Micro Shift 8 speed Group set

[brothergc]

I am considering the Micro shift Acolyte group set any one have any experience with this group set ?
I am thinking less is more for a ebike . My current Shinmano is finicky , seems to like to skip under load , and is ever needing adjustment . Under regular pedal power is great , looking at changing out the drive train to a more robust 1x8
Thought ? Suggestions ?
Maybe something better ?

https://www.microshift.com/products/groups/acolyte/

I also saw this not a bad deal

https://www.electrifybike.com/collections/drive-train-parts/products/box-four-8s-drivetrain-bundle

[Rodney Bush]

i have the Microshift Advent 9spd on two bikes, one on a BBS02 with about 900mi and one on a BBSHD with about 750mi. I am pleased and have had no issues. Even the wife can ride it and shift normally, very nice. Both of these bikes are primarily ridden on road, towpath or railtrail. the shifters are what i call push/pull as you push with your thumb to get to an easier gear and pull trigger finger to get to a harder gear. Feels pretty normal to me.
i have a 3rd bike i use off road. A Surly Krampus with a CYC X1 stealth. I have fitted with the Box2 Prime 9 with a "single shift" shifter. it works quite well on rough offroad riding and have about 1200mi on the motor, about 400mi on the deraileur.
i purchased the single shift for the Box2 as this was touted "better for ebikes". I prefer the multi shift of the Microshift Advent over the single shiftshift of the Box2 Prime9. (can also be ordered with multishift)
The Box2 Prime9 also has a "push/push where you push thumb to get to easier gear OR push thumb on other lever to get to harder gear. not as intuitive and sometimes I get messed up when switching up bikes.
Although I have no experience with the 8 spd, I am pleased with both products, Microshift or Box I have also considered moving to fewer rear gears, but I got what I got for now and it works great!

[ncmired]

I've also got a bike with the microSHIFT Advent 9 system, here, and have pretty much the same take on it as Rodney Bush

That's not to say that quality 11-speed systems/chains wouldn't hold up as well, or even better, and reduce the gear ratio gaps. My guess is it's more about system quality and chain upkeep.

[Retrorockit]

My drivetrain thoughts and experiments are in another thread.

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/156222-mid-drive-cassettte-zip-tie-mod

This is an older thread that wandered around some.

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/155141-does-a-mid-drive-really-need-a-freewheel

I'm definitely 8 speed wide gear splits for Ebikes. I'm also against the rationing of shifts for Ebikes. In fact I'm Gripshift all the way to eliminate that completely.
I also got on board with Shimano Rapid Rise many years ago. So I'm hoarding vintage Shimano derailers, and Revoshifters just for that Lo Normal experience.
Maybe I don't need it as much as I used to. But it's already there for me. Micro shift makes gripshifters so that's a plus for me. Box is coming from DH and BMX and not so much commuter or Ebikes.
Probably good strong stuff. But the take it or leave it proprietary shifter options don't work for me.

My "usual" setup is Sunrace 11-40 8 speed cassette (zip tied to the spokes). Shimano Rapid Rise XTR mid cage derailer. Extended derailer hanger. Shimano 8 speed Rapid Rise Revoshifter (these are getting scarce). No shift sensor. 50T Surly SS chainring (no offset/no Wide narrow). A Terra Cycle 15t idler on a Terra Cycle battery bracket clamp to keep it together. On a 2004 Gary Fisher Solstice with a BBSHD.
Right now I'm trying a custom Cassettte. 11-12-13-15-18-22-28-36 with no derailer extension.

Everyone needs to find what works best for them. But there are lot's of things you can try outside the BOX.

Sunrace is tied in with Sturmey Archer. They have an M900 wide range clutch type derailer that might be worth a look. Shimano/SRAM compatible wide range like the Acolyte.

[Retrorockit]

Microshift

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/162409-micro-shift-8-speed-group-set

Sunrace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXu2nMlyNAQ

BOX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKSU_J2AbSA&t=63s

[brothergc]

OK , I appreciate all the reply's . I got My Micro Shift Acolyte 8 speed group set ordered
Here is the list :

microSHIFT Acolyte Cassette - 8 Speed, 12-42t, Black, ED Coated
$26.99

microSHIFT Acolyte Rear Derailleur - 8 Speed, Medium Cage, With Spring Lock Chain Retention
$33.99

microSHIFT Acolyte Quick Trigger Pro Right Shifter - 1x8 Speed, Gear Indicator, Black, Acolyte Compatible Only
$24.99

KMC X8.99 Chain: 8-Speed, 116 Links, Silver
$20.70
Total $106.99 plus $ 6.99 shipping .. I could have went cheaper but I sprang for a high end chain . I noticed also that their are 2 shifters available . Their is the Pro, and the less expensive standard model at about half the price at $15.99 .

