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Hopefully, the big wiring thread

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  • paxtana
    commented on 's reply
    The preferred method is a heatgun if you have one but it's definitely not necessary.

    I tested what would happen if you had a high resistance connection with partially melted solder on the solder sleeve and if this heat caused the low-melt solder to melt while in use. Turns out the resistance is almost the same even when the solder is liquid. Not exactly the same but close enough that I wonder if the liquefied solder would spread out further across the wires essentially improving the electrical connection when used with a lot of current.
    So it might go poor solder sleeve job>sleeve heats up during use>solder melts further>melted solder fixes resistance>sleeve cools down from lower resistance.
    And it ends up fixing itself.

    I'll need to do a more rigorous test to be sure but it's an interesting thought.

    What's the x pattern method of soldering?

  • commuter ebikes
    commented on 's reply
    I was soldering last night and thinking that somebody should invent something like this. I would imagine that somebody could use a heat gun instead of a cigarette lighter.

    I was taught to solder by somebody who learned it in the US Navy (in about 1979). I strip the wires and wrap them around one another using the "X-pattern method" and I always use a third hand for the soldering. This sure seems to result in a bombproof connection.

  • paxtana
    replied
    Here's a neat trick for using solder sleeves.
    Was not something I had considered until recently but since the sleeve is completely hollow you can pull it all the way back over the wire like a piece of heatshrink in order to twist the wiring together for a better connection. Coming from using butt splices where this is not possible it never occurred to me that you could do something like this, course it seemed obvious once I'd seen it.
    Results in an even better more durable low resistance connection.

    Leave a comment:


  • paxtana
    commented on 's reply
    For what it's worth I think this would be a very good connector for smaller wiring.

  • Ebike1
    replied
    Great post. Thanks for the info . I also use copper crimp rings and a dab of solder to braise it from coming undone

    Leave a comment:


  • Rider
    commented on 's reply
    WOW! I bet you are the local kids favorite neighbor. My father was in the Aerospace Fastener business and our garage was the local fix anything shop for the neighborhood when I was a child. We even kept a clipboard for tool checkout. Any of the kids could checkout a tool as long as they logged it with a date, time and name so we knew where it was if we needed it. Good times for creative kids on a budget...

  • Canuman
    replied
    Originally posted by paxtana View Post
    I contacted Posi-lock about their current rating and they said it was fine for high current, figured I would test it out and see if it's something worth recommending for noobs, since a simple reusable solderless connector sounds great in theory.
    Results were mixed. I want to like them but there are several issues.
    • no step-down connectors for 10-12 to 14-16. Forget connecting xt90 or large bafang power wiring to generic hardcase cradles with this
    • no water resistant connectors in 10-12awg, only separate ones for 10 and 12 (and not even that for their most waterproof version)
    • while the connectors are billed as being reusable the below picture shows the seal degrading after a single use
    • no included package info showing the connector's not meant to be screwed back in all the way after wire insertion (admittedly a minor issue but overtightening will strip the threads)
    • the wire has to be cut to a very specific length or it does not work well
    • forget about screwing these in by hand despite the included pictures, you probably want a couple pairs of pliers if using on ebike power cables


    The 10awg water resistant posi-seal below was not great for standard 10awg xt90 connector cables. While the wire fit, there is a silicone gasket in the hole that is nowhere near wide enough to fit the wire insulation through, so you have this awful space between the wire insulation and the connector insulation where the wire's just exposed, see pic two. Not sure if they expect people to drill out the seal or if they did not make any allowances for the thick insulation used in large wires? Either way it's sloppy.
    Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_20170401_210955.jpg Views:	1 Size:	182.9 KB ID:	31937
    Click image for larger version Name:	wont fit insulation.jpg Views:	1 Size:	157.0 KB ID:	31938
    Had better results with the regular type posi-lock, which they have a 10-12awg for. This is important since many xt90 pigtails are 10awg, bbshd controller power wires are 12awg.

    As seen below the 10awg wire can enter the connector enough so there is no exposed bare wire at the edge of connector. So the non-waterproof connectors appear to be substantially more safe for noob use compared to the waterproof kind, if the waterproof kind were left unmodified and they just followed the directions on the package.
    Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_20170401_211627.jpg Views:	1 Size:	153.4 KB ID:	31939
    Click image for larger version Name:	xt90 10awg motor 12awg.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.43 MB ID:	31940
    But these regular version connectors are not even slightly weather resistant, which would be very problematic for long term ebike use. Fine, we'll use some liquid electrical tape and dielectric grease.
    Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_20170401_230249.jpg Views:	1 Size:	152.8 KB ID:	31941


    yay for permatex
    Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_20170401_224842.jpg Views:	1 Size:	252.9 KB ID:	31942


    greasing inside connector
    Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_20170402_212157.jpg Views:	1 Size:	181.9 KB ID:	31943


    LET waterproofing the connector
    End result not bad after modification, tested with a 50A peak controller and they didn't even get warm. And with the modifications it is definitely waterproof..But the connector is no longer reusable, it took a bunch of extra tools, was finicky and took a bunch of time. Even if you were to drill out a posi-seal gasket instead of these mods that still requires more tools than just using a lighter and a cheap heatshrink solder sleeve, and would probably be less sealed.
    TL;DR: Kind of defeats the whole point if it is neither simple, quick, easy, or cheap.
    I've mostly used Posi-Locs on headlight shells in older BMW motorcycles where someone got in with a pair of dykes and no sense of direction. I certainly don't recommend them for all purposes, but that was an exhaustive write up. SCIENCE! Cutting the wire to the correct dimension isn't all that difficult after you flub the first one or two.

    Leave a comment:


  • Canuman
    replied
    Good to see this thread taking off. I haven't done much with e-bikes in the past few weeks, but I did deliver some red-hot peddle builds Once a bike wrench, always a bike wrench. Working on my own "fat man on an e-bike" build, and have got some significant parts sorted. My son calls it "The Japanese Gangster Mafia Sketchy Bike." I think that I'm pleased with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rider
    commented on 's reply
    Good to know Calfee20! I've always avoided using it on multi-connectors, but I guess my fears were unjustified. Thanks.

  • Rider
    commented on 's reply
    That 10ga to 14ga kind of struck me as strange too, but I know the Luna Panasonic-Sanyo GA 21Ah battery I'm using is top notch stuff with XT90 connectors supplied. I "assume" Bafang knows what gauge wire is needed to supple the amps, volts and watts the BBS02 750W/48V motor is designed for, so I simply used quality step-down butt wire connectors that I crimped, soldered and used double heat-shrink (one piece on each wire and a larger piece over both connectors). Working great so far and looked neat and clean too.

  • LI-ghtcycle
    replied
    This is a great thread! I am very curious to try some of the shrink with solder inside, novel idea, my only concern would be using a flame to shrink it, I much prefer a heat gun, more bulky, but much easier to control the temperature and avoid over-heating/burning of the shrink. I also really like using marine grade shrink with adhesive inside, the regular stuff will just get loose and move over time.

    Anyone tried the self-soldering shrink on a high watt application? I guess worst case scenario, things would get hot enough if your wire was too small/lacking quality for the load and the solder would liquefy, but if the shrink is high enough temp, perhaps it would survive a momentary heating in a short burst, but of course, if you over-size the wiring in the first place, shouldn't be an issue.

    I am thinking when I am able, and can really have the kind of power to push my Cro-Motor at a race track, that I would probably be ok running 72V 100A through 8g wire, main problem then is either a very expensive BMS and large 18650 battery, or just a good set of LiPo (Turnigy Nanotechs are my favorite so far, LiCo seems to perform well as long as you don't abuse them) and deal with the annoyance of balance charging a pack that is only used on a race track on occasion.

    Leave a comment:


  • calfee20
    commented on 's reply
    Dielectric grease is non conductive.

    From an article I found "In regular low voltage multiple-pin circuit connectors, such as automotive applications, flooding with a proper insulating grease of low-viscosity dielectric grease is perfectly acceptable unless a manufacturer recommends against it. The grease should have good stability and not contain metals in any form, and be specifically designed for use as a dielectric grease. This generally is a silicone dielectric grease, although some Teflon based greases are acceptable."

    http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_greas...ive_grease.htm

  • Rider
    commented on 's reply
    Isn't dielectric grease designed for "single" connectors only and allows the transfer of electricity to pass through it? I'd hate to see someone think a gob of dielectric grease on a dual or triple connector will seal it up. Wouldn't that allow the transfer of electricity between the separate and distinct wires on a multiple wire connector? I'm I completely wrong on this or is it worth pointing out? Good thread by the way.

  • funwithbikes
    commented on 's reply
    Excellent write up! This was not the typical, 'I heard X, Y or Z was good (or bad)' like we see on some other forums.

  • paxtana
    replied
    I contacted Posi-lock about their current rating and they said it was fine for high current, figured I would test it out and see if it's something worth recommending for noobs, since a simple reusable solderless connector sounds great in theory.
    Results were mixed. I want to like them but there are several issues.
    • no step-down connectors for 10-12 to 14-16. Forget connecting xt90 or large bafang power wiring to generic hardcase cradles with this
    • no water resistant connectors in 10-12awg, only separate ones for 10 and 12 (and not even that for their most waterproof version)
    • while the connectors are billed as being reusable the below picture shows the seal degrading after a single use
    • no included package info showing the connector's not meant to be screwed back in all the way after wire insertion (admittedly a minor issue but overtightening will strip the threads)
    • the wire has to be cut to a very specific length or it does not work well
    • forget about screwing these in by hand despite the included pictures, you probably want a couple pairs of pliers if using on ebike power cables


    The 10awg water resistant posi-seal below was not great for standard 10awg xt90 connector cables. While the wire fit, there is a silicone gasket in the hole that is nowhere near wide enough to fit the wire insulation through, so you have this awful space between the wire insulation and the connector insulation where the wire's just exposed, see pic two. Not sure if they expect people to drill out the seal or if they did not make any allowances for the thick insulation used in large wires? Either way it's sloppy.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20170401_210955.jpg Views:	1 Size:	182.9 KB ID:	31937
    Click image for larger version  Name:	wont fit insulation.jpg Views:	1 Size:	157.0 KB ID:	31938
    Had better results with the regular type posi-lock, which they have a 10-12awg for. This is important since many xt90 pigtails are 10awg, bbshd controller power wires are 12awg.

    As seen below the 10awg wire can enter the connector enough so there is no exposed bare wire at the edge of connector. So the non-waterproof connectors appear to be substantially more safe for noob use compared to the waterproof kind, if the waterproof kind were left unmodified and they just followed the directions on the package.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20170401_211627.jpg Views:	1 Size:	153.4 KB ID:	31939
    Click image for larger version  Name:	xt90 10awg motor 12awg.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.43 MB ID:	31940
    But these regular version connectors are not even slightly weather resistant, which would be very problematic for long term ebike use. Fine, we'll use some liquid electrical tape and dielectric grease.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20170401_230249.jpg Views:	1 Size:	152.8 KB ID:	31941


    yay for permatex
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20170401_224842.jpg Views:	1 Size:	252.9 KB ID:	31942


    greasing inside connector
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20170402_212157.jpg Views:	1 Size:	181.9 KB ID:	31943


    LET waterproofing the connector
    End result not bad after modification, tested with a 50A peak controller and they didn't even get warm. And with the modifications it is definitely waterproof..But the connector is no longer reusable, it took a bunch of extra tools, was finicky and took a bunch of time. Even if you were to drill out a posi-seal gasket instead of these mods that still requires more tools than just using a lighter and a cheap heatshrink solder sleeve, and would probably be less sealed.
    TL;DR: Kind of defeats the whole point if it is neither simple, quick, easy, or cheap.

    Leave a comment:

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