts down including the display, so you don't really get any error code. Disconnecting the battery at ful load will likely produce an overvoltage event, not sure if it has time to log it though.

Got it, no power = no power, and not able to comm directly to the current BMS so no codes. Thanks!

[rtp]

And...some more Qs:
1. Can you add the default settings for the profiles into the v2 doc? This would be good for e.g. 'setting back to normal' especially as the swipe across screen behavior makes it very easy to nudge a slider etc.

2. There is some relationship seemingly between Throttle Amps and PAS Amps, in that if you lower Throttle Amps, it seems to reduce the max value of PAS Amps - bug, something else?

3. RPM settings - this is kind of interesting. All I can find around RPM is rated crank rotating speed in the dealer manual of 115 +/- 6, and a gear reduction ration of ~6.25 or so for one of the internal reduction gears, but nothing on motor RPM rating - what does the OE controller max out at, and is there any 'official' motor spec on max RPM, or it's purely anecdotal from experience? What is the (if known) 'never exceed' value etc. ?

[marcos]

Perfect, thanks! Is that a Bafang motor? If not - it is a combined motor/controller type of system?

That was an X2 bike with ludi v2

Maybe you should delete this statement... Luna support cases for melted PEEK gears to come... :(

I have reasons to think there is some headroom :)

1. Can you add the default settings for the profiles into the v2 doc? This would be good for e.g. 'setting back to normal' especially as the swipe across screen behavior makes it very easy to nudge a slider etc.

I think I should

2. There is some relationship seemingly between Throttle Amps and PAS Amps, in that if you lower Throttle Amps, it seems to reduce the max value of PAS Amps - bug, something else?

PAS Amps is actually a % of the throttle Amps. Or put in another way, PAS current can't be higher than throttle current. For no particular reason I chose to change the PAS max as a function of throttle max... but I could leave both at 100A max and just put a limit on the PAS slider so it doesn t go higher than the throttle setting.

3. RPM settings - this is kind of interesting. All I can find around RPM is rated crank rotating speed in the dealer manual of 115 +/- 6, and a gear reduction ration of ~6.25 or so for one of the internal reduction gears, but nothing on motor RPM rating - what does the OE controller max out at, and is there any 'official' motor spec on max RPM, or it's purely anecdotal from experience? What is the (if known) 'never exceed' value etc. ?

The motor wont damage from high RPM, it will never go beyond 7000 rpm (~200 crank rpm). Its mostly limited by voltage.

[marcos]

Hi Larry, no, bafang controllers are black boxes, we don't know how they work and they use different (10x cheaper) processors so they can't run the ludi V2 firmware.

[LarryMagoo]

Well Marcos...I'm sorry to read that...It works pretty good now especially with my Twist throttle ala motorcycle style....but it sure would be neat to have like what you have developed for the ludi V2 firmware. If that situation ever changes please let all of us Apollo owners know...I'm sure all would be interested!!

[Cam]

Did you end up posting the default settings anywhere. I can find them for some reason. Thanks

[rnyabeoo]

Any update on the odometer fix for the Ludi V2 X2?

[marcos]

Any update on the odometer fix for the Ludi V2 X2?

The dang thing took a ton of time and a pile of fancy instruments to get it reverse engineered. Today I think I got fully working. Will be included in the next release!

[marcos]

Okay, I just changed the default to 10min, I think its better that way. Glad you're enjoying the bike!

[rnyabeoo]

That's great, Marcos! Any idea when this new software update and the associated fixes will be released?

[marcos]

Upon closer look the odometer was not working that well, if I get that fixed this week, the release should happen in 3-4 weeks. I'm not sure what will take to fix the last odometer issue though.

[Cornhusker]

Went for the initial test ride today on my X2 Ludi V2. The bike feels really impressive in the highest pedal assist mode but the throttle seems off. Using the throttle there is a nice initial hit off the bottom then it falls super flat immediately. Holding the throttle wide open and looking at the wattage on the dash it's only showing maybe 250 watts. Am I missing something here? On my BBSHD when the throttle is held wide open it shows 1500 watts. I've tried playing with the throttle on all PAS modes and can't seem to get it above 250 watts.