I went with Micro Shift because I herd some good things about their products. I like it has some what a shift level indicator that I can at least look down get a idea of what gear I am in . Would have been nice if they had bothered to put more the numeral 1 and 8 on the indicator ! At Least a 1-4-8 would have been a nice touch.
Eight speeds should be more then enough , 12-42 tooth wider range seems to me a good idea . With my old 11-34 9 speed I could not tell the much difference in shifting thru the middle range . So I should be shifting less .
So a whole group set for about $100 with chain not a bad deal if it pans out . Stay tuned . :)

[Retrorockit]

Could you tell us more about the bike these are going on, and your riding style, and terrain, weather (windy?) A lot of us here like inexpensive stuff because some of it like chains and cassettes become consumable items.I would add a bottle of Squirt chain wax to the list, and use it often. KMC chains can be hard to get the factory lube off. You may find yourself stuck with oil based lube due to that. I would get a Park CC2 chain checker also. This allows you to put a number on chain elongation. You might be surprised where some new chains start off at.You might look at SRAM chains. The Germans have a higher standard for chain strength than US or Japan etc..
A lot of us here are committed to other setups for one reason or another. But the Microshift stuff is getting good reviews. We would like to know how this works for you.
My gripe with Microshift is they make gripshifters for Shimano/SRAM/ Even Nexus IGH, But don't offer them for their own stuff.

[Mike_V]

Hi. Why did you select the medium length derailleur? Is medium length similar to the Shimano?

[Retrorockit]

Sorry I didn't get back on the Mid cage derailer question.
A mid cage derailer usually has enough capacity for 1x8 drivetrain. The shifter cage tends to bang around less on bumps, and on a 26" bike doesn't hang down as far. Less likely in my case to get torn off if a driver presses me up against a curb. Or if I turn too tight leaned over.

[Retrorockit]

FWIW the wide 8 speed Sunrace cassette has a mid range progression that's different than others, and I happen to like it.....18-22-28-etc.
Others seem to all have ...18-21-24-28. For me the steps are too small so I use the Sunrace, even if I swap out the top or bottom cogs.
Getting back to Microshift I saw they have an MTB groupset for 20" bikes Short cage clutch derailer, and 11-38 cassette. Short throw shifter for small hands too. So there are some options there to explore.

[brothergc]

FWIW the wide 8 speed Sunrace cassette has a mid range progression that's different than others, and I happen to like it.....18-22-28-etc.
Others seem to all have ...18-21-24-28. For me the steps are too small so I use the Sunrace, even if I swap out the top or bottom cogs.
Getting back to Microshift I saw they have an MTB groupset for 20" bikes Short cage clutch derailer, and 11-38 cassette. Short throw shifter for small hands too. So there are some options there to explore.

The Microshift cassette I bought is 12,15,18,21,24,28,34,42) Is this not a good choice ? The Bike is a GT agressor Pro , 17 inch frame, that I built up from the frame up with a BHSD
Riding in Indy city streets and bike trails . some hills nothing crazy

[Retrorockit]

It only costs about $20 to try the Sunrace cassette. I found that I lalways wanted t skip a gear when acccelerating in traffic. The Sunrace let's me go one gear at a time. When using the throttle which can run up to 140-150rpm I still skip a gear anyway. But since I'm not pedaling then it doesn't matter much.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N7VRAFM?tag=bravesoftwa04-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&language=en_US

I think the BBSHD favors the wider gear splits. With a 50T ring I can lift the front wheel taking off in 28t.
Every other cassette I've seen uses the same 18-21-24-28 progression.I like the Sunrace better. The Sunrace with your 12t top gear would be pretty nice.
My bike is 26" so your chainring will be a more normal size than mine.

[Retrorockit]

The Sunrace with your 12t top gear would be 12-13-15-18-22-28-32-40. The BBSHD can pull any top gear 11-12-13. It's mostly to adjust the pedal cadence at various speeds.Having more than one top gear spreads the wear out on the small cogs.11-13 is a big step, 12-13 is small. But there isn't anything in between.
My custom cassette starting with the Sunrace is 11-12-13-15-18-22-28-36. But 11t is a rarely used overdrive. The 36t is a compromise between 32-40. It's good for crosswalk sprint and stop situations. I would suggest getting 2 cassettes and see what works for you.
Since your bike is a hardtail the Tannus tire liner may interest you also. Stan's in the tubes takes care of flats, but the Tannus does much more.

