Luna M600 Ludicrous V2 controller documentation

[rtp]

This question is for anyonw who pre-ordered thier X2. Was the Ludi V2 included with your bike or did you pay the $400 for it. I thought it was to be included.

Optional at extra cost since the original Black Friday release...

[Tommy1394]

Can someone please help me analyze a data log from my M600 Ludicrous V2? I do not feel like the torque sensor is working properly. The bike feels very much like a BBSHD in terms of power delivery. Also, when I try to use the throttle to add power when climbing for example, it does not seem to add much power.

The csv log files from my last ride are located here:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AitZR1uhDAbuhPwN...oPQYA?e=y1c8vD

[marcos]

Hi Tommy,
I don't see anything wrong with the drive.


I see full throttle delivering 100Amps, and PAS assisting throughout the ride at 30+Amps. The code doesn't use the cadence sensor, it relies 100% on the torque sensor.

It looks like you pedal, speed increases and then you let go. Maybe you would be more comfortable with a lower assist?

[marcos]

Yes the M600 throttle is not nearly as powerful as the bbshd. Thats because the battery is much smaller and the motor is also smaller. I even used the M600 at 150Amps for a while but it was hard to tell the difference from 100A

[Tommy1394]

marcos, so I have my bike setup with default settings, I put it in trail mode via the app and riding the bike in level 4 of 9 or 5 of 9 via the handlebar control. If I come up to a section that is a bit steep and I try to use the throttle to help get up the hill it absolutely adds no additional power. Why is this? Do I need to change some settings?

[marcos]

In the app, in the TUNE tab, I imagine you have the default ludicrous settings, with an already generous "Throttle Amps".
Now scroll down to the bottom of the page and enable "Fixed Throttle Amps". This will make you have 100Amps available all the time at the throttle on any PAS level. So even if you are in level 5 of 9 you can drive 100 phase Amps.
Without that setting, in level 5 of 9 your throttle current is reduced to 55A (depends on the PAS level.

[rtp]

Can someone confirm X2 Ludi BMS steady state/nominal and peak, and expected levels of battery sag?
Sag is consistently seemingly ‘high’ at > 20%, but I ride mainly in PAS 2/9 Trail mode.
I have a crazy steep driveway so bump it up to 5 or 6/9 climbing it - battery sagged from ~80% down to 40%. Came back up top but - what’s ‘normal’ here?
?

[marcos]

In the shop we can see 10V of sag when pushing the bikes hard. When I asked this to the VESC architect, his response was "The battery level will vary much more than the voltage as the entire range is mapped across a small portion of the voltage. It probably makes sense to do some massive low-pass filtering on the battery level to prevent that."
But no matter how massive the filter is, the % will still be off until vesc starts using the mAh counter (which is very accurate).

[StvMan]

Marcos, could you add a speed limit function to the m600 and BBSHD V2 controllers? …. I see there being a need for EMTB competition as well as operating in foreign countries or other class 1 restricted areas (ie 250w/750w 20kph limits). ……The max power setting seems easy, but setting the rpm limit doesn’t limit the bike speed (or perhaps it does, but only in one of your gears).

[marcos]

Yes, its in the todo list

[petkevich]

Macros,
Love the X2 and the new V2 controller. Thanks for all your hard work!

Couple questions:
1) When will the new firmware be released?
2) For this release do you have the list bugs that are fixed?
3) For this release do you have a list of new features that will be introduced?
4) Will there be an update at the same time for the mobile App?
5) Is there a working list of bugs/features that the community could provide priority feedback?

Thanks man!

.......dp

[marcos]

1) Soon, it has been tested at luna for some weeks now, no showstoppers so far.
2) 3) there is a changelog. I have to say, some issues I could never reproduce but I introduced tentative fixes that are not in the changelog. This is a short, user friendly changelog, but there is also the complete changelog with over 260 contributions to the VESC codebase that were introduced over the last year, some of them change fundamental behavior under the hood, but many don't apply to luna hardware.
4) Yes, new app, new firmware. New app only works with new firmware.
5) Not quite, I just keep an internal to-do list based on what I see here are in facebook...

[dhartst]

Hey all,

I just ordered my X2 (after a very happy stint with an X1 until it was stolen) and I've been reading through the documentation, thanks for it! One thing that isn't clear is the app version. Should I be downloading from the Google Play App store? Or using the link in the pdf? If the later, the link says that "public sharing has been turned off." Thanks and sorry to ask such a basic question.

Thanks again!

[paxtana]

Play version will brick it, don't do that. A new link should be up shortly

[dhartst]

Thanks paxtana.

[marcos]

Hi dhartst, link in the manual is up now

[K442]

Hi Marcos, Do you know if it possible to buy the ludicrous V2 controller for any M600 motor ?
Kind regards

Not possible at the moment. It may be in the future if we find a way to make sure that users won't damage the wiring during installation.

It's been about 4 months, and hadn't heard anything, so just wanted to check back in and see if any progress made towards this possibility?

[marcos]

There has been progress, with a design update that made installation safer but its not for sale quite yet, its getting closer though

[fishzilla]

I just saw a video by Luna stating the IOS "apple" is now supported .

