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    Couple more detail oriented questions...

    Moving ahead with plan “C”...but part availability is slowing procurement a bit...and I have a couple more questions.

    Coming from the motorcycle side of things I’m leaning towards the full twist throttle option, but I wonder how much friction (if any) there is as the throttle is applied?

    My plan C donor bike arrived as well as the battery and charger. The Luna Wolf V2 52v fits in the triangle, but holding the weight in my hands, and looking at the two bottle cage bolts...I wonder if those two bolts are strong enough? I can add the no drill mount kit...but it’d be nice to keep the mounting cleaner if possible??

    Looking at supplies to have handy, the silicone wire seems to be available in short lengths, or pricey excessive rolls...how much length of 10 & 12 gage wire should I have on hand?

    Thanks for anymore of your thoughts and comments!! For now...back to my electrical homework...

    Kenn

    PS...I sold a rifle which doubled my budget, so here is my plan C donor bike, I went for the full suspension option...now I’m waiting for the 68-73mm BBSHD to become available again...

    Click image for larger version

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    Attached Files

    #2
    I converted a Trek from 5mm to 6mm bottle cage bolts. But I would try it on one you won't be using for the battery first to see how it works on that bike. 6mmx1.0 tap drill size is 5mm.
    I'm running a medium cage derailer with an 11-40t casette. Very nice donor bike. Looks like a 27.5? Fox fork, nice big brakes. If you run an MC type RH twist throttle you need to figure out where the shifter will end up. MTB rear shifters are all rh type. Both brakes are up there too. AZ Guy probably has it all figured out.

    Comment


      #3
      I have Luna Wolves with both the V1 round magnets and the V2 rectangle plate. I have moderately abused them on my Surly fully rigid bike on the trails including some crashs and they seem to be fine on just the 2 cage bolts. I will note that the Surly's are steel so I suspect makes for a mount that can take more abuse than it would be on aluminum which I also have but its mostly a street bike so not nearly the banging around you get on the trails. I also am using them with the Luna triangle bag, I punched holes in the bottom of the bag them mounted the magnets in the bag. I know some times the bag has kept the battery near the magnet so it can't get too far away and falls back on the magnet. When I did run without the bag I used a rubber strap to make sure it didn't get too far away from the magnets on a crash, that too was a steel frame.

      Comment


        #4
        I really like ergon grips with the right-hand twist half-throttle - if I could do something similar on a moto I'd consider it

        I swap front and rear brakes to get them on the proper side (front brake on right only!) on every bike I've owned from day one I get the bike - and been doing this for decades since I was young... never understood why they are mixed up - my understanding is the europeans put them on properly but I don't know this for sure

        As Retrorocket pointed out shifters are made for the right side which also seems totally backwards to a moto guy - transmission control is on the left! If you have a twist shift you could like swap them and just twist the other way which doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I've got a trigger shifter that was made for the right side under the bar and I just moved it to the left side on top of the bar and it works prefect

        I use the ergon grips and they sell them in half or full flavors so a half for the right side with the throttle and full for the left side - if I had a twist on the left then half for both.

        Here's an older picture of my cockpit

        Click image for larger version

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        Comment


        • Retrorockit
          Retrorockit commented
          Editing a comment
          I don't have any MC habits, but I like the shifter to be on the opposite side from the front brake so I can throw downshifts while slowing down.
          My own street rat setup involves Shimano Rapid rise (low normal) XTR mid cage derailer with matching Shimano Revoshifter (gripshift).Obviously you don't need the throttle when braking so it ends up somewhere else. So I think AZ and I just run everything on opposite sides. On MC you have one foot brake, and one foot shifter. That won't happen on a bicycle, so you have to plan ahead some.

        #5
        Originally posted by Retrorockit View Post
        I converted a Trek from 5mm to 6mm bottle cage bolts. But I would try it on one you won't be using for the battery first to see how it works on that bike. 6mmx1.0 tap drill size is 5mm.
        I'm running a medium cage derailer with an 11-40t casette. Very nice donor bike. Looks like a 27.5? Fox fork, nice big brakes. If you run an MC type RH twist throttle you need to figure out where the shifter will end up. MTB rear shifters are all rh type. Both brakes are up there too. AZ Guy probably has it all figured out.
        I hadn’t thought about the handlebar layout...guess I need to give it some thought. The bike was advertised as a 2007, but might be an 06, has 26” wheels...it came out of Colorado, and looks almost but not quite brand new. I’ll give your oversized bolt idea some thought, I have the older project bikes to practice on, but those are not aluminum alloy frames.

