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3x8 speed to 11 speed conversion

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  • Retrorockit
    replied
    My bike has Mavic wheels. It turns out Mavic had the Shimano HG11 road spline before Shimano did. They guessed MTB would go wide for 11s, but they offset the inner cog instead and kept the older MTB spline. I found an 11-40 11s Prestacycle Uniblock HG11 cassette for sale at Universal Cycles for $125 ($216 list) This is like the very expensive SRAM CNC Chromoly cassettes. It does have an alloy block for the 2 largest cogs. About 400g. lighter than the Shimano discus. With a 42t ring it works for me. So the 3x8 to 1x11 conversion is done.
    I added a White ENO trials freewheel to the front for a zip tie mod to match my Ebike.
    There's another thread for that adventure.
    This is a spinoff of the Mid Drive Cassette Zip tie Mod thread which is pretty much complete for BBSHD etc.. This is how to do the front freewheel mod om bikes that don't already have one. Maybe a hub motor bike, an urban bike, or just to get another bike to shift the same as a zip tied Ebike. I've ordered a bunch of parts to

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    The 11-46t ZTTO cassette did not provide the seam less experience the Shimano cassette did. I had ahrd time getting it to shift right. I'm back with the Shimano discus for now. I may try the top 4 Shimano cogs on the light weight and see if that helps. But It's a guest bike and I have guests right now so that will be later.

  • Retrorockit
    replied
    The Chinese cassette arrived. It's pretty nice. 4x alloy big sprockets in a block, the next 3 are steel on an alloy spider, and the 4 small ones are loose sprockets that can be replaced with Shimano when they wear out. Unfortunately they didn't take a finish cut on the back of the last cog and there is a shoulder even with the bottom of the roller cutouts. This will hold the chin up just a little.I'll have to get it machined before I use it. The 11-46t count get's me back in spec. for the mid cage derailer.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    Clutch deraillers happen in 11s MTB parts and seem to be what's needed for the Midrive Casette Zip Tie Mod ( latest version is a DIY friction drive) that uses the front freewheel in a mid drive.
    I've got enough seat time on this mod. I think I can bring it forward on it's own. It came out of another discussion here which rambled around some. https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...ed-a-freewheel (https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/155141-does-a-mid-drive-really-need-a-freewheel) The mod

  • Retrorockit
    replied
    So here is what I found out doing this. Interchangeability is very good if you stick to MTB parts. Mountain 11s cassettes fit 8 speed MTB freehubs, MTB derailleurs work with Shimano or SRAM NX shifters.
    if you start looking at road parts confusion can set in. This can happen because there are wide range road cassettes now ( Prestacycle), and there are some MTB freehubs (Mavic) with the HG11 road splines (1.75mm longer) that always had spacers for 8-9 speed cassettes. Derailleurs and shifters use a different cable pull ratio, and even though the spline is wider the road cassette is slightly narrower. The MTB inner cog is offset towards the spokes. The smaller road cogs needed a wider freehub. The big alloy cogs are thicker so spacers vary also. Don't plan on stacking your own cassette. For Ebikes stick to MTB stuff.
    There are many articles online that don't make it clear that they are discussing road parts and not MTB, or just make cryptic references to HG11 without clarifying what it is. Because this bike has Mavic hubs I get drawn into that swamp. HG11 seems to be orphaned by Microspline hubs that take 10t cogs.
    Rumor has it that MTB derailleurs and shifters work with road cassettes. Youtube says it works.
    I'm trying this on a pedal bike because my Ebike is dialed in for what I'm doing. I just wanted to get some experince with Wide Narrow chain rings and 11s chains. On the 26" bike I got a mid cage derailleur with 46t limit to work with an 11-51t cassette.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 09-17-2023, 04:46 AM.

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  • Retrorockit
    replied
    Waiting on the cassette from China. The NX Gripshifter is pretty nice. Ball bearings, and an offroad grip that you can turn when it's wet. I had to give up Rapid Rise to get a decent shifter, and 1x11.
    Pure luck that it works with Shimano 11s.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I have another wheelset for this bike Sun Rhynolite/ XT hubs.26x2.5 Maxxis Hookworms. The Shimano Death Star cassette will end up there. I'm thinking about putting a 42t cog on my 180mm cranks to go with them for tractoring around in the SoFla sand traps. One trip there usually lasts me a year or two. I'll even put the Eggbeaters on them.With no front derailleur crank swapping with the self extracting bolts becomes an option.For offroad it also gains a Thudbuster.
    If your wondering why the ST frame AND a Thudbuster, the ST frame was to keep wash board gravel roads from shaking my feet off of the pedals.Definitely don't want Eggbeaters on the street.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 09-08-2023, 05:41 AM.