[carlb4u]

would recommend not trying to install and connect IOS app until we here from Marco, it might brick your controller

[marcos]

yeah, but please wait until we get this new firmware released, you need it to connect to an iphone. I'll explain in the release notes

[Tommy1394]

marcos when is the new firmware scheduled to be released?

[Jeff Lionz]

Guys, Definitely wait until the firmware is released because last time I bricked my controller and it was a major hassle to un-brick it

[AZguy]

Well then it wasn't really bricked =]

Good advice regardless!!!!

[Tommy1394]

Guys, Definitely wait until the firmware is released because last time I bricked my controller and it was a major hassle to un-brick it

Anyone have an ETA on the new firmware release needed for iPhone?

[Tommy1394]

I just saw a video by Luna stating the IOS "apple" is now supported .

So the link in the manual shows firmware dated today. When I try to upload it via the android app date 4/15/22 it says invalid firmware. How can I make this work?

[marcos]

Hey guys,
the software release happened today!

See the updated first post in this thread to find links to the www.lunacycle.com/update where you can find instructions, a step by step video and the App installer

If you have questions post them here and I'll try to help!

[skier]

After the upgrade, when I restart the controller, it flashes Error 25 and then goes to the normal screen. Seems to ride normally after that. Also, the on/off button on the controller doesn’t want to turn off the controller. It sometimes work, but mostly doesn’t respond. I can turn it off using the battery button.

[marcos]

That brief error right after update is normal... the controller is focused on getting tons of bytes written into flash, doesn't care to comply with the display protocol.
I'm reducing the time required to push the button down to power off the bike. It works but it got weirdly long after changing the timing for odometer reasons, now its much nicer. Will push the update soon!

[rtp]

Congrats on the release!

Working fine here on both Android and iPhone other than the known iPhone issue with file handling, and my perpetually poor (still) BT connectivity. Both phones mounted to the top tube via an armband 'jogger' setup.

Battery reading is much improved with some smoothing or buffering added, no instant crazy sag, although I still need/want to check my actual battery BMS when I get to it. Dashboard is better overall as well.

I need to pay more attention on the range reported - seems like it reduces range quickly (e.g. go into throttle mode for a bit) - does it also 'recover' and increase range if you return to 'more normal' riding w/out throttle?

Still hoping to see a less throttle-focused set of changes like e.g. PAS ramp-up setting, not just throttle linearity/ramp etc. I had a friend and his wife (analog MTBers) jump on my wife's Bosch and mine - while I think once you get moving, the behavior is pretty similar, they both immediately noticed the near-instant non-ramp of power onset from a standstill on my X2. They liked my Ludi X2, but 'the Bosch is more natural feeling' - I suspect due to the ramp-up. This was on L2 of 9, Trail Mode. I've adjusted to it but would be nice to be able to tweak/adjust a bit to suit purpose, etc.

Also, any guidance on effect of the field weakening slider? I understand it generally can lead to more power, but a summary of the effect would be good.
New update site, videos etc. and doc updates are all good - would be good to record default values for each mode for sanity, as sometimes it's easy to be swiping across screens but it grabs one of the sliders. Also IMO would be good to display actual numeric value next to the sliders, so you don't have to touch them to see their set value.

Overall great and zero issues here.

[marcos]

Thanks rtp,

I need to pay more attention on the range reported - seems like it reduces range quickly (e.g. go into throttle mode for a bit) - does it also 'recover' and increase range if you return to 'more normal' riding w/out throttle?

The range is a simple remaining_energy[Wh] / efficiency[Wh/km]
Remaining energy comes from the battery%, and efficiency is the average since boot.

Efficiency is real hard to estimate or predict as it depends a lot on how hard you're using your legs. If reception is good I can get that number printed in the DPC display, otherwise I'll keep looking for a better way to calculate it.

Still hoping to see a less throttle-focused set of changes like e.g. PAS ramp-up setting, not just throttle linearity/ramp etc. I had a friend and his wife (analog MTBers) jump on my wife's Bosch and mine - while I think once you get moving, the behavior is pretty similar, they both immediately noticed the near-instant non-ramp of power onset from a standstill on my X2. They liked my Ludi X2, but 'the Bosch is more natural feeling' - I suspect due to the ramp-up. This was on L2 of 9, Trail Mode. I've adjusted to it but would be nice to be able to tweak/adjust a bit to suit purpose, etc.

I have this already coded so PAS filter can be tuned from the app. Needs a bit of testing and its ready to go.

Also, any guidance on effect of the field weakening slider? I understand it generally can lead to more power, but a summary of the effect would be good.

Its a concept not easy to grasp, I added a note in the manual without getting into any math.

It could be said that when the motor is running out of volts to reach the commanded speed, the controller injects FW current that reduces BackEMF that allows it to inject more torque-generating current.

FW only works at high rpm, and extends the max speed in exchange of more winding losses.

New update site, videos etc. and doc updates are all good - would be good to record default values for each mode for sanity, as sometimes it's easy to be swiping across screens but it grabs one of the sliders. Also IMO would be good to display actual numeric value next to the sliders, so you don't have to touch them to see their set value.

Yeah we should show the default values somehow, at least in the manual.

Overall great and zero issues here.

Glad to hear so!