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Soma Riff belt drive build

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    #16
    I've realized that this post should probably be in Forum > DIY Builders Section > Custom Builds. Is there a way to request a mod to move it?
    Intro, Belt Driven Build

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      #17
      Thank you! I read through your build thread all the way yesterday. It looked like you mounted the rear
      cog 2.5mm from its outermost position, so I was hoping that mounting it as far out as it would go would counteract the 2.5mm additional B.B. width on each side. Does some of that space need to be there for a lockring? (No, but make sure you buy an offset rear belt cog and not a flat one if they have an option in the size you want.)

      My front is a 50t. Would a different size help here? (AFAIK the 50T is the smallest that will clear the gear reduction housing without machine work. I don’t know anyone that has tested a 46T without or with machining.) As a side question, I noticed that you eventually went 55/24 which is very close to the 50/22 that I was planning to run. Was there a reason you increased the front rather than shrinking the back? (So I didn’t have to buy a new belt to run: 50X28, 50X24 or 55X24. Cogs are easy to sell, used belts no matter how new are not so easy to unload.) I was going on the assumption that the smaller the front cog the better.

      I ordered my bbs02 and battery a couple of days ago. I’ll go get the frame prepped so I can test it out as soon as it arrives.

      I had ordered the same chainring adaptor as you a week or two back. (I think you will be fine with the same high quality adaptor I used. It’s good looking and strong. I like the inset, as it helps center the belt ring, but it isn’t necessary.) Most of the ones I’ve found like this one

      https://california-ebike.com/shop/ba...nring-adapter/

      Have an inset on one side, but I bet I could flip it around to gain a little bit. I’m not opposed to facing a bit off the bottom bracket, but I suspect that width is there to support the wider tires

      Here are some 0.6mm spacers I found. A couple of these might do the trick if i need to lose a ml off the front chainline. Man Origin 8 makes some good problem solvers. I wasn't familiar with that brand. (I’ve been impressed with all the Origin8 products I’ve purchased.)

      https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/99?...3D183402839194

      I’m fine with the SA hub. I’d thought about some of the others but really 3 speeds is all I think I need considering my background singlespeeding. I'll keep a granny and an overdrive just in case, but I'd expect to spend most of my time in the middle gear. Its pretty flat here in Denver. (Odds are you will be in 3rd most of the time, flying along at 20+mph, unless you ride off-road a lot. It’s amazing how much just a little electric assist adds to the ease of making the bike move.)

      Thanks for your continued assistance! (You are welcome. I don’t come here much anymore, now that my builds are done. The Surly ECR is going to be a long-term keeper and the two large GA battery packs I have should last for many years. But I will check in now and then as your build progresses. I can’t wait to hear your reaction once you start riding it.)
      Last edited by Rider; 09-24-2018, 04:50 PM.
      MOVING BACK TO PEDAL...
      2020 Banshee Paradox V3 1x11 (pedal)
      2018 Soma Wolverine 3spd IGH Belt Drive (pedal)

      Comment


        #18
        How’s your build coming along?
        MOVING BACK TO PEDAL...
        2020 Banshee Paradox V3 1x11 (pedal)
        2018 Soma Wolverine 3spd IGH Belt Drive (pedal)

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Rider View Post
          How’s your build coming along?
          Hiya Rider! Slowly but surely. Yesterday I got the 22ga steel for the battery box bent into shape. I've run into a wrinkle where I used stainless steel for the box frame. my strategy for the sides is the weld stainless steel acorn nuts on the inside so that the bolts don't chew up any cables or the battery with the vibrations. I was at my buddy's house doing the cutting and bending (and i found out how to use a machinist's protractor to get the cut angles just right!). He was going to help me with the welding, but said that stainless requires different stuff so I've reached out to another friend to help me with that part.

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          One of the long steps in the box design was figuring out the smallest hole that that cables would pass through and sizing the front and bottom parts of the box accordingly. Particularly the bottom one was tough because I had to put the bottom of the box as close to the bottom bracket as possible (because the gear sensor cable is so short) while leaving enough space for the cable hole. My current plan is to use Sugru to make my own grommets to keep everything watertight by the cables. I attached the diagram i've been working with for the front and bottom surfaces of the box. It has a couple of options for placing the luna switch that i won't be able to finalize until I can sit on the bike.

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          For future reference, Temco makes a cheap cobalt step drill bit that should work well for drilling the stainless holes. It was about $20 and was the only one on Amazon that was actually made of cobalt.