        I’m starting to feel like for everything I learn, I find out about two more things to figure out...enjoying the process though... :-) ...glad I’m not on a schedule.

        Thanks!

        Comment


        • Retrorockit
          Retrorockit commented
          Editing a comment
          I like 26" for street riding. Low inertia for takeoffs, and quick handling. That's exactly the kind of bike I like to to convert. Is this for trail riding or street?

        #6
        Originally posted by 73Eldo View Post
        I have Luna Wolves with both the V1 round magnets and the V2 rectangle plate. I have moderately abused them on my Surly fully rigid bike on the trails including some crashs and they seem to be fine on just the 2 cage bolts. I will note that the Surly's are steel so I suspect makes for a mount that can take more abuse than it would be on aluminum which I also have but its mostly a street bike so not nearly the banging around you get on the trails. I also am using them with the Luna triangle bag, I punched holes in the bottom of the bag them mounted the magnets in the bag. I know some times the bag has kept the battery near the magnet so it can't get too far away and falls back on the magnet. When I did run without the bag I used a rubber strap to make sure it didn't get too far away from the magnets on a crash, that too was a steel frame.
        Thanks for the data points...I actually thought about the bag as an option, before I felt how heavy the battery really is.

        Comment


        • 73Eldo
          73Eldo commented
          Editing a comment
          Note in my case its the magnets inside the bag so most of the work is done by the magnets, bag is mostly to make it look less like a battery and a backup for when the bike ends up on its side for some reason because that will pop it off the magnet. It seems to take about the same amount of force to knock it off the magnet as it does to bruise some ribs if you are looking for data points.

        #7
        Originally posted by AZguy View Post
        I really like ergon grips with the right-hand twist half-throttle - if I could do something similar on a moto I'd consider it

        I swap front and rear brakes to get them on the proper side (front brake on right only!) on every bike I've owned from day one I get the bike - and been doing this for decades since I was young... never understood why they are mixed up - my understanding is the europeans put them on properly but I don't know this for sure

        As Retrorocket pointed out shifters are made for the right side which also seems totally backwards to a moto guy - transmission control is on the left! If you have a twist shift you could like swap them and just twist the other way which doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I've got a trigger shifter that was made for the right side under the bar and I just moved it to the left side on top of the bar and it works prefect

        I use the ergon grips and they sell them in half or full flavors so a half for the right side with the throttle and full for the left side - if I had a twist on the left then half for both.

        Here's an older picture of my cockpit

        Click image for larger version

Name:	i-CTXHB3B-XL.jpg
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ID:	125997
        Does the twist throttle have a return like a motorcycle? I contemplated swapping my brakes like you when I first got my Crosstrail, but it never caused me any issues...although I thought it might after 25 years of all motorcycle and no bicycle riding. I imagine the handlebar layout just take a bit of trial and error to find what works best...

        Thanks for the info!!

        Comment


          #8
          Originally posted by KennVFRidr View Post

          Does the twist throttle have a return like a motorcycle?
          Yup, just like moto... they are very inexpensive too, the grip cost a lot more =]

          I don't use the throttle much - just for fast varying terrain or other instant response situations... otherwise I just rely on pedal-assist

          I have it so ingrained in my head that the power brake (front) is on the left that there's no way I'm going to be good with it on the wrong side... I'd just be grabbing handfuls of rear brake... for some reason the transition of rear from right foot to left hand isn't an issue but then again I've been riding bicycles like this for more than four decades

          Comment


          • Retrorockit
            Retrorockit commented
            Editing a comment
            I thought about going to RH front brake but didn't because of the shifter issue. There are some good reasons to have the dominant hand working the primary brake. Sheldon Brown goes into them on his website. A lot of people prefer it that way.

