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What happened to my nice 25lb bike??? (new questions)

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    What happened to my nice 25lb bike??? (new questions)

    Finally got the initial disassembly done and started preliminary fitting and arranging. The BBSHD 68mm -73mm fits nicely, Luna Eclipse 42T clears the chainstay, but not by much...with a seemingly good chain line (at least to these rookie eyeballs). I still need to replace the Anderson connector coming off the motor with the XT90-S connector, then connect the throttle and display before I can test run the motor. So...a couple more questions...

    The chairing looks to clear the chainstay by just over 1/32”, is that enough clearance if it maintains that amount throughout the suspension travel? (the markings on the ruler in the pic are in 1/16th inch increments.

    My display attaches snugly to the handlebar, without either of the provided rubber inserts, just wondering if I might need something else to enhance the friction between the plastic clamps and handlebar to prevent if from rotating while riding?

    I’ve got a couple battery operated lights from “Planet Bike” I used for commuting on my Crosstrail, they were fine for the ride through town, but barely adequate coming down the mountain with no street lights. I thought I might try mounting them on my helmet, but need something better on the bike. I’m wondering what suggestions you have for a good lighting, but only occasional night riding?

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    #2
    If it looks like it will clear I would say give it a try. Its not like if it rubs a little things will go horribly wrong. Little paint scuff would not bother me and depending on how often or hard it rubbed I may not even change it.

    Luna should have sent you a short adapter cable to go from anderson to xt90 if it all came from Luna. Check your boxes I kinda remember missing it at least one time. I would start out that way and make sure you are not going to change your mind how you are mounting and routing things. One you are pretty settled then maybe cut out the anderson.

    For a headlight I have a Light & Motion 550 Urban Commuter light. I don't have a ton of experience with other options, I mostly picked this one because it was on sale and I needed something to bump up my cart total to get free shipping. Its got 3 brightness modes and then the supper annoying to everyone flashing mode. It doesn't remember the mode you were on last so you have to cycle through if you were not on bright which is the first step. Flash is the 4th. To turn it off you just hold the button down which is nicer than having to step through all the modes so I guess that is something. I only run it on bright if I am riding fast somewhere that is totally dark. I think in that mode it says 2 hours of run time. Most of the time on streets I run it on the low mode pointed pretty far down so as not to blind people. Mount is a rubber strap that seems to hold well even on the trails and looks like it could handle a pretty fat bar. Micro USB charge port. Seems plenty bright for normal bicycle speed urban stuff. I would say 330 is about the minimum you want if you actually want to be able to see where you are going which is what my headband light is that I use when I do single track in the dark along with the bike mounted light. For streets I don't feel the need to have one on me its just in the woods you often need to look where the bike isn't yet pointed.

    Comment


    • KennVFRidr
      KennVFRidr
      Ebiker
      KennVFRidr commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the comments! Yes, everything came from Luna, and no...no Anderson/XT90 adapter...just an Anderson pigtail with about 14” of wire. Possibly because I had to order stuff as it became available, motor and battery were separate orders...Wolf V2 came with an XT90 pigtail and I snagged several off Amazon along with some wire and crimp connectors, so making the adapter is probably next step.

      I agree with you about the annoying flashing headlight...I refused to run one on my VFRF, but set one bicycle light to flash because of the idiot kids with drivers licenses around here.

    • 73Eldo
      73Eldo
      Giga Member
      73Eldo commented
      Editing a comment
      Separate orders could explain why you didn't get an adapter cable. Also good for you for doing that or else you would be playing the game of 'now that is out of stock' and never get your bike built or end up with stuff that really wasn't what you wanted.

    #3
    Caution: energy may remain within the motor/controller, touch red to earth before touching the main leads in my experience.

    Comment


      #4
      Kenn, I'd say your clearance will be fine looking at that pic. To be totally sure, have you removed one or both shock mounts and cycled the rear wheel/swingarm through its complete arc to check any contact? Your situation looks like it might only occur under full rebound if at all possible even then. The Luna Eclipse is a huge benefit to many Bafang mid-drive setups for chainline. Yours looks great.

      The issue of aggressively tightening the display to the bar, be careful...and not just for the possibility of breaking the mount. I didn't see what display you have, but if it sticks up any above the handlebar...and many do...and you ride off road, you "might" want a little bit of ability for the display to rotate if it is struck with a limb, brush, etc.

