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Mid drive cassettte zip tie mod.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    It shouldn't be too had to adjust. It's the same as a Moto.

  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I was already downshifting w/o pedaling due to the Rapid Rise setup. I actually have to be more careful now because before the chain wasn't moving, now it is. I know you're running a Wide Narrow ring. But it can't deal with the vertical slack this can produce. A roller guide at TDC seems to work about as well as anything else, Definitley quieter. Your modern clutch type derailer should help a lot.

  • AZguy
    replied
    Ok so I'm thinking this might be a way to make the bike even stealthier at night by silencing the rear hub freewheel and it does a good job of that since the pedal freewheel is nearly silent... cool

    The only other advantage I found for my riding (yes! we have very different riding terrains and styles Click image for larger version  Name:	wink.gif Views:	0 Size:	439 Bytes ID:	158304) is that it eliminates the only thing I ever found brake sensors even remotely useful for (we already know what I think of them lol) which is downshifting while slowing since you can downshift while not pedaling which I have to admit is a *very* hard thing for me to get used to....

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  • Retrorockit
    replied
    I got some of the bigger recumbent chain rollers to play with. Unfortunately the new size put the clamp right where the bolt for my motor torque arm is. I also got the nice chain keeper that clamps onto the head of the 8mm Allen bolt they use for shafting. I could get it together ,but it put pressure on the chainring. This turned out to be the wrong thing to do. Adding drag there increases slack in the top run of the chain. Adding the chain keeper pin is even worse. When the chain hits that it put so much slack in from drag that I saw the chain hanging down between the wheel and the chain stay at high speed downshifts. I have a center stand that lets me see what's going on. My home made roller guide is better than I thought it was. I've ordered an offset mounting clamp they offer. I use my old clamp for the first attempt so no waste there. But the non roller guides may not be the solution for this purpose. The M9 derailer is looking like it may be the answer by increasing the tension in the whole system. But I ordered a smaller roller guide also that looks better than the one I have. It has deeper narrower sidewalls, and an O ring to center the chain.
    Here's their small affordable idler with 6mm bearing. This might be all it takes. My Blackspire roller with tapered sidewalls does let the chain out every now and then.
    Made from Delrin Rubber O-Ring keeps chain centered Bearing with 6mm ID 1.75in (44.5mm) outer diameter This is the idler we use on our chain tensioners. They are handy in other return side applications too. For example, older Vision bikes used something close to this for return chain management and these idlers can be used as a return idler in those and similar applications.

    Many of Terra Cycle (t-cycle.com) brackets stop at 1.5" clamp size. A couple of them come in 36mm. I suppose this is for 34.9mm seat tube +paint. It should shim down if needed with some aluminum duct tape.
    This is the 8mm adjustable offset clamp for the high end 8mm rollers.
    Clamp on Idler Mounts are great for letting you mount idlers where you really want them, and for tensioning timing chains on tandems. If you have a bike/trike where the chainline has just never been right, or you are changing to a hub gear drivetrain, or need to simply and reliably tension a tandem timing chain, or you


    Anyway this mod is very sensitive to anything that adds drag to the top run of the chain. I already had a roller guide before I tried this mod. It seems to be the way to go.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I've also added a Sun Race M9 derailer to my arsenal. The very heavy tension spring will probably pull out the slack all the way around the front chain wheel. But I want to upgrade my guide first, because putting the chain back on with that monster spring might be a chore.This will do away with my vintage Rapid Rise setup. I will need to change shifter, and get rid of the extended derailer hanger, so for me it's a project. For most others just a derailer swap. But I already have my 8 speed gripshifts to take advantage of the better shifting this mod provides.

  • Retrorockit
    replied
    I've done some looking around to improve my (home made) top chain guide issue. The recumbent trike guys do a lot with chain guides and idlers, they use the 8mm Allen bolt for a shaft format.
    Terra Cycle seems to have a good selection of parts for this.
    A quality idler system is a key component in managing a long chainline, and nobody knows more about long chainlines than riders of recumbent bikes. At T-Cycle, we believe in a good balance of quality in all aspects of a drivetrain, from crank to cogset. Long chaintubes and plastic idlers can waste your energy with inef


    I edited in a new link here. The T-Cycle idler clamp wasn't strong enough for BBSHD service. Their battery clamp is, but needs an adapter plate made.
    The heaviest duty clamp we offer!  It's the clamp that holds the Battery Mounts, the SPRING Mini Fairing Mount and the WINTR Fairing Mount in place!  Sporting twin 6mm bolts, this 5/8" thick beast stays where you put it and holds what you need it to hold. Made in an ever-growing list of sizes, there's a clamp for nearl