          #9
          Originally posted by Retrorockit
          I thought about going to RH front brake but didn't because of the shifter issue. There are some good reasons to have the dominant hand working the primary brake. Sheldon Brown goes into them on his website. A lot of people prefer it that way.
          I did a quick search and according to Rene Herse Cycles:
          One of the most confounding questions in cycling is this: Which hand should control which brake? In the U.S., the law requires that all bikes are sold with the left hand controlling the front brake, and the right hand the rear brake. It’s the same in France. In Italy and Great Britain, it’s the other way around.
          I had heard it was the other way in europe but sounds like the french are holdouts

          Many myths surround the reasons for these differences, but history is the most likely explanation: Early bikes had only a rear brake. In France, this usually was a rim brake. The early brakes were not very powerful, so you needed lots of hand power to stop the bike. Most people are right-handed, and it made sense to control the single brake with the right hand. In Italy and Britain, the single brake was a coaster brake, and there was no brake lever at all.
          When front brakes were added to bikes sometime in the 20th century, this required adding a brake lever to the handlebars. In France, the right side was taken, so they mounted the extra lever on the left (above). In “coaster-brake countries,” the handlebars were still empty, so the brake lever for the front brake went on the right side (below). When racers started using rim brakes on both wheels, the extra brake lever (for the rear wheel) went on the left side.

          The U.S. copied French practice – probably because Schwinn was the only company importing performance bikes with hand brakes, and Schwinn was influenced by French bicycles.
          Those are the historic reasons why some use “right – front” and others “left – front,” but this doesn’t answer the question: Which is better?

          Many reasons have been put forward for the “right hand – front brake” approach. Most motorcycles use that configuration, since the right hand operates the throttle, the left hand the clutch, which in turn means that the right side of the handlebars is the only place to put a brake lever.
          FWIW it's regulated to have the brake on the right for motos in the US
          Some cyclocross racers prefer the “right – front” setup, so they can brake on the rear with their left hand as they dismount. I am not so sure this makes sense – to get your bike fishtailing when you have only one hand on the bars seems like a really bad idea. You really should be done with braking by the time you release the bars and prepare to shoulder the bike. (European cyclocross professionals generally seem to follow their country’s practice, with French and Belgian racers using the “left – front” setup.)
          Yet others point to the fact that most riders are right-handed, and the front brake is the most useful one, so using your stronger hand to operate it makes sense. Except that a good brake shouldn’t require huge amounts of hand power…

          What about the advantages of the “left – front” way of setting up your brakes? One advantage in the U.S., where we ride on the right side of the road, is that you can come to a stop and hold on to a railing or post with your right hand, while your left hand still operates the front brake. Being right-handed, I also often use my right hand to shift, eat or take photos, so it’s nice to have my free hand ready to brake with the more important brake.

          It seems that there are pros and cons for each setup, but none are so great that they persuasively make one setup better than the other. It really comes down to personal preference.
          I thought that was interesting although he is clearly biased to left hand front, likely from that being what he's always done - just like myself with right hand front brake... although from a moto standpoint I think makes sense to use one brain hemisphere for power/brakes and the other for transmission and arguably it requires more coordination for the power/brake application... yes, yes on our bikes we end up with the rear brake on the "other" side but front brake is where all the action is baby!

          When he says "Yet others point to the fact that most riders are right-handed, and the front brake is the most useful one, so using your stronger hand to operate it makes sense. Except that a good brake shouldn’t require huge amounts of hand power…" where I disagree strongly with this point is that the dominant hand isn't so much the more powerful hand but perhaps better described as the more coordinated hand

          Comment


          • Dshue
            Dshue commented
            Editing a comment
            I've always heard the front brake is on the left here because we ride on the right side of the road and consequently need to signal with the left arm. If the front brake were on the right then we would only have the use of front brakes while signaling. Something that isn't an issue on a motorcycle.
            It works the same in the UK, the ride on the left and signal with their right hand so their front brake is on the right.

          #10
          BTW many electric motos that have no clutch get rid of the foot operated rear brake and move it to the left handlebar where the clutch used to live

          Comment


          • Retrorockit
            Retrorockit commented
            Editing a comment
            There are more ways to get it wrong than get it right.

          #11
          "
          Retrorockit commented
          I like 26" for street riding. Low inertia for takeoffs, and quick handling. That's exactly the kind of bike I like to to convert. Is this for trail riding or street?

          Both...I don’t see myself getting crazy, but I’m sure it’ll see some trails, lots of pavement getting to DNR and Forest Service roads. Olympic National Park/Forest and State DNR land make up virtually everything south of our place, and extending at least 20 or 30 miles in either direction...so I have a lot to explore. Also thinking maybe a trailer at some point for grocery runs down the mountain.