  • Retrorockit
    replied
    Plan C is looking like an off brand ZTTO Lighweight 11-46t cassette. The 4 big cogs are 1pc. alloy. Next 3 are steel on an alloy spider, the top 4 are Shimano compatible loose cogs. I have 1 climb in my ride. A 3 level overpass. So for me this may work.
    https://ztto.net/products/ztto-11-sp...h-10-speed-hub.
    Now 3x8 to 1x11 may apply to a BBSHD conversion, but I'm not suggesting this cassette for that. They have mixed reviews. Mostly hard use and long wear issues. This fits the theme of lightweight offroad parts for street use. A BBSHD would probably shred those 24 spoke Mavics.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 09-08-2023, 04:30 AM.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I got into this at 3x8 so IDK about 7 speed. Freewheel was still common with 7 speed. Cassettes may be scarce there anyway. It looks like the squishing together of gears landed Shimano 11 speed at the same cable pull/gear as SRAM so the NX Gripshifter is working.(1:1.1mm to 1:1.12mm)
    I thought they just wrapped the small cog around the end of the freewheel to get wider? That's how they got down to 11t. But I'm not sure?
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 09-08-2023, 04:27 AM.

  • 73Eldo
    replied
    I'm pretty sure the original 7 speed cassettes were narrower than later more speed versions. When they went to 8 it got a little wider then after that they just squished things closer together. 8,9,10 all interchange. 11+ is where it gets a little more complex and model and brand defendant.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    It turns out this is a Road Bike 11s part. Cancelled the order before it shipped. On to plan C.

  • Retrorockit
    replied
    It's looking like this. So an old 3x7,8,9 bike can be converted to 1x11 if that's what you want. But in this case that cassette has got to go!
    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20230902_180307073_HDR.jpg
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ID:	164396‚Äč

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  • Retrorockit
    replied
    Here's a link to that cassette. No reviews that I've seen so far. So that will be my next experiment. But pics. there.
    — COMPATIBILITY — GEARS: 11 Speed SHIFTING: Shimano & SRAM FREEHUB: HG11, HG10 only(HG10 Requires our HG10 Lockring, not included) — PERFORMANCE — Save up to a 1/2 POUND over OEM! Maximum Performance 11 Speed Shifting Interchangeable performance on all Drivetrains Chromoly steel single block small cogs 7075-T6 Allo

    Universal Cycles has them proced lower. (Much lower on the 11-40t.)
    I have no idea what a BBSHD might do to that part.

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  • Retrorockit
    started a topic 3x8 speed to 11 speed conversion

    3x8 speed to 11 speed conversion

    I did this on my 26" XC pedal bike because I didn't want to mess with the Ebike. I've got it dialed in pretty good with the zip tie mod and ICE brake rotors.
    So based on some forum research I found users running the Shimano M7000 derailleur and M5100 11-51t cassette. I went with the M7000 because I could get it in GS mid cage for the 26" wheels.
    I had a vendor that would send me anything except what I ordered. So it took about a month to get the cassette. They don't list a weight for it. There is a reason for that. 11 steel cogs are heavy as hell. 1lb. 6oz. heavy. It's not going to be on the 24 spoke Mavic rims very long. But it fits, and it works. Just so it wouldn't be too easy I added a SRAM NX 11 speed Gripshifter to the mix. it works too.
    Wippermann 11s8 chain with Effetto Mariposa Flower Power drip wax. Look it up at Zero Friction Cycling.
    I bought a cheap 46T Wide Narrow chain ring which fit in the middle position on the vintage XT crankset. No real drama putting it together. I did have to file the ID of the chain ring to get it on the crankset. I set the limit screws and B screw without the shifter connected, That just left tuning the barrel nut to get all the gears. The derailleur jockey wheel is kind of far from the small cogs but it shifts OK. So the experiment worked. But that cassette can't stay on the XC bike. I ordered a Prestacycle Uniblock 11-42t x 11s cassette. About 1/2 what a similar SRAM costs. The 2 big cogs are 7075 Al. The 9 small ones are Chromoly. 265g. vs 623G. for the death star cassette. (Birthday present to self).
    Even if I get the weight back down for this bike I did lose the Rapid Rise derailleur, and match Revoshifter. So I'm back to pedaling when braking so I can downshift. Also no more downshift when stopped. I don't ride this bike in traffic like the Big Dog so I can live with it. But I still think it's stupid.
    The close gears on one shifter are nice. The 51t cog looks even bigger in a 26" wheel. It may end up with a 44t or even 42t chain ring. If I need to go fast I'll take the Ebike. This bike is on Schwalbe Kojac slicks, so I haven't had any need to try the clutch derailer feature.
    Last edited by Retrorockit; 09-04-2023, 09:53 AM.
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