      Comment


        #5
        I run 2 different lights partly for different needs and partly for redundancy. The Niterider Swift 500 is a commuter light. Fluted lens for a soft output that doesn't blind on coming traffic, and some side light function. Pocket size, and the strap mount comes off with the light for Rent a Bike situations. The other is an older Niterider Lumina 650. The older ones are longer, and have a clear lens, metal construction, and an obnoxious fast day strobe. Gets respect in traffic during the day, it give the impression that you are going faster than other bikes. Annoys everyone else at night. High output offroad light that's indestructable. If I had one light it would be the Swift series. But I already owned the Lumina and won't leave home without it. Niterider Cherry Bomb is a good rear light, and has some reflector function built in which many others don't, just in case you forget to turn it on. Helmet lights tend to blind drivers and pedestrians, I save them for the woods. Also the unusual motion of a helmet light in traffic can surprise drivers, especially drunks, and cause true mayhem..............
        Retrorockit
        Giga Member
        Last edited by Retrorockit; 06-29-2021, 07:03 PM.

        Comment


          #6
          Next question...speed sensor magnet location? I understand the magnet needs to pass within 2 mm of the sensor...but what about the distance outward from the hub/inward from the rim, doesn’t that matter too???

          Also...I’ve never used a hot glue gun, and can’t recall when I've used any epoxy...wondering about cleanup and/or rework/repair. If something needs replacement...will I be carving, sanding or grinding old glue/epoxy, is one easier to use than the other? Or will it be time for lever or housing replacement???

          And...thanks again for sharing your thoughts and experiences...

          Comment


          • hoggdoc
            hoggdoc commented
            Editing a comment
            As for magnet location I believe the typical install places the magnet on a outermost spoke, then adjust the pickup on the chainstay to the proper clearance.

            The question about clean up when using hot glue and epoxy really depends on what surfaces you are using it on. More porous surfaces will be harder with most epoxies. Hot glues generally can be removed pretty easily as it is not meant to be a permanent fixative.

            When it comes to any craving or machining of either of the two again it depends on what it has been used for. Hot glue is not made to be used in that manner, same with some epoxies. JB Weld and similar products can be machined, but are never as good as the original materials.

            Hope that helps, Oh BTW on the procket to chainstay clearance, maybe some spacers could be used between the sprocket and it mounting point to give a little more clearance.

          #7
          Originally posted by KennVFRidr View Post
          Next question...speed sensor magnet location? I understand the magnet needs to pass within 2 mm of the sensor...but what about the distance outward from the hub/inward from the rim, doesn’t that matter too???
          Makes no difference really

          Closer to the hub the magnet will pass slower but there are folks that have magnets on the rims that work just fine - best just to find the best place from a mechanical standpoint

          Comment


            #8
            Speed sensor only having a single magnet only gets one 'count' per rev so it doesn't matter where it is. If there was more than one magnet then the distance would become a factor. If you were thinking you were going to be on rougher surfaces having it on the left side may be better so the chain isn't slamming into it. I'm using a 3d printed bracket that doesn't have the depth adjustment so I just place the sensor where ever gets me the proper distance from the magnet. The stock bracket is kinda flimsy and doesn't take much of a hit to knock out of alignment or completely break it.

            Hot glue is the way to go if you want to easily be able to remove it. Hot glue you can often remove intentionally or even accidentally without tools or re heating. For sure warming it up with a heat gun or even hair dryer will get it soft enough to easily remove the object plus you can then just rub off the residue of the glue often times not leaving any signs that it was there. You can likely buy a hot glue gun kit that comes with the gun and some glue for under $10 that will work fine for little projects like this. Dark colored parts on a hot day in the hot sun could get you in the temp range that will make hot glue soft. I don't think the parts would just fall off at that point but they would be more likely to fall off on a hot day sitting in the sun than a 70* day in the shade.

            Epoxy if done right is more like welding, permanent. Sure it can be ground/cut off but that could cause damage to the object and what it was mounted to and even after removed is going to show signs it was there. Some epoxies do have solvents and some don't. Some of those solvents may also attack the objects and some not.

            In the last year twice I have managed to knock the square magnets off the top of my brake lever on one of my bikes. Once time was after hitting a tree so who knows maybe epoxy would not have helped there and the other time it just went missing. Where they are I think sometimes I flick em with my finger when I am grabbing for the lever quickly. If I got the smaller round stock magnets like I have on my other bike with the identical levers I would not likely have the problem. Maybe even if I mounted them under the levers rather than on top they would be fine too. I went on top because I thought the hot glue would ever work so I just wanted quick and easy. 2nd bike I went under because it looks better.

            Comment


              #9
              There is very strong 2 sided tape at automotive stores used for attaching automotive trim to cars. 3M brand has red plastic tear off coating. Sticks well and can be scraped off (with some difficulty) if needed. Medical supply adhesive remover can get residue off of paint.
              Retrorockit
              Giga Member
              Last edited by Retrorockit; 07-11-2021, 09:52 AM.

