Luna M600 Ludicrous V2 controller documentation

[rtp]

Thanks rtp,

The range is a simple remaining_energy[Wh] / efficiency[Wh/km]
Remaining energy comes from the battery%, and efficiency is the average since boot.

Efficiency is real hard to estimate or predict as it depends a lot on how hard you're using your legs. If reception is good I can get that number printed in the DPC display, otherwise I'll keep looking for a better way to calculate it.

Yeah, understood RE: calculations being tough as it's constantly varying (human + motor power) over time. Is this part of the code committed into VESC main, or 'custom Marcos'? :)
My math is probably way too rusty nowadays but I might know someone who obsesses over this stuff and may be able to provide <something>.

I have this already coded so PAS filter can be tuned from the app. Needs a bit of testing and its ready to go.

Ooh, awesome, look forward to it. It's kind of weird, as I'm still unsure how many percentage-wise are using the X2 more 'by throttle' vs as MTB first/mostly power-assist. I think I'll play with it once available a bit jumping on and off the X2 and my wife's Bosch, then 'final test' is let my friend and/or his wife jump on both again.

The OE Bafang controllers basically have N assist levels baked into their controller, e.g. the Spd[0,20,40,60,.80,100] values - does the VESC/V2 use discrete 'steps' or levels of power applies within given ranges of torque input, or it's fully dynamic?

(Field weakening)
Its a concept not easy to grasp, I added a note in the manual without getting into any math.

It could be said that when the motor is running out of volts to reach the commanded speed, the controller injects FW current that reduces BackEMF that allows it to inject more torque-generating current.

FW only works at high rpm, and extends the max speed in exchange of more winding losses.

Yeah we should show the default values somehow, at least in the manual.

Is it specifically on allowing higher motor RPM, or additional power to reach higher RPM? Will go do some googling - have read about but not in detail.
I saw the added note I think after asking - considering it does increase temps, is it fair to say should only enable when top speed is a priority, or <something else>?

Sorry, last Q (for now ;) ) - what exactly is the relationship of 'eRPM' and actual motor RPM?

[rtp]

Ok, so - I'm embarrassed to say, datalogging on iPhone (do NOT use to try to do fw updates!) works. I wasted much time on this falling into a black hole of trying to get alternate file mgmt apps and the like, as the native VESC file browser (e.g. for choosing a log folder) brings up the app's sandboxed environment looking like a Unix/Linux filesystem, e.g. /var/mobile/Containers/<GUID>/<blah blah/more> while of course the IOS Files app - does not such thing.

Wasted a ton of time down that black hole and was convinced I couldn't 'find' the logs, nor set the log output to somewhere useful, like e.g. Documents/Logs. But it's simple - either you can open Files then search for YYYY-MM-DD, e.g. 2022-05-04 and look for the file with the same at the start of it's name (rest of name is HH_MM_SS or hours, minutes, seconds log started) ending in .csv.
OR, you know - you can go to Files / On my iPhone / VESC Tool - and there you go. From there, long press, Share, mail or text to yourself, send to dropbox or whatever so you can do analysis in the desktop app. Easy. :D

PS - iPhone app seems to NOT retain datalogging setting, would be great to merge this into main VESC etc.

[rtp]

iPhone app seems to not request to disable screensaver - anyone else seeing the same?

[marcos]

Seb mentioned the same thing. How long does it take to go to sleep? I want to raise a ticket in the vesc tool github repo

[rtp]

iPhone app seems to not request to disable screensaver - anyone else seeing the same?

Few minutes and is off unless you are tapping the screen quickly (not safe). Should be an app property or startup request AFAIK. Can manually disable screen ock but not ideal. Definite bug IMO.

[marcos]

Okay, issue raised, I think Jeff should be able to help https://github.com/vedderb/vesc_tool/issues/230

[rtp]

@marcos
Thanks - wasn't sure where the IOS mobile app was taking defect/issue submissions.

[Tommy1394]

You can triple click your iPhone side button to put it on guided access mode and it will not turn the screen off. You have to then triple click to take it out of this mode

[LarryMagoo]

Does anyone know what Battery Cell Luna Cycle uses to build their eBike batteries with?