    Last edited by Retrorockit; 03-09-2023, 05:50 AM.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I made mine with the roller right at he top of the chainring, but I think it needs to happen sooner with this setup. It was OK for side to side from chainline, but the flapping up and down form actual slack seems to need a different solution. I haven't had any chains escaping form the derailer so I think that's the way to go.
    Now that I have the shifting control the zip tie offers, I might be able to give up the Rapid Rise and try a more modern derailer.
    Now that I'm looking into the toothed chain idler question some more it seems there are lots of choices in the trike community with the 8mm bearing size I'm already using. One source mentioned that toothed idlers were preferred for drive side use. It looks like I can just buy an idler and flip the seatpost calmp to the rear and have something better.
    Established in 1974, Hostel Shoppe leads the way in providing recumbent trikes and bikes to cyclists across the nation since the early 90's.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 12-01-2022, 08:08 AM.

  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I've been riding with 2 zip ties. No problem because of having 2 of them. The breakaway still works. I think my home made chain guide could be better. Instead of a roller that vibrates when it touches the back side of the chain I may do something with a derailer idler or 2 that can hold the chain w/o noise or vibration. But I'll give the more modern derailer a try first.
    I did get a Sunrace M9 derailer in. All metal, very heavy spring, and a clutch. Nice large metal sprockets with spokes to lighten them up. I'll give this a try, maybe it has enough tension to pull the slack out all the way around the front freewheel.
    I'll have to remove the Rapid Rise XTR setup and go with an SRAM Attack, or Rocket grip shifter But this has native support for 40t cassette cogs. So no hanger extension needed.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 11-30-2022, 11:03 PM.

  • Retrorockit
    replied
    I broke another zip tie. No idea why. They usually last a month or so, and I knew what happened. So this time I installed 2 of them. My first roadside installation. The tweezers are the right tool for this. It was long ride into strong headwinds, But I don't see what that has to do with the zip tie mod.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    The only noise mine makes is the chain whirring at 30mph when I dump it into lower gears. When that sound stops I know the zip tie broke.
    I don't HAVE to dump 5 gears at 30mph w/o pedaling, I can do it later, but I could do it before, so it is an issue for me. When I'm dropping just a gear or 3 for turns this hasn't been an issue. Just top speed to 0 seems to be the situtaion.But that's exactly when I have other things going on.

  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I'm looking into upgrading my homemade chain guide. It's so flat here I have no relevant offroad experience.
    I did notice the BBSHD has a circle of bolt holes on the back of the gear case. They're small, but plenty of them. I'm surprised no one offers a chain guide kit. Of course no one would plan on my 50T ring so I would be on my own there anyway.
    This can drop a chain with no bouncing around. So a bulletproof chain guide would be a big plus. I'm asking at MTBR about this.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 11-06-2022, 07:32 AM.

  • 73Eldo
    replied
    I have got a few rides in on my modded street bike and I'm getting used to the different noises and not having to pedal and shift. Have not yet modded or even ridden my off road bike yet but hopefully that one won't have any issues because having one you can shift and one you can't could cause issues remembering which bike you are on. Only reason it may not work is off road there is a lot more bouncing around so chain drops could be an issue.

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  • Retrorockit
    replied
    I ordered some 8mm steel rod to use the original chain guide end instead of the roller guide. I think it might work better at keeping the chain down on the chainring. I adjust the roller so it isn't turning all the time. Maybe the other one will be better. The long 8mm bolt through the roller guide was just so easy I went with that setup. Anyway the breakaway feature has been tested and is working, Now I'll see if I can improve on it so that doesn't happen any more..

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    The single small zip tie broke before the chain got too jammed up. Just had to roll the bike back a couple inches to clear the chain and rode away. Didn't get my hands dirty.

  • Retrorockit
    replied
    Oh dear I broke another zip tie. It happened at the same place it broke last time. It's my fault for dropping down 5 gears at 30mph. This is an old habit of mine. Before the zip tie i could drop 5 gears and the shift wouldn'y happen until I pedaled it into gear just before I stopped with the brakes still on.. That's the Rapid Rise derailer method. With the zip tie the shift happens at 30mph and pushes the chain forward too fast. It got stuck in the chain guide and the zip tie broke as planned. I just need to do my shifting a little later in the stopping process. I need to match the shifts to the bike speed a little better.
    I tend to do this when going from full speed to a dead stop at a crosswalk situation. The bike works just fine with the broken zip tie. Maybe this will solve the broken zip tie mystery.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 11-03-2022, 09:01 PM.

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