          Comment


          • Retrorockit
            Retrorockit commented
            Editing a comment
            There was a long thread about brakes here. As usual AZ and I disagree about almost everything LOL
            https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...t-cable-brakes
            An E bike with a loaded trailer going down the mountains is the most demanding brake application possible.Do your homework.
            I would maybe look into a big ass cable brake on the rear, and front hydro to hedge your bets on that situation.

          #12
          Originally posted by AZguy View Post
          Yup, just like moto... they are very inexpensive too, the grip cost a lot more =]

          I don't use the throttle much - just for fast varying terrain or other instant response situations... otherwise I just rely on pedal-assist

          I have it so ingrained in my head that the power brake (front) is on the left that there's no way I'm going to be good with it on the wrong side... I'd just be grabbing handfuls of rear brake... for some reason the transition of rear from right foot to left hand isn't an issue but then again I've been riding bicycles like this for more than four decades
          I’m sure I’ll be doing a bit of experimenting with control layout...getting back on the bicycle I thought the brake control layout might be an issue, but muscle memory took over and all was well. It took much longer to get used to the trigger shifters, and I never adapted to the twist shifter on my wife Expedition.

          Comment


          • AZguy
            AZguy commented
            Editing a comment
            Long time ago I got a twist shift when they first were all the rage but didn't care for it much - vastly prefer my present trigger, a shimano M8000. I've got the non-indicator version and it moved to the left side with zero issues - the triggers are above the bar now which I prefer since I'm often riding with just my heels or even just proximal knuckles on the grips... does as many as four downshifts (up to the larger cogs) and up to two upshifts in one press and it's super easy to get to whatever gear I'm looking for instantly

          • Retrorockit
            Retrorockit commented
            Editing a comment
            I don't like my shifter rationing my downshifts for me so it's gripshift for me.Same for the Rapid Rise stuff. I can drop 5 gears with the rear wheel locked up and be in the attack position.Next time I pedal the shift will happen.Not the hot setup for climbing. Full power upshifts are not as good. I like Rapid Rise for 1x setups. But w/o the gripshift it makes no sense.
            My LBS owner knew what I was doing when he saw the NOS Rapid Rise Revoshifter and sold me a Rapid Rise XTR mid cage derailer for $30. Not that anyone else would be looking for one!
            Last edited by Retrorockit; 4 weeks ago.

          #13

          73Eldo commented

          Note in my case its the magnets inside the bag so most of the work is done by the magnets, bag is mostly to make it look less like a battery and a backup for when the bike ends up on its side for some reason because that will pop it off the magnet. It seems to take about the same amount of force to knock it off the magnet as it does to bruise some ribs if you are looking for data points.


          I’ll be hoping to avoid those data points... :-) ...that said, after almost 30 years on the VFR geared up in a full face helmet, earplugs, tall motorcycle boots, gloves and Aerostich Roadcrafter suit...I’m not sure where my comfort zone will be on a long outing. As a teen, standard gear was barefoot, cutoffs, tank top, sunglasses and a fastback frisbee tucked into the front spokes, and I was good to go for the day.

          Comment


            #14
            "
            Retrorockit commented

            There was a long thread about brakes here. As usual AZ and I disagree about almost everything LOL
            https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...t-cable-brakes
            An E bike with a loaded trailer going down the mountains is the most demanding brake application possible.Do your homework.
            I would maybe look into a big ass cable brake on the rear, and front hydro to hedge your bets on that situation.


            That’d be an empty trailer going down...full of groceries going back up. :-) Thanks for the link though!! I’ll check it out...

            Comment


              #15
              One more question... I received my Luna Wolf V2 52v, and one of their Advanced Luna 300W chargers. I checked the battery voltage with my multimeter and it was at 47.8v, roughly 35%. Knowledge Base recommends storing at around 50%. It also recommends charging a new battery to a full 100% several times to balance the cells? Since I’m waiting for the 68-73mm BBSHD to return to an in-stock status, I’m thinking I should test the charger by hooking it up to the battery and charging it to about 50% for the time being...or would it be better to do the full 100% charge and let it sit?

              Any input would be appreciated...at the price of the new battery, I definitely want to do everything I can to maximize the longevity of the battery.

              Thanks!!

              Comment


              • Dshue
                Dshue commented
                Editing a comment
                If you don't know how long it'll be before the motor comes in I would only go to whatever Luna recommends for a storage charge. But a month or so at full charge certainly won't harm it.
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