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/151499-tannus-tire-liners

[Mike_V]

For me only a long, non-Shimano, derailleur has worked with a 42T sprocket.

[Retrorockit]

Here is Sheldon Brown's gear Calculator. All the cassettes should be in there. You can try 3 chainrings at once if you like. For gear units MPH@90RPM is a good choice unless you know you can spin faster.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

[brothergc]

Here is Sheldon Brown's gear Calculator. All the cassettes should be in there. You can try 3 chainrings at once if you like. For gear units MPH@90RPM is a good choice unless you know you can spin faster.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

Wow thanks ! That really helps . Currently running a 42t ft chain ring which seems in hind sight is a bit too small , I would like to use 52 tooth but I got chain-stay clearance issues , but I could just possibly fit a 46 tooth to get a few more MPH and having a lower granny gear still able to keep the motor from bogging down

[brothergc]

Retrorocket,
52 ft chain ring is not doable , chain line issues and clearance issues , Want to just can't .
I will give Your Sun race a try m but according to micro shift it might not work as well ( click on the FAQ Tab)
QUOTE:
Our derailleurs work best within their suggested max cog range. 42-46t for Acolyte and Advent. 46-48t for ADVENT X. Moving to a smaller range will work, but it will also increase the distance between your guide pulley and the cogs of your cassette. This will result in slower, sluggish shifting, and our engineers will be disappointed in you.
If you exceed the max cog specification, you can stress the system, damage your derailleur, and negatively affect shifting. Unquote

https://www.microshift.com/models/cs-h083-12-42t/

I suspect it will just not sure so I will gamble , I do like your idea of better range , 11-40 seems more reasonable

[Retrorockit]

A 2 tooth difference won't be noticeable. if you went down to 11-32, or 11-28 it might be different. The ratios on the Microshift are spaced for a pedal bike struggling around in the dirt and on hills at low speed I like old 3x8 MTBs for E bike conversion. But the gearing when you switch to 1x8 for street use with a BBSHD it will be all wrong. As far as the engineers go- it's an MTB groupset. YOU are the engineer now. I own a pile of Shimano XTR and other cassettes, SRAM too. Tried them all. The Sunrace is the only one I found with the right gearing in the middle for a BBSHD. It's cheap enough that I swap it out with each chain replacement. I don't think you will ever find an engineer that won't tell you that what they designed is absolutely perfect, and shouldn't be changed at all. Did you tell them you were putting a 2HP electric motor on it? The engineers would probably sh!t themselves. I had one engineer at Endless sphere who came totally unglued at the thought of a zip tie locking the cassette to the spokes. It works great actually.
If you want to you can stick the 42t in place of the 40t on the Sunrace. That's one of the nice things about cheap cassettes. It will either slow the bike down, or hoist the front wheel (going even slower).

[brothergc]

ok parts are starting to arrive . I installed the Lekkie HD 46t bling ring . Wow glad I did not go with the 52t , left me with just enough clearance to put 2 business cards put together between the chain stay and the outer ring . Chain line looks good straight between 5th gear and the Lekkie. More parts later this afternoon.
Edit anyone using a GT agressor pro , 46 is the max . and even then I had to use a 1mm spacer . Glad I saved My Luna Cycle install kit left over parts

[brothergc]

Epic FAIL !
Micro Shift shifter broken , Looked around the web and its a common problem , bad reviews on Amazon on this shifter . Add to that that the Chain Line gets crazy when using the Acolyte derailleur and the Sunrace cassette so that is a no go. Better with the Acolyte cassette .
For a experiment I had the original Shimano Acera derailleur that came with the GT aggressor Pro so I installed that with the Sunrace cassette 11-40 it kinda works and my chain line is much better. But it has issues getting into the 2 low gears . This is crazy LOL . One last thing to try Shimano Acera RD-M3020
and I already have a 8 speed Shimano 8 speed shifter . This is advertised as handling a 11-40 t cassette

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/acera-m3020/RD-M3020-8.html

[Retrorockit]

I ran the numbers on the Shimano 11-40t at Sheldon Brown and it has very nice gear splits. Not much different than the the Sunrace but some cog sizes I haven't seen before. So thanks for posting that option.
Thanks for trying new stuff and posting here. Even things that don't work out produce valuable info.I'm sure the Acera/11-40t combo will be useful to a lot of people. Another derailer option would be the Sunrace M900. I have one that's medium cage clutch type with a very heavy return spring. More of a headbanger part than the Acera.