Thanks,
Larry

[paxtana]

Depends on the battery

[LarryMagoo]

Hi Pax,


I have a lot of experience building batteries for my RC Airplanes that use electric motors. 20+ years ago the only choice was NiCad...of course Lithium made a huge difference in weight and output. Like I was telling Sebz....the Bafang computer says my Apollo Battery will only charge to 90% and as he says, those percent figure are not accurate. It will charge to 58 volts instead of the 58.8 it should charge to. So I was looking in to building a new battery that has got to have 14 cells or maybe it's a 2P with 28 cells? Anyway I was just lookin to it.

[AZguy]

FWIW pretty much any EV battery including bikes are very different animals than RC batteries and not just due to the higher voltages and currents

A 52V battery will have 14 groups of parallel cells in series (14s) and most bike batteries are from 4 to 8 cells in parallel in each group that is in series (e.g. 14s4p, 14s8p...)

Unless you are building several batteries cost will likely not be a good economical reason to embark on the task

[LarryMagoo]

I appreciate your help AZguy. So you are saying that to build one battery pack, it would not make $ense so just pay full retail for an assembled and built battery?

[AZguy]

Pretty much

After you add up the tools, material, time to research and acquire the skills it's not likely to make much sense for a one or two up

OTOH I get it that for many bike building (including batteries) is a hobby and so we don't need to account for our time for something we enjoy doing but even taking that into account it would be hard to "break even"... but if you get joy from building a couple don't let my naysaying hold you back, just don't be under the illusion that it's likely going to be economically justifiable (or all that easy), particularly if you value your time at more than $0.50/hr and no matter what, some of the work will be more tedious (there's a lot of welding!) than enjoyable. It's also a bit dangerous - keep the beer for after LOL!

[rtp]

marcos is there a rolling changelog somewhere? e.g. post 1 in this thread is for 4/29 and the update page doesn't give the changelog for the recent build from the 9th with pas ramping etc. ?

[marcos]

woops, forgot to update post 1, fixed now

[LarryMagoo]

I appreciate your help AZguy. So you are saying that to build one battery pack, it would not make $ense so just pay full retail for an assembled and built battery?

Yep....you may be right....the batteries alone would be $650 plus now you need to build the pack.....The batt pack is available for $1000 so you have to figure out how much you are willing to work to save that additional build money....you are probably right!

[goingup4m]

Is there a setting to have full throttle control when in PAS 0? This is my favorite way to ride my BBSHD, just add a little throttle when you need it. Over the course of a ride I feel like I use less battery when riding this way.

[marcos]

Um, PAS 0 is coded to fully disable the motor, it was a design spec. One way to sort of workaround it is to reduce the PAS Amps to zero in the app. Obvious downside is that you need the phone to go in and out of this mode.

[goingup4m]

I will give it a try, thanks

[Maly]

Is there a setting to have full throttle control when in PAS 0? This is my favorite way to ride my BBSHD, just add a little throttle when you need it. Over the course of a ride I feel like I use less battery when riding this way.

I just got my Luna X2 and I'm still learning the ropes with the LudiV2.

I agree with you that the throttle should be separated from PAS. The throttle should always be available to the maximum power limit as indicated by the selected profile.

---

[rtp]

There seems to be a new display which is kind of interesting. What are the odds of it working?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804134050147.html

[marcos]

not sure... so far the 2 canbus displays were pretty different and needed some patches to get it working on both. With that in mind I'd guess it will have quirks and I'll need one shipped to the lab to attempt a debug

[perseverantone]

