restacking cassettes

[Rodney Bush]

From previous experience having a cyc stealth on a 1x10 drive train, the bad chain line on the top sprocket is just bad news. I broke several chains in 900mi over the summer. Quite a PITA!
So with my latest attempt, I have purchased Box2 Prime9 shifter, deraileur and a 12/50 cassette. I restacked it to move the 50 over to the right by 2 cogs for a better chainline. Had the franchise shop put a tubeless on my new rim and got it back properly stacked. They did not even tell me they changed it back. Anyways, my questions about restacking are:
- aren't the stamped cogs designed to fit onto the free hub in only one position so the "engineered profile" (like the little grooves and stuff) allow for proper engagement to the next cog? When you "restack" does it throw this out of alignment? and
- can the limit stop actually be adjusted enough to not allow the deraileur to reach the two innermost cogs?

[73Eldo]

The most common freehub is the Shimano HG (Hyper Glide) and many people make compatibles and there is a differently spaced spline that indexes the cogs onto the feehub.

When you restack them what you are messing with/up is what was HG's original patient was which is the special teeth that help the chain quickly (or I guess Hyperly?) glide to the next cog. If you look carefully at the teeth you will see that there are differently shaped teeth evenly spaced around each cog. In the factory stack these special teeth are spaced specific distances from the special teeth on the next cog to basically help and force the chain to change in a specific spot and distance. A re arranged stack won't have this pre designed spacing so the shifting may not be as smooth and quick as a factory stack. Basically depending on where in the rotation you try to shift you may get lucky and get some hyper action or not and you will be in the pre 80's before they invented the hyper concept.

As far as I know most derailleurs should be able to adjust to lock out 2 gears worth. More maybe not but 2 I would think should be well within the range.


It seems odd that a shop would take the cassette off to change a tire. Only possible thing would be if for some reason they put it into a truing stand maybe to apply the tubeless rim tape? And maybe they have an older stand with wide and fat bike adapters and that mega cassette hits the adapters (like mine does)? But at that point I would think they have some other wheel holding devices that would not require extra work like removing the cassette. Once it was removed I can totally see them not noticing or forgetting how it was stacked when they took it apart since that probably almost never happens.

[Rodney Bush]

Thanks elo... Yea, I even told them I had restacked it to get a better chainline, "just properly torque it please". I guess they thought that was too hokey to send out of their shop.

[Retrorockit]

You might look through the Mid Drive Cassette Zip Tie Mod thread. I had some broken chain issues, and chainline issues that got solved. Partly by the zip tie mod, and partly by using recumbent parts for chain management issues. I'm hitting all my gears at full throttle with a flat chainring on a BBSHD. I haven't restacked anything. It's pretty much what stts said. Guide the chain back on to the top of the chainring. With the zip ties it's fussy about how you do it, but it does work.
I might add that I'm running a gripshift and throwing multiple up and downshifts with or without pedaling. Way beyond what Box can do.

This is not to say that a restack won't work. But there are other options to try.

Maybe the CYC has too much stuff in the way for this to work? But i'ts worth a look. Is this still a CYC?

[Retrorockit]

To be fair Box is a respected offroad vendor and if that's the king of riding you do their stuff is probably right for that purpose.

[Rodney Bush]

I have not tried the "zip tie mod" as I am afraid the free wheeling of the chain cannot overcome the friction or resistance created at the crank and cause the chain to bunch up at the front sprocket. Does that sound like a legitimate concern?
Now that i have put a few miles on it, i am finding that with the12/50, most riding (so far) is in the 3 thru 9 range and 1 and 2 reserved for human power when needed. So I feel like 10 spd is just too many and narrow steps between gears for my ebike and riding style. and now running my 9 spd as a "7spd" with the 2 upper sprockets available to pedal out if battery or motor trouble occurs. Does this sound reasonable?
. thanks

[Retrorockit]

Yes it is a legitimate concern. But even if you don't use the zip tie mod there are some parts listed there to control that chain slack. Those will probably make cassette short stacking not needed. Recumbent bikes have very long chain runs with idlers used to guide the chain.
I was doing the human powered 2 lowest gears on my 8 speed street bike. I also found most 8 speed cassettes too closely geared in the middle gears. Sunrace made one 11-40t with a 18t, 22t 26t progression instead of 18.21.24,28. They're dirt cheap too. you might look there. So I agree with you.
The recumbent drive side 15t idler allows me to use full power in all gears. This is separate from the zip tie mod itself. But allows it to work.
This is the idler I used. I spent a lot of $ trying cheaper ones. This is what worked even with the zip tie mod, 50t flat chainring, and gripshift thrashing.

https://t-cycle.com/collections/idlers/products/sport-power-idler-15

They have other sizes, and bling levels.

https://t-cycle.com/collections/idlers

This is their bracket I used. I needed the furthest hole, the adjusting slot, and the offset clamp feature all useful on my bike. They list it as 36mm. It fits
painted 34.9mm seatpost just fine.

https://t-cycle.com/collections/chain-management-accessories/products/5-hole-vertically-adjustable-clamp-on-idler-mount

This is basically the same as adding a derailer jockey wheel to guide the chain onto the chain ring at the front (stts suggestion), only it doesn't need to move around.
The reason it's needed for the zip ties is it tums with the chain so doesn't add any friction. The cog also allows it to run smooth against the chain unlike smooth rollers.
IMO if you get this chain management installed you can just use all gears. Maybe find a cassette that suits you. After that try the zip tie mod. The mod uses tiny zip ties so if something happens they break and the bike just goes back to normal.

[Retrorockit]

As far as the slack in the chain problem, it's intermittent with each shift. The derailer cage needs a moment to catch up.But as long as the chain is guided back onto the top of the chainring nothing happens.The Box clutch type derailer which is designed for DH riding should have no trouble pulling the slack around the front freewheel. I'm running a vintage XTR Rapid Rise derailer w/o a clutch. So I can throw more downshifts at once with the gripshifter.Hhere are the things my bike doesn't have.
Raer freewheel
Offset chain ring.
Wide/Narrow teeth.
Clutch type derailer.
Good chainline.
Trigger shifter to limit gears shifted.
But I can pull wheels up launches in the 3 lowest gears with a full width cassette. With that 15t idler.