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Mid drive cassettte zip tie mod.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    All the experts seem to agree that Ebikes can only shift one gear at a time. Shimano, Box, Electrifybike.com.
    So obviously I'm no expert.

  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    TBH I never looked at them. I haven't heard anyone say that they do. I had this on Endless Sphere with 4K views, every negative comment you can imagine, but not that one.
    As a bicycle mod it's been around off and on for quite a while.

  • 73Eldo
    replied
    Does anyone know if any factory built mid drive E bikes work like the zip tie mod?

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  • 73Eldo
    commented on 's reply
    I have black zip ties. Black spokes. Black hub. Black rims. Black tires. I don't think anyone would notice my zip tie. Most people would just assume that is how a mid drive works.

  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I developed this mod on a cross chained bike that would drop the chain any chance it got.Butt if the derailleur can pull the slack out of the chain all the way around it should work OK. If the zip tie breaks every now and then w/o a chain issue either a little longer chain, or a friction drive setup should cure that. After the chain drops were sorted out I haven't had to touch it with the friction drive. But it's so stealth there is no yellow zip tie to show it off any more.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 08-29-2023, 09:23 AM.

  • 73Eldo
    replied
    I finally got my new clutch derailleur installed and got one good ride in. So far so good, no chain drops. The drops started happening in one stretch of trail at my local MTB park after I did the zip tie mod. 3 years of riding before with no drops so it had to be the mod that made it happen. I have had zero issues with the mod on my street bike but it doesn't get banged around like this bike does going off road. Figured since clutch derailleurs seem to be 'the' thing for off road I would give it a shot since I really like having the mod. I rode pretty hard and fast a couple laps and no issues at all in that stretch or anywhere else on the trails.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I spun off this chain guide into it's own thread for those who aren't up to the zip tie mod.It wouldn't hurt to do this first.
    ​ ​​ This chain guide came to be out of another DIY project here The Mid Drive Cassette Zip Tie Mod. This guide solved some problems peculiar to that mod. But also solved some more common ones too. AS you can see form the flat 50t chain ring and no Wide/ Narrow feature this bike has chain line issues. It might have been a

  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    Without the chain guide I never could have considered using the 2 lowest gears in traffic.

  • Retrorockit
    replied
    Here is my explanation for the broken zip ties w/o chain drop. In one place on my ride home I would take off in 2nd gear instead of 3rd. To get there under braking I would dump it all the way down to 1st and back up to 2nd gear. No need to count, and I can't see the shift indicator at night anyway. The down shift to first put the chain right at it's limit because i had sized the chain the usual way. When the downshift tried to push slack in the top of the chain the chain got tight and broke the zip tie. A 4t smaller cassette = 1 whole chain link. With the 36t I could downshift all the way to 1st, and take off from there. No broken zip tie. With the friction drive this isn't a problem any more, and I'm back to the 11-40t cassette
    I had a spare wheelset with an XT hub. So i could find out the O ring size off the bike. The labor to install the friction drive mod was the same as installing the new casssette. I liked the custom 11-36t cassette OK but it took, 3 cassettes to make one out of parts. When I found out the XTR derailleur could run 40t with a B screw mod in stead of an extended hanger that sealed the deal.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 08-21-2023, 06:58 AM.

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  • Retrorockit
    replied
    The zip tie mod is working without incident. Long rides, deep water, whatever. It's just there. It no longer has a zip tie to break. Just shift it like an IGH.
    I also lost the key to my Pinhead locking skewer, seatpost and headset. it was missing for over a week, then I found it. But the Tannus Armor, and the Stan's in the front tube are working flawlessly too. If I had a flat I would have been SOL without that key. The Shimano ICE rotors are quiet and smooth. I had registered my key# with Pinhead, but disappointed with no response from their tech support. I ordered another lock set for my XC bike (keyed the same) so I can ride it into town and have an extra key. This bike seems to be in a good place as far as being a reliable vehicle. The BBSHD was always that way. Getting the rest of the bike to catch up took some doing. The zip tie mod took some sorting out, and there is still some question about hard offroad use. But I think the potential is there for that too.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I have a couple of the clutch type derailers sitting around. But I'm still rockin' the 8 speed Rapid Rise/ Revoshifter setup. My flat 50t chain ring probably does need the cogged roller chain guide I'm running anyway.So I'm not going to try the clutch derailer on this bike. So thanks for the feedback on this for offroad use
    . Intend sells an $800 FFS crankset for that purpose with a free zip tie included.
    Integrated ratchet mechanism Ratchet system with 47 engagement points Highly optimized construction for hardcore applications … Continued

    Expensive, noisy as hell. But intended for hard use. We already have everything but the zip tie. And ours is silent too.

  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    I really like my M8000 (deore xt)

  • 73Eldo
    replied
    On my last ride I didn't drop the chain but the zip tie broke at some point. I did stop by the bike shop today and ordered a new Deore clutch derailleur to see if that helps. With my membership card discount it was only $40 so a very reasonable fix if it solves my occasional drop issue.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    The difference between the zip tie mod (fail safe) and the friction drive (fault tolerant) is that I can run my chain right at the limit of derailer travel and the friction drive will slip if the chain gets a little tight, the tiny zip tie would break and need to be replaced even though there was no derailment happening.
    With a vintage Rapid Rise XTR mid cage derailleur, and a modern 11-40t cassette on a stock hanger I'm right on the edge. So if you just want to give it a try the zip tie mod is cheap and easy. In the long run the friction drive is better and there is no real reason not to start off with it.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 07-21-2023, 08:28 AM.

  • Retrorockit
    replied
    I've had the motor back together for a while now with the much improved B version of the rotor. I used the California Ebike conversion bearing so I didn't have to replace the stator and the cover also. it's working just fine. The friction drive version works the same as the zip tie mod. The cogged chain guide is smooth and quiet ( I can hear the chain rub in the 2 cross chained lowest gears, this lets me know when I've downshifted more than i need to). The Terra Cycle chain guide is rock solid now. it seems I like to hoist the front wheel in the first few gears every now and then. I don't think this will bother the newer shaft. I already have the PEEK gear in there so that should be pretty solid also.. So this mod is a permanent part of the bike now, and i think it's how I'm going to build from now on. I can't think of any reason to bother with an IGH hub when a derailleur can shift like this.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 07-21-2023, 08:14 AM.

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