[Mike_V]

The ACERA 40T capacity you refer to may be with a smaller chain ring.
I've lost track of your problem, if it's chain line related limiting your shifting range then consider modifying your cassette and settle for using fewer cogs.

[Retrorockit]

The Acera long cage derailer (I haven't found any other size yet) Supports 11t minimum, and 40T maximum rear cogs, but has a total capacity of 45t.
Which is a different thing.So on a pedal bike it looks like 50/34 compact crank (16t range) and 11-40t cassetttes (29t range) should work together.
This is a fresh build so he doesn't have any problems yet, except for trying a budget brand groupset that didn't work out for him.
He did discover some nice recently released Shimano parts for traditional 8-9 speed bikes that have been neglected by Shimano and SRAM for a while now.

[brothergc]

Ok finally git the new Acera installed , went smooth . Did some testing , impressive as I dont need to shift as much .
How ever I just could not resist , so I pulled the trigger on a Shimano CS-HG400-8 Cassette - 8 Speed. I found for cheep on amazon for 32 bucks shipped . Probably will not see much difference but I do like the looks of the cassette and at this price could not hurt to have a spare , and it makes the set complete . Always liked Shinano . Built like a tank ! :)
Anyway the *-speed conversion is complete .

[brothergc]

Update:
I ordered the Shimano 8 speed cassette 11-42 and I gotta say I m more impress with this then the Sunrace. Twice as heavy so IMO that means a well made Cassette . I see strong rivets , and just a better looking cassette . It shifts smoother into the 42t as well

[Retrorockit]

I can't find that cassette. Do you have a part# for it. You seem to be dialed in with Shimanos latest vintage offereings.

[brothergc]

no retrorockit , incorrect . :) I have 26 inch wheels . Nothing on that GT Aggressor Pro is original except the frame . Bought in 2020 on sale and what You see now is a labor of love . Learned a lot , upgraded over time . Little here and their . I can safely say I have a one of a kind GT Aggressor Pro.
But Hay if You ever get out My way , got some nice 27.5 maveric wheels I be willing to throw Your way ! :)

[Retrorockit]

Those would be nice if my little brother ever powers up his Gary Fisher Dual Sport Hybrid. He could ditch the skinny 700c crap. But he seems to be happy pedaling around NYC. He;s a funny guy, every time I send him an upgrade he says he doesn't need it. Until it's on the bike, then he can't live without it.
My 2004 Gary Fisher Solstice is the same way. Converted to disc brakes, required new wheelset, there goes 1/2 of the brand new bike!. The RS coil/oil fork is still hanging in there.A good thing too because the steerer tube is about a foot long!

[brothergc]

just completed a 17 mile ride . I am impressed ! So much better with the gear change . that 46t ft chain ring and the 1x8 I can easily stay in the higher gear ranges while in pedal assist with the motor pulling 300-500 watt and stay at 15-18 mph. I shift half as much as i uses to.
Throttle only reached 33 mph on 7th gear at about 1200w . That is when I backed off . Gets a little sketchy above that . I am sure I could push to 40mph down hill but for Me its more about the ride then getting their fast . Always good to know when needed I can jet away from any sketchy situation if need be.

[brothergc]

Shimano does not make a 11-42 that I am aware of
for Me 40t is something I will probably never use and we are talking a difference of 2 teeth. :)

[Retrorockit]

"I ordered the Shimano 8 speed cassette 11-42 and I gotta say I m more impress with this then the Sunrace"
It must have been a typo..

[Retrorockit]

I use the 40t with assist level 0 for around pedestrians on sidewalks. Pedal bike basically, but throttle is still there if I need a jump.I have tour boats unloading crowds onto a sidewalk that connects east and west parts of downtown.Some times I just get off and walk the bike if it's real crowded.
Under power or up hills it just flips the bike over backwards.

[Retrorockit]

I would suggest finding a safe place, and do a couple panic stops from top speed to see how your brakes can handle it. One stop form speed tells you a lot on flat terrain. Do a 2nd stop and let it heat soak a bit and be sure there isn't a surprise problem then. maybe the ICE rotors can control the extra heat. testing is the only way to know what you really have (or not).

[Retrorockit]

I have a 3 level overpass (2 highways underneath the top one) that I use the rear brake to control speed for a sharp 90* turn onto a crosswalk.I test the rear brake separately for that.