Very little chance. LUNA says the X2 Ludi V2 can use the 860C but the one they sell is the 850C there is a P860C that looks super nice, that I thought may work, its the next generation of the 860C, but the display they sell has a pixelated blue gray display which are the few colors I have trouble seeing when placed on top of each other. If this works please let me know. I Swear it looks like windows 98se graphics. I thought they would of changed graphics to use the quality display but they haven't. Displays are the Luna X2 Ludi's only kryptonite. None work but the one they sell. I plan to use AMAZOn and try as many with the same plug as I can and if they don't work, repackage and return. I also wonder why they don't get it working with egg rider v2, or another display where you can change between 3 Maps Road, Trail & Ludicrous without having a phone on you would be a nice integration. It's weird they say the LUNA X2 works with this display, but the photo on the link to the display but customer review looks crisp and easy to read but on their website, it looks like crap, Frank LOPEZ verified buyer took photo of display on his bike, but I don't know if he is riding X2 Ludicrous or another bafang motor- https://lunacycle.com/luna-full-colo...able-selector/

[IOUZIP]

For those looking for a cheap Android phone to run the VESC app on check out your local Walmart or online at Amazon and pickup a prepaid locked phone for $50 or less. Samsung A03s, Motorola Moto G Pure, TCL 30 Z, etc... Just configure it and update via wifi. They all have Bluetooth 5.0 and are offer future OS and security updates.

[perseverantone]

backmarket.com find Refurbished phones with a 2-year break-fix warranty and 30-day return/exchange policy just bought an S10Plus for my new LUNA X2 Ludi that should arrive tomorrow. For only $152 Bucks. Also WideMan EX behind Bar bag, or Whale Fall EVA bag on Amazon holds Phones in the best location and shades display from sun glare. Rockbros makes one too.

[IOUZIP]

Marcos,
The v2 controller in trail mode with default settings is my current config. Which changes to the parameters will make the PAS more progressive?

[marcos]

You mean progressive as in linear, or as in slower? PAS is already fully linear, for a sensed pedal torque it will apply a proportional amount of motor torque. You change the multiplying factor by setting the PAS level and/or the PAS Amps in the app.
If what you're looking for is a slower response, you can reduce the PAS response slider in the app, so for example it takes 1.0 seconds to ramp up the torque

[AZguy]

IMHO linear is a bad progression

I'm not sure whether this is what the post concerns but after going to a geometric (exponential) progression I'm much, much happier with my V1 BBSHD

Every level about 140% the prior level with every two levels doubling power (9 levels) - this is a far more useful progression, at least for me... the first level starts quite low, maybe 5-6% or so and all levels get used although 8 & 9 (~1050W & ~1500W) are very seldom used

I've tuned numerous others this way with the only difference the starting point, some find 5-6% too low to be useful, I use it frequently however, regardless every user I've change to this has liked it much better than linear

[IOUZIP]

So I think if I knew what the PAS Response 0.6 was but from the manual it does not tell you the value is seconds. Maybe that is where I got lost. Is it possible to add the values to the tune settings so it could be understood better. This would help us learning what the numbers in the settings mean.

[perseverantone]

Ok, so - I'm embarrassed to say, datalogging on iPhone (do NOT use to try to do fw updates!) works. I wasted much time on this falling into a black hole of trying to get alternate file mgmt apps and the like, as the native VESC file browser (e.g. for choosing a log folder) brings up the app's sandboxed environment looking like a Unix/Linux filesystem, e.g. /var/mobile/Containers/<GUID>/<blah blah/more> while of course the IOS Files app - does not such thing.

Wasted a ton of time down that black hole and was convinced I couldn't 'find' the logs, nor set the log output to somewhere useful, like e.g. Documents/Logs. But it's simple - either you can open Files then search for YYYY-MM-DD, e.g. 2022-05-04 and look for the file with the same at the start of it's name (rest of name is HH_MM_SS or hours, minutes, seconds log started) ending in .csv.
OR, you know - you can go to Files / On my iPhone / VESC Tool - and there you go. From there, long press, Share, mail or text to yourself, send to dropbox or whatever so you can do analysis in the desktop app. Easy. :D

PS - iPhone app seems to NOT retain datalogging setting, would be great to merge this into main VESC etc.

I phone doesn't have full functionality. Buy a Refurbished Phone on Backmarket.com you can get them as cheap as 112 bucks for phones produced from 2019-2021. I got the S10Plus comes with 2-year drop/fix replacement too.

I can not find any 160mm Crank arms and its driving me nuts. So hard to find for m600

Chris