          Tomorrow I'm giving the go ahead for the wheels to be built and the headset to be ordered. I wasn't sure if i should try for 36 hole wheels but 32 seems to be the path of least resistance here. for 36 at the very least it looks like I'd have to order the rear hub off ebay, where my lbs seems to work mostly with 32 hole. After searching around on here it seems like 32 hole should be strong enough but 36 would be stronger. When I was a bike commuter in SF I hit a pothole once and potatochipped my front wheel, flew over the bars, and separated my shoulder. So I'm a little paranoid about wheels. I see that you used 32 hole rims and triple butted spokes on your b side build. My lbs wants to use double butted spokes.
          Last edited by Overkill; 11-06-2018, 07:32 PM.
          Intro, Belt Driven Build

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            #20
            DB spokes will be great. Maybe consider good-sized tires that can help absorb the pothole carnage. Drilling stainless is harder than welding it. Gotta use plenty of pressure to keep that cutter feeding in. Keep the drill going slow, too. SS will work-harden on ya, and that will make things REALLY difficult.

            Comment


            • Overkill
              Overkill commented
              Editing a comment
              thanks! the tires will be 27.5 x 2.8.

              i went slow and used cutting oil and was patient :) I have to say using an impact driver to make the holes is pretty sweet!

            #21
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            I got the steel mounted in the frame and cut to size. It will get welded this week and the frame will get prepped and get wheels too!
            Intro, Belt Driven Build

            Comment


              #22
              Aircraft Spruce is a major supplier of aircraft hardware of all types, with a very informative site. Check out the 1/4 turn fasteners and nutplates, all useful for a project like yours. I have built 5 kitplanes, and let me tell you, there is a lot of trick hardware that is very useful on an ebike build! One little trick I use is to rivet a aircraft piano hinge onto two parts, not to be able to hinge, but since once you pull the hinge pin (normally safetied) the two parts separate.....so a simple go around to have a way to quickly take things apart.

              All three of my builds use these: ttps://www.amazon.com/60Amp-Circuit-Breaker-Marine-Stereo/dp/B076GVZYHX/ref=asc_df_B076GVZYHX/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241980973821&hvpos=1o4&hvne tw=g&hvrand=6523098074263112438&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hv qmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029427& hvtargid=pla-469239427865&psc=1 Available in whatever rating needed, weather proof, cheap, reliable, with large lugs for secure wire connections.

              Comment


              • Overkill
                Overkill commented
                Editing a comment
                thank you! I'll check them out!

              #23
              Overkill - Curious where this build is and if you got it going?

              Just scored a 2018 Soma Wolverine Belt Drive frame. I plan to transfer over all my Soma B-Side 650B belt drive parts and re-lace my Sturmey-Archer 5spd with a failed rim to a matching 27.5 blue Halo Vapour rim. In planning out the gearing I came across the 21T Sturmey-Archer CDX Gates Belt Drive C50 Cog (46.87mm 3-Lobe) # CT1121AMNS-4575S which I didn't know existed. I'm going to see if the belt line can be matched to the SA 5spd on this road, gravel and monstercross frame. It's Pumpkin Orange!
              MOVING BACK TO PEDAL...
              2020 Banshee Paradox V3 1x11 (pedal)
              2018 Soma Wolverine 3spd IGH Belt Drive (pedal)

              Comment


              • calfee20
                calfee20 commented
                Editing a comment
                I have used Halo rims on my trikes. I really like them.

              • Dan.shaner
                Dan.shaner commented
                Editing a comment
                Rider, I am very interested in your experience here. I’m riding a pumpkin orange wolvie with an Alfine-8, bbs02 and a chain. I’m templating get how best to get to a belt on this rig and would prefer not to add the weight and expense of a rohloff.

                I’m also interested in your 650b experience in this rig. I ride 700c-44 on front with genders and would like to ride a bit larger tires.

              • Rider
                Rider commented
                Editing a comment
                Halo rims are nice! Just bought a set of Vortex for my Banshee Paradox build. The rear hums like a swarm of locusts.

                Dan - I hate to disappoint, but initially I will be setting the new Wolverine up with my Sturmey-Archer CS-RK3 3-speed because of how easy belt alignment is using a rear cassette. Although over time I will be analyzing and commenting on how I think the belt line can be moved inward to the 44-46mm range of the Sturmey-Archer RX-RK5 IGH. Here is my Soma Wolverine V2.1.1 Belt Drive BBS02B build thread:

                Picked up a NOS 2018 Soma Wolverine V2.1.1 (has the added rear supports) belt drive XL (62cm) frame. Plan to move all my 2016 Soma B-Side large frame parts over to it; creating a new street, gravel and monstercross E-ride fitted with 27.5 (650B) wheels with largish tires. It will be setup using my Sturmey-Archer CS-RK3 3-speed

              #24
              It's alive!

              Hi Rider , sorry for the lack of updates, the battery box took waaaay longer than i wanted it to to get it in proper overkill fashion :) I had to learn a lot about metalworking and had to call in reinforcements because the welder I had access to didn't have the right rod for stainless steel and of course I picked stainless steel to work with . I also had to source some good cobalt bits, learn how to use an angle grinder, and learn some basic wood working to make a jig for drilling the holes. I've been working hard on the bike during quarantine and finally got the wiring done a couple of days ago. