Avid BB7 cable disc brakes for E bikes.

[73Eldo]

So as far as you know they always left the avid factory with organics? If so that is what I like the best but they do seem to wear the fastest especially when I don't keep them adjusted. For my street bike I bought some takeoffs from I think a company that was doing E conversions so I would assume I was getting factory pads with those since they were not using any part of the setup. I did get over 1000 mile out of em and if I had done better at the adjustments I could have got more.

I think the last ones I ordered just for stock to pad out an order and get the free shipping may have been semis. Jagwire was one brand and I don't remember what the other was EBC maybe? I don't think I have tried either of those before unless my used bike happened to have those installed.

[Retrorockit]

I don't think organic pads have any place on a converted Ebike. If the Hydro brakes can't accept them that's big clue to me that they just aren't up to it.
I just toss the organic pads. Cleaning the shit off the rotors when they wear out isn't worth the trouble. EBC, Jagwire, SRAM all make pads SRAM is the OEM for these, and EBC make brake pads for cars and MC so they have a choice of compounds. I'm guessing Jagwire buys them from others.
BTW just picked up a pair of the original silver anodized Avid BB7 for $35 /pair used. The mounting washers weren't in the photo so might not be include, but I have those from some BB5s. The TRP Spykes might be coming off of the XC bike.
Maybe not since I hardlined them.

[jaaklucas]

• • Retrorockit commented
    10 hours ago
    . Could you link to those rotors so we can see what sizes are offered. For E bikes with sticky street tries bigger is better.
    • Flag

They are Grimeca DE-160. They seem thicker but I dont have a measuring tool. I got them at my local bike shop but heres a link..

https://bikeoutlet.cz/produkt/170768/brake-rotor-grimeca-160mm-without-bolts?lang=en

[Retrorockit]

If anyone wants to get serious about brake cooling there are temperature indicating stickers from McMaster Carr. Some go up to 300*C/500*F

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/temperature-indicating-labels/

Some of them reset, others are tattletales that stay dark when heated. I have enough wheels and tires to do back to back testing when the ICE rotors get here.

[Retrorockit]

If anyone wants to get serious about brake cooling there are temperature indicating stickers from McMaster Carr. Some go up to 300*C/500*F

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/temperature-indicating-labels/

Some of them reset, others are tattletales that stay dark when heated. I have enough wheels and tires to do back to back testing when the ICE rotors get here.

[Retrorockit]

Not sure what the double post was about?
The ICE Rotors are here. 200mm Avid clean sweep 190g. 203mm ICE rotor 162g. An even ounce less.
The box says E bike rated, Resin or Metallic pads. 2 instruction sheets, one for mech brakes, and one for Hydro. The only difference is the hydro sheet says don't run the 203mm rotor with hydraulic brakes. From the mech brake point of view the brakes are stuck with the leverage of cable brake levers. To get more a bigger rotor is needed.
For the hydros it's more complicated. Leverage is easy to come by, but a bigger rotor runs faster through the pads creating maybe more heat? Anyway I didn't say so before but my thinking was BB7s may be able to use one size bigger rotor than hydros. Shimano thinks so too.

[Retrorockit]

I did the front ICE rotor first I had a 200mm rotor on it, but on closer inspection it was oan a 203mm adapter I did some other work at the same time. Stripped down to bare rim and cleaned it. Replaced the thick flat protected Schwalbe Big Ben Plus with a regular Big Ben. Still E50 rated, but just running tubeless sealed tubes for the front. Took the caliper off and cleaned it and the fork lowers. ran a hard lie up the fork leg for the brake cable to match the rear. Then put the ICE 203 on the rim. The only problem is the alloy spider hits the tab on the inner brake pad. I just snipped it off with the cable cutters. It would have been easier w/o the hardline installed but it worked. It might get interesting next time I change the pads. But I'll burn that bridge when I get to it. Now that I know about the tab I'll try and do something nicer. maybe drill a hole to pull it out with a wire when the time comes. No test drive yet. the motor is still apart. i've been riding my XC bike lately but the E bike parts are starting tri pile up here, so time to do it.

[Retrorockit]

Looking back at the Shimano photos on the last page here, the ICE rotor they show there would not have hit the pad tabs on the BB7s. The alloy spider is much smaller than what they actually sell.

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/deorext-m8000/SM-RT86.html

[Retrorockit]

So jacklucas is running thicker rotors with is BB7s. This opens up the possibility of running the TRP 220x2.3mm rotors with the BB7s. if I had a 29 er I would probably do this. But I haven't tried this myself so you're on your own. TRP uses the Avid brackets so their 220 part should work for BB7s. This would be a +60 bracket.

It's interesting that Shimano says don't run their 203mm ICE rotors with hydro brakes, but TRP runs 220mm with theirs. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Not my problem. So since the ICE 203 isn't for hydros, it must be for BB7s!

Organic pads are stickier at low speeds than Metallic, but fall flat under high speed and high temperature conditions. To get leverage for high speed braking bigger rotors are needed for BB7s since the brake lever ratio is defined. The organic pads would be grabby with the big rotors but still fall flat under hard use. The metallic pads and big rotors work well together at all speeds.

[Retrorockit]

Here's a link to the TRP thick rotors if anyone wants to try this.

https://tektro-usa.com/product/tr-17-rotor-2-3mm-thick/

The advantage would be that it takes longer to heat up a thicker rotor.
Just be aware they were intended for hydraulic brakes that don't flex the rotor. So this would be an experiment with BB7s.

[Retrorockit]

Here is a review on the TRP 220x2.3 rotors form a Seattle cargo bike user.
"Chris
5.0 out of 5 stars Awesome rotors
Reviewed in the United States on May 3, 2022
Verified Purchase
I'm using these on a cargo bike. I found that in the hills of seattle, even standard 200mm brakes didn't stand up well to the heat. These tackle them no problem."
For a slow heavy cargo bike the leverage will win out over the cooling of the higher level Saint rotors.

[AZguy]

So as far as you know they always left the avid factory with organics? If so that is what I like the best but they do seem to wear the fastest especially when I don't keep them adjusted. For my street bike I bought some takeoffs from I think a company that was doing E conversions so I would assume I was getting factory pads with those since they were not using any part of the setup. I did get over 1000 mile out of em and if I had done better at the adjustments I could have got more.

I think the last ones I ordered just for stock to pad out an order and get the free shipping may have been semis. Jagwire was one brand and I don't remember what the other was EBC maybe? I don't think I have tried either of those before unless my used bike happened to have those installed.

73Eldo

I haven't met a hydraulic brake with pot(s) on just one side but that sure as heck doesn't mean they don't exist - does seem hard to understand the wuffo behind that tho

As far as adjusting my hydros I just loosen the caliper mounting bolts enough that it can be moved with some but very little force and then wrap a velcro around the brake lever and tighten the bolts - easy peasy and like you've mentioned not likely to get out of adjustment although I'll take a look at the pad clearance and thickness any time I put a wheel back in

Adjusting my cable pull disks (thankfully just one bike with these) I just loosen bolts similarly as above but then just spin the wheel and make sure the stationary pad is as parallel and as close to the disk without touching as I can get it definitely more time consuming but far from difficult

[Retrorockit]

I get the bike where the ground is back lit, and put the bike on the 2 leg center stand. Look along the rotor and see where there is light between the pad and rotor. Tun that knob. Spin test it.
With BB7s good cable setup pays off. if you squeeze the lever and the cables flap around you should fix that. If you have good pre stretched cables, and compressionless housing then adjust the cable so the brake lever starts to move with the first move of the lever. No slack.No wasted motion. Then start backing off the return screw tension on the caliper until the levers just return. Now you can feel what's going on with the brakes and have good modulation. You just do this once, and don't touch the cable adjusters again. Adjust for wear at the caliper knobs. With organic pads it's a frequent PITA. With metallics about once a week.When I squirt wax the chain I check the brake adjustment. No big deal.

[Retrorockit]

I di dthe rear brake today. Cut the tab off of the inner pad to clear the spider on the ICE rotor. No big deal getting the pads back out. Pull the outer one first and the inner one is easy to grab when it's by itself. Installation, you shove them both in together. It will be a while before I ride this. I'm doing some driveline stuff too. I haven't decided what to try first except the new Shimano 11-40T cassette is in.

[Retrorockit]

I got it running under power and broke in the new pads and rotors. The rear bracket going from 185 to 180mm fit the new rotor OK, but it seems to have moved the caliper forward some too. Hand made hardlines are nice until you change something and have to do it over again.
The front had a different issue. The 203mm Shimano rotor on an Avid 203 F bracket with Avid caliper had the pads running 1/8" in from the edge of the rotor. I had to go find 1/8" thick metal spacers, and some longer bolts to line them up.So the brakes are upand running again.