              Comment


              • AZguy
                AZguy
                Giga Member
                AZguy commented
                Editing a comment
                +1

                3M VHB tape is incredibly strong - they use it for windows in aircraft, etc. and it's considered permanent but you can still get it off with solvents, etc. They make it many flavors (I think I was using 4929). It's expensive but likely best stuff going. I used it when I had the brake sensors and I did manage to knock a sensor off but I hit it with a tool or something.

                Others have use sugru (you can make this at home with cornstarch and RTV)

                I quit using the brake sensors. On hydraulic brakes they are really hard to get in just the right place and with mine I couldn't find a place where they would work with both old pads and new pads. I don't like a sensor on the rear regardless (there are times I want to throttle and brake at the same time and my throttle is on the right as is my front brake a la moto) but definitely appreciate the value on the front. Just too much hassle and the benefit just didn't offset the hassle for me...

                YMMV

                I used it when I had the brake sensors and I did manage to knock a sensor off but I hit it with a tool or something

              #10
              AZguy sez...

              >"I quit using the brake sensors. On hydraulic brakes they are really hard to get in just the right place
              >and with mine I couldn't find a place where they would work with both old pads and new pads. I don't
              >like a sensor on the rear regardless (there are times I want to throttle and brake at the same time and
              >my throttle is on the right as is my front brake a la moto)"

              I have wondered about the sensitivity of the brake sensors as related to changes in adjustment from pad use.

              So, with absolutely zero experience on an electric bike so far...(getting close though)...I don’t have actual operational sequence pictured in my head...I guess I never thought it all the way through yet???

              My current understanding is that I would turn system on at ON/OFF switch, display comes on, I start pedaling/turn throttle and motor kicks in... Does it then stop providing forward motion when I stop pedaling/roll off throttle...letting me coast at that point? I think I understand that the shift sensor once installed, will momentarily depower the motor allowing a smoother shift...??? Are the brake sensors simply to smooth/ease operation?...meaning I could go test ride without brake sensors or shift sensor?

              Should I be feeling the same way I felt on Oct 10th 1992 when I sat on my brand new VFR750f for the very first time...preparing to pull away from the curb, without having ridden any motorcycle for more than13 years...never owned one, and never rode anything bigger than 400cc???

              Comment


                #11
                KennVFRidr
                Ebiker
                KennVFRidr

                The brake sensors cut all motor power whether PAS or throttle as soon as the sensor reads you are pulling on the brake - either one if you have both installed... power will get restored once you release the brake(s)

                Nothing like a moto! Think of it this way... it's like whenever the brake light on the moto is on, it's as if it would cut the throttle and disengage the clutch until the brake light went off... for the most part might not be a problem.... but for me.... yuck!

                Like I mentioned for me the *only* point of it at all is for downshifting when slowing.. since we still need to pedal to execute the downshift the PAS will keep applying power while you are slowing... although the gear sensor will cut it when you shift there's usually more pedaling than shifting when slowing and I don't really want to stop pedaling, just reduce the force so the bike will slow and I can downshift... but it's really not that big a deal to not have the sensors...

                Other than that I think the brake sensors are useless and in fact there are times when I do want to brake while applying a little bit of throttle, that's why I ended up with only one on the other hand from the throttle hand... but they're such a hassle to setup properly on hydraulics I just don't see any point in them whatsoever...


                It's probably different if you come entirely from an MTB background... to me it's like torque sensors... can't stand them but even though I've been riding MTB's since the early 80's I have orders of magnitude more saddle time on motos... I think the torque sensors appeal to the MTB guys but I not only don't see the point in them, I don't like them one bit...

                I think some of the newer guys are concerned they might accidentally throttle while at a stop so the brake sensor will prevent that but that's never, not once, been an issue for me...

                Comment


                #12
                It's interesting to see the preferences on the brake sensors. People ride differently and in different places. I ride an MTB with a BBSHD on decently challenging trails. My first ride, I thought I'd try to ride without the brake sensors. Even with good programming, it's not a very smooth and reliable power cutoff in tight spots where you're carrying speed into a tight corner or preparing to tackle an obstacle.

