Double Torque / Double Gear Hubmotor

[paxtana]

https://lunacycle.com/double-gear-double-torque-motor/

• Width questions: both front and rear dropouts need to be spread about 10 mm. Rear axle for 135mm dropouts (needs spread to 145), front axle for 100mm dropouts spread to 110. Due to the front being a bit wider than normal it is recommended not to use front hub with suspension forks. If using this front hub with a standard 100mm you must be willing to bend the fork a bit to fit. Also keep an eye out for the part of the lowers where they curve inward, the green part on this diagram. Your fork needs enough clearance here that it does not hit the motor.

• Axle end to end for rear doubletorque hub: ~ 19.5 cm to 19.8 cm
• 36H hub for building with 36H bike rim
• Is the controller programmable: No it is 20A max. This kit is designed to be a reliable workhorse, not a hot rod :)
• Voltages it can take: 48-52v. At 52v and 20A it is 1040W peak. We have tested it at higher voltage and it worked as well but we cannot offer support if you overvolt past 52v nominal.
• Does it have PAS? Yes every kit ships with the sensor included. Sensor may not be compatible with all bottom bracket standards and may need to be modified
• PAS sensor installation: Mount on the non-drive side between the crank arm and the BB. The smooth side faces out. The other side is held in place by the splines of the BB while the center of it rotates with the cranks.
• I have problem XYZ on kit, what do? If you are able to use the display, navigate to the diagnostics option and it will help you fix it.
• Compatibility: Some wiring on the kit follows the Bafang standard. All Bafang throttles work with this kit. Possibly also the ebrakes (unverified)
• Password for advanced settings? 1919
• How to get into menu? Double click M to get to regular settings it will be in the "Display settings" menu. Now click the power button once to go over to the System setting. Now you can click down to advanced settings, click M to select them, now click down to entering the password (1919). Enter the password by clicking up or down to choose each number, then selecting the number by clicking M. It moves to the next space so you can choose the next number of the password (1919)
• Speed: if you want a good top speed make sure to use a rim like 26". As with any hubmotor, small rims mean less top speed but more torque. Since this motor already provides good torque a small wheel is unnecessary.
• How to remove motor casing? Use M5 bolts on casing, then a tool to clamp onto those bolts to twist and unscrew casing itself.
• How big of a cassette can you put on this?
  It's about 34mm spline, so probably shimano 8/9 speed cassette
• Is the power wiring plug-and-play with my battery?
  The controller has bare wires for the power wiring to the battery, please see the hardcase or soft pack documentation for info on various ways of making the connection.
• How to mount the hubmotor with washers in the dropouts?
  There are multiple ways to do this depending on your frame and your specific build. Please see this link on EbikeSchool for an overview. Take care to do this properly to ensure the motor does not bind up.
• Does this have wattage markings on it?
  No power markings on it.
• Could I put a smaller freehub body on it so it fits within thinner dropouts?
  Yes hypothetically.

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How to install the ebrake (not required for kit to work but included with kit)

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Performance

In low-speed condition, rpm is 78, while the torque reaches 43.41N,m, which is 1.82 times of the torque in high-speed condition

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Some customer feedback after real world usage

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Error codes and what they mean (you also have diagnostics built into the display you can use)

Error Code	Error description	Handle
01	Communication Error	Check the cable connection
21	Current protection	Check controller.
22	Throttle error	Check turn to connect.
23	three-phase power error	Check three-phase power line connection
24	Hall error	Check the hall connection
25	Brake error	Check the brake connection.
26	Controller LVC	Voltage too low on battery
35,	Controller LVC	Voltage too low on battery
27-99	reserved

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How to remove the cover to open the casing and reach the internals: there are 3 bolt holes on the motor, bolt that fits through there so you have something to grab onto and twist it open. Seen below is a tool made with just a piece of hardware store steel angle but many other items would probably do the trick including a plumber wrench.

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Flange measurements for lacing:
Front:
Flange diameter is 120 for both left and right side
Space between flanges is 46mm
Left flange to locknut is 33mm (front hub) right flange to locknut is 25mm
Rear:
flange diameter is 120mm for both sides
Space between flanges is 46mm as well
Left flange to lock nut is 40mm and right flange to locknut is 62mm
keep in mind that for the rear hub the numbers for the flange to locknut might change since we need to figure out the right measurements but this should be fairly close

[spinningmagnets]

Thanks for starting this thread, this motor has a tremendous amount of potential.

[tlange68154]

I'm trying to get an estimate from a wheel builder to lace this hub into an offset fat wheel for a Surly Pugsley. Do you have the flange measurements ready?
The builder needs them to provide the estimate.
Thank You!