[carlb4u]

try going on app ,make sure its in ludicrous mode(press read button on bottom)If not press write button on app to get in ludicrous mode

[rtp]

Read the manual, app link is in the controller docs (first post in thread) - only get the app from the Luna link, not the Play store (not yet compatible).
You can change settings across 'Street Legal,' Trail and Ludi modes, then the pas levels on the display act off of those as max values...

Note the X2 isn't really a 'ride by throttle' bike - an Ultra/M620 is more heat tolerant than the M600 is...but it's a great overall setup and bike, and the controller is great vs Bafang M600s..

[marcos]

Yeah if you could get some logs it would be easier to pinpoint. Sounds like thermal cutoff or a street legal profile like rtp said but logs will show what is happening

[Chris Huntze]

Hello Marcos,

I just got a new Luna X-2 Ludi. Tony sent me here with some questions about the display and VESC tool app. (using android,,, not using laptop)


I have the DP C24X display,,, I cannot get it into settings mode... I hold the up and down buttons,,
then on screen comes to

Settings
Information
Exit

but when I let off the buttons,,, the screen shuts down... I am not sure if the display is not working.... or this does not work with the Ludi option.??

High Temp Shut down??
I was wondering what the temp is for the high temp shut down,,, just so I can avoid that... So far I have not heated the motor past 47 degrees C.
My phone has been keeping good connection on the handlebar while I ride,, so I can monitor temp.


RPM adjustable?
In VESC Tuning on phone, I was moving the RPM bar in Street Legal mode, and it did not make a max RPM change,,, is that normal??
I had the bike in the air and used throttle to compare max RPM.

Walk Mode?
Tony relayed that Walk Mode does not work on Ludi model,,,

Boost?
and I am assuming "boost" mode is not needed because I read that the Ludi does not have a top speed limit,,, is that correct.??


Power settings
I have not tried these yet,, but in tuning,,, will the power settings make a change in the 3 modes,,, Street Legal, Trail,,, Ludicrous ??



Thanks for you help,, ,just trying to learn all the features that are in the Ludi model.

Chris H

[marcos]

About the display settings mode, I'd recommend wait for the next version in case it fixes it, it is working but I don't remember exactly when the fix was released. If it doesn't ping me again. I had to change a threshold to make it work. Maybe holding the buttons for a shorter time.
What are you looking for in the settings mode?

Motor is allowed to reach 120°C, controller is allowed to reach 95°C. Soft-cutoff starts 15°C before the limit. If the limit exceeded a fault is asserted.

I can take a look at the RPM limit, but I'm tempted to delete the whole slider as the motor is more efficient at higher rpm and limiting it doesn't make much sense.

No walk mode, no boost mode.

Each of the 3 profiles has its own Power limit. On the Bike CFG tab, when you set a battery current limit it is applied to all profiles

Cheers

[Chris Huntze]

Hello Thanks for answers.

You asked me what was I looking to do in Settings for the display... I was just checking functions to see if it worked as a new bike check out. I was trying to reset the Trip and Max speed.. there were values in there when new.... I know trip and ODO don't work. . And,,, just wanted to make sure wheel size setting was correct and play with panel brightness. I will wait for update to see if that allows me to get into the settings mode.

Thanks again for the Temp settings... Now I know what to look for to avoid over heat Soft-cutoff.

Chris

[rtp]

Does anyone happen to have any info on the pinout and signals from the DP C240 B/W keypad?

Not looking to replace the display as it’s fine ((and IMO most other Bafang displays kind of suck sitting way over the bars..), but the goofy shape of the keypad is annoying, especially as I continue to work on control layout but also in general ;) Unlike some, I kind of dig the small B/W display - it could be a bit bigger, but it tucks nicely out of the way, but that power/mode control is just .... 'not borne of rational thought by a rider' IMO. Would love to replace it with something less prone to getting ripped off the bars, something like this ideally, but not sure if the keypad itself is actually ‘smart’/sending CAN commands or is simple gnd/5v etc. Anyone looked into this before?

https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/ca-accessories/ca3-daux-slim.html

[naynay]

I was messing with this the other day. It’s just a a few switches and a vibration motor. Nothing fancy.