                On the other hand, you actually want power on tap quickly or even constantly in many instances while you're going around a corner or tight spot. So, what to do? For one, an MTB does have cranks that continue to work even when the motor shuts off. However, if you want the stronger power of an appropriate level PAS, just disable one of the brake sensors. In my case I disabled the front brake. I can mildly ride the front brake into and during a corner if necessary and continue with PAS...balancing traction and power rather effectively. Then at the first second of opportunity as the corner ends, you have full PAS while cranking on the pedals. It's a hoot. It's much like AZ mentioned in his post in his reference to a dirt motor. You really don't want the engine to die when you're riding the brakes and still applying some throttle. And while our emtbs don't have a clutch, the next best thing is to feather the brake while pedaling and keeping the PAS engaged. Now, one might think the throttle and PAS come back on immediately...and I mean immediately...when you let off the brake with a sensor. They do not. There is the slightest pause before power kicks back in. This is where using one of your brakes that doesn't kill the motor enables constant power with no hesitation in the corner and out of the corner.

                But as I mentioned at the first, this is different for different people. I think a lot of dirt motor people will get my preference here perhaps more readily than MTB-only riders, but it still comes down to enabling, disabling, or otherwise the brake sensors according to one's preference.

                Comment


                • AZguy
                  AZguy
                  Giga Member
                  AZguy commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Regen braking adds a whole different dimension into the mix for sure

                  I think in that case I'd like the rear brake to activate the regen but have the front brake do nothing with the motor - it would be closer to a mot I guess. I haven't ridden a sur-ron [yet] - doesn't just releasing the throttle provide some regen braking?

                  I used to use the rear brake a la faux clutch but found there were times when I wanted to apply just the barest throttle and still be able to use the rear brake as a moderator and it just didn't well with a BBS until I disabled the rear brake

                • hoggdoc
                  hoggdoc commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Actually street/track riders should get your point as well. If you ever have used a technique called trail braking you understand why cut the power while applying brakes would be a very bad move. I think your idea of leaving the brake sensor off the front brake make a lot of sense.

                • AZguy
                  AZguy
                  Giga Member
                  AZguy commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Nowadays I just leave them both off

                  In the end decided if I was on a moto would I want it to disengage the clutch and drop throttle every time the brake light came on?

                #13
                Finally did a couple quick test rides...Yea!! I posted a write-up in the Builder Gallery section...looking forward to getting the battery balanced, and seeing what kind of distance I can get.

                Thanks again for all the input!!

                Comment


                  #14
                  Originally posted by KennVFRidr View Post
                  Finally did a couple quick test rides...Yea!! I posted a write-up in the Builder Gallery section...looking forward to getting the battery balanced, and seeing what kind of distance I can get.

                  Thanks again for all the input!!
                  So was the first ride like this:

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                  Comment


                  • AZguy
                    AZguy
                    Giga Member
                    AZguy commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Generally the most difficult part of getting the cable up is getting the drivers loaded so you can talk to the cable... usually the rest is pretty easy... there a re a lot of parameters and most are reasonably straightforward - some can be confusing

                  • KennVFRidr
                    KennVFRidr
                    Ebiker
                    KennVFRidr commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I finally managed to get into the Advanced Settings section in my display and set the PAS to 9 levels...(correct password helped)...and 9 seems like it will be much more reasonable after a brief test. Should get out on a better ride tomorrow... I’ll be waiting for the programming cable to come in...but also thinking it might be worth spending on the EggRider just to skip cranking up the Windows machine.

                  • AZguy
                    AZguy
                    Giga Member
                    AZguy commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Getting winblows drivers working has provided hours of entertainment... er frustration... for some!

                  #15
                  Kenn, it's well worth doing the program deal. There are different sources for "how-to", but as a total greenhorn back in April when I started programming mine, I used this guy's youtube tutorial. He was more detailed in his step-by-step, almost baby steps, than many others by taking you through the whole process of even where to get every element of the process. It's worth looking at wherever you decide to source your info.

                  Bafang BBS01, BBS02 and BBSHD Reprogramming - YouTube

                  Everyone's brain functions a bit differently, but for me this one was almost foolproof. This tutorial is how to get set up and into the programming...not as much step-by-step suggestions for specific settings. I think there are tons of sources and opinions available for that. I think he explains the process and functions in very good, understandable terms.
                  TNC
                  Giga Member
                  Last edited by TNC; 07-28-2021, 11:22 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Retrorockit
                    Retrorockit
                    Giga Member
                    Retrorockit commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I like written material too. It leaves me lots of class time to draw Ed Roth style hotrod cartoons.

                  • KennVFRidr
                    KennVFRidr
                    Ebiker
                    KennVFRidr commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Baby steps work for me...just need to snag the cable.

                  • KennVFRidr
                    KennVFRidr
                    Ebiker
                    KennVFRidr commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I can usually watch the video, if done well, and benefit by getting familiar with the given subject...but trying to follow along and accomplish anything while viewing is difficult at best. A well organized .pdf would be ideal...
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