[paxtana]

Sorry not yet just waiting on the shop

[paxtana]

I'm trying to get an estimate from a wheel builder to lace this hub into an offset fat wheel for a Surly Pugsley. Do you have the flange measurements ready?
The builder needs them to provide the estimate.
Thank You!

Measurements have been added

[Soren]

How do you instal the PAS sensor that comes in this kit?

[Soren]

its mounted on the non-drive side in between the crank arm and the BB. The smooth side faces out. The other side is held in place by the splines of the BB while the center of it rotates with the cranks.

[paxtana]

Thanks, added the info to the post at top

[milaman]

I put the wheel/hub in the drop outs and the wheel isn't center to the hub. If I dish it the spokes will be to straight up and down. What am I missing?

[bleedpurple]

I have the same problem. Did you ever resolve it?

[paxtana]

We have found sometimes dish will need to be adjusted depending on your application, it seems to be more prevalent on this since it is a nonstandard width. Yes you can dish it as with any other wheel just tighten spokes (i.e. tighten the drive side spokes and loosen non-drive side spokes) do this in small adjustments, and ideally check it with a park tool tensionmeter so you can see a visualization / and automated QC checking. http://www.parktool.com/wta

Yes the spokes on one side can be relatively straight. As long as you are not adjusting one side so much that the top of the spokes are poking through the rim into the tube you're fine.

[randito3]

How do you get into the settings of the LCD? Cant find the answer anywhere.

[Soren]

Double click M to get to regular settings it will be in the "Display settings" menu. Now click the power button once to go over to the System setting. Now you can click down to advanced settings, click M to select them, now click down to entering the password (1919). Enter the password by clicking up or down to choose each number, then selecting the number by clicking M. It moves to the next space so you can choose the next number of the password (1919).
hope this helps

[paxtana]

How do you get into the settings of the LCD? Cant find the answer anywhere.

I have added a few videos at the top including one that shows an in depth walk-through on the display and settings. Should be fairly straightforward

[randito3]

I have added a few videos at the top including one that shows an in depth walk-through on the display and settings. Should be fairly straightforward

I have watched the video about the color display settings already. It does not tell you the sequence to get into the settings menu. It cuts out how he got into the menu settings. I've hit every combination of buttons I can think of with no luck. I've emailed Luna at the beginning of the week and still have no answer to my question. Very frustrating. Not to mention this motor is giving me trouble running it as is. Keeps shutting down with no high temperature.

[Soren]

Double click M to get to regular settings it will be in the "Display settings" menu. Now click the power button once to go over to the System setting. Now you can click down to advanced settings, click M to select them, now click down to entering the password (1919). Enter the password by clicking up or down to choose each number, then selecting the number by clicking M. It moves to the next space so you can choose the next number of the password (1919).
hope this helps

[paxtana]

Thanks Soren I have added this info to the top.

randito3 sorry to hear about the trouble with shutdowns, please email support with a description of the issue and we can help troubleshoot it.

[randito3]

Thanks Soren! Exactly what I was looking for. paxtana I will email them and see whats going on. It passed all the diagnostics.

[Soren]

Can this motor move faster?
I have it in a 20 in wheel. With throttle only the top speed is 14mph, while in the highest level of pedal assist the top speed is 18 mph. These numbers both go down to 12 and 16 respectively when on the road and the bike isn't being held off the ground.
Even if I change the wheel size to 26 inch in the settings, the top speed with just throttle is ~18 mph, and nearly 22mph with pedal assist.

all using the 52v Mighty mini cube battery.

Also tried just unplugging the PAS sensor to see if there was a difference.

[Eric Luna]

In a 20 inch wheel this motor is gong to be geared really low.... there is no way to get it to go faster without changing the diameter of the wheel.

[paxtana]

Hm.. Well you would certainly get more top speed with a larger rim, when you build motors into a small rim you sacrifice top speed for increased torque. It's hard to say whether that accounts for the entirety of the lack of top speed but it is likely. Increased torque is much less of an issue on the double torque motor so it does make sense to go with a larger rim if possible.
The report I have linked to in the above documentation was tested using a 26 inch rim and 48 V battery and I think he got about 22 mph, not exactly straightforward to know how that would apply to I 20 inch rim and 52 V battery.
Anyway if you cannot increase your rim size and there is no limitation in the controller, like you have tried different wheel sizes etc. then the only option left would be to overvolt, using a higher voltage battery. Not something we would recommend but we did try it as you can see in one of the videos with a 72 V battery and it worked, hard to say how long it would work for though.

[Soren]

this is unfortunate news, if only the description had said "We have it available in 29 inch, 26 inch, 20 inch wheels, but if its in a 20 inch wheel it will be geared really low and so likely will be a lot slower"

[Rodney64]

Dimensions of the 145mm motor