Purple - Common for switches
Black - Power Button
Green - Minus Button
Red - Plus Button
White - Motor
Orange - Motor

I didn’t have to dig any further so I don’t know the color to PIN number on the Higo connector.

[rtp]

Thanks. Anything special on the signal or are they documented anywhere, e.g. for press + = N V, down, is power on just passing 5V through, etc. ?
Don't remotely care about the vibration function, just want a better/more bar-hugging control pad.

[carlb4u]

Getting ready to flash to lasted firmware for first time have read instructions and watched video,My concern is that the 5 minute auto shut off will happen before flashed and will have a problem :)
should I be worried about this??
thanks for the help

[marcos]

the auto shutdown is only a concern on BBSHD drives (the display shuts it down). In the M600 the controller in in charge so it won't shutdown while firmware upload is in progress.

[rtp]

I didn’t know it wouldn’t cut off, but if flashing over BT/BLE (versus cable with controller disconnected from motor and connected to PC) - putting the phone right next to the controller will make it go quicker. I sat my phone right on top of the motor on the frame..

[Tommy1394]

Can someone post the default profiles? I messed with them and the bike does not seem to perform as good as it did out of the box. I reflashed Firmware, but it still has my edited profiles.

[StvMan]

Moving to wet and rainy area. ..
…Any thoughts on the effectiveness of removing my motor, masking as appropriate, painting entire assembly (motor with controller installed) with clear paint or polyurethane. Any thoughts on this … or better yet…any proven waterproofing for the M600/V2 Ludi (Black Friday version).

[sharkytowers]

What’s the min Android version to run the mobile app? Going to have to pick up a used phone for the app…

What is the actual answer to this? I'm trying to use a Retroid Pocket 2 Plus handheld retro gaming rig. Android 9. Has bluetooth. When loading the app I get that "BLE Location services can't connect" even though I have location services on. It does find the controller, but when I connect it says "Serialization Error". I realize this is a somewhat odd Android device to be using, but it's what I happened to have around. Cheers to anyone that can shed any light.

[sharkytowers]

What is the actual answer to this? I'm trying to use a Retroid Pocket 2 Plus handheld retro gaming rig. Android 9. Has bluetooth. When loading the app I get that "BLE Location services can't connect" even though I have location services on. It does find the controller, but when I connect it says "Serialization Error". I realize this is a somewhat odd Android device to be using, but it's what I happened to have around. Cheers to anyone that can shed any light.

What is the actual answer to this? I'm trying to use a Retroid Pocket 2 Plus handheld retro gaming rig. Android 9. Has bluetooth. When loading the app I get that "BLE Location services can't connect" even though I have location services on. It does find the controller, but when I connect it says "Serialization Error". I realize this is a somewhat odd Android device to be using, but it's what I happened to have around. Cheers to anyone that can shed any light.

I literally bought a brand new Blu phone to try and run this app. It won't run on the phone either. It fails to install. Very frustrated.

[marcos]

Retroid pocket... yeah I can't assure that will work. The BLU phone however should work. Where did you get the app? Old versions of the app were not compatible with 32bit devices but then we found and fixed the issue. I have to say, I think your serialization error is my bad because I accidentally posted the next beta in place of the stable release everyone has been using. I took the link down this week, we have been testing the new software for quite some time. Let me get you a fresh link to the app, just in case.

[SurPaully]

Can someone post the default profiles? I messed with them and the bike does not seem to perform as good as it did out of the box. I reflashed Firmware, but it still has my edited profiles.

My X2 Ludi(small) came with following settings for Street/Trail/Ludicrus:
throttle amps 30/70/100
pas amps 20/60/94
power 500/2250/1250
rpm 3000/5000/6500
Throttle response .9 / .5 / .3
throttle linearity 100/100/100
fixed throttle amps-box unchecked

[K442]

Hummmm...seems like all the numbers are mainly in ascending order, except for "power". Is 500/2250/1250 really correct, or possibly that should be 500/1250/2250?

[sirgary]

This question is for anyonw who pre-ordered thier X2. Was the Ludi V2 included with your bike or did you pay the $400 for it. I thought it was to be included.