[Retrorockit]

I've got some miles on these. Others reported these rotors as being flat when new. Mine needed some slight tweaking. Very easy to do on these. Probably easy to bend them too.
Smooth quiet brakes. On fast downhill using the rear brake only it reaches a steady lever pressure and holds it. No indication that it's under any stress at all. These are the entry level ICE alloy rotors, there are a couple steps up from this (Freeza) if going down mountains is on the menu. I picked up a couple more of these for my Softtail XComfort bike. $37 for bare bones 160mm ICE rotors at Cambria.Bikes maybe more for weight savings and bling on that acoustic bike.

[Retrorockit]

I just found a part that has been hard to get for a while. Many Gary Fisher/Trek frames look like they don't have rear disc brake mounts. They need a frame adapter for the Avid disc brake adapter.

https://www.trekofclt.com/product/trek-international-disc-brake-mount-154274-1.htm

These frames have a little bump on the left dropout with a hole for a fender stay. I prefer the IS version to the post mount version for BB7 because you can remove the IS cross bolts and not disturb the caliper centering bolts or cable setup if you're still using flexy cables.

[Retrorockit]

I've got some time on the SRAM BB7 Metallic pads. Very quiet, and hold adjustment well. They own Avid so no surprise that they know what they're doing.
The only bad thing is they scream in the rain for the first stop. Once they get wet they quiet down again. Metallic is supposed to be the wet weather brake pad.

[AZguy]

I've been running SRAM [Guide] metallic (sintered) with the steel plates and find they work great for my riding. There's a little rubbing noise while braking when new but nothing dramatic and once bedded no worries, very quiet except when I lean without any braking I can barely hear a little rubbing sound...

What is this "rain" you speak of?

[Retrorockit]

I've been running the SRAM metallic pads, and the Shimano ICE rotors together for a while. I added them both at the same time. Now that I've had them for a while, I haven't had to adjust the inner pad for light braking noise. This is from one pad hitting first and the rotor being free to ring like a gong. I don't think just the SRAM pads could do this. Maybe the bimetal rotors damp this out? The brake adjustment just seems less fussy with these rotors.

[Retrorockit]

Shimano-", It also results in a longer pad life and substantially quieter braking." I'm finding this to be true.

The next step up from these in the 6 bolt format are the RT905 Freeza rotors. These are in the Saint DH groupset. The RT86 is XT.
Shimano compares these to a 220mm rotor.

• "203 mm RT-MT905 operates 100°C cooler compared with a 220 mm stainless steel disc brake rotor under the most extreme conditions with a more compact design"

What I have right now suits my purpose just fine so I won't be trying these myself.

[Retrorockit]

The BB7s are from era when 26" bikes were normal.With bigger wheels the leverage of a 220mm rotor may be more useful than the heat capacity of the ICE or Freeza rotors. Since my bike s are 26" and I'm a big fan of converting those old garage potatoes, I probably won't be testing this for you.
I might add that SRAM still offers Speed dial brake levers. They are 3 finger, and because SRAM offers Gripshifts they can clear Ebike controls on the handlebars. You're on your own for brake switches. Perfect for AZ who doesn't use them. With good compressionless cable setup they shouldn't cause a travel problem. 4.6 out of 5 rating at MTBR reviews.

https://products.mtbr.com/product/brakes/brake-lever/avid/speed-dial-ultimate.html

[Retrorockit]

I got some feed back from serious DH riders that the 203mm Ice Tech rotors can fail under extreme use, and the 220mm has better leverage.
It seems the ICE Tech rotors can be melted under continuous hard braking. If there is any caliper that could put heat into a rotor until it melts it would be the BB7.
The Shimano finned brake pads, and Frreeza rotors help with this. So for that type of use maybe the whole Shimano Saint brake set would be a good idea.
For my flat urban riding that's not an issue.

[Retrorockit]

Here is a link to the Thorn Raven Twin tandem bike o wners manual. People use these for loaded touring. He has a lot to say about brakes. Some warnings about how hydraulic discs fail.
Pges 12-13 here.

http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornRavenTwinBroHiRes.pdf

He points out that they don't always boil the fluid when braking- but when you let go of the lever then you have nothing!

[Retrorockit]

More bikepacking brake info.

https://bikepacking.com/gear/best-brakes-for-bikepacking/

The exploded view of the Paul Klamper looks like a BB7 clone to me. Priced like high end hydros.

https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/paul_klamper_inners-1515542577271-1i0b1rh13p5k-f3eed79.jpg?quality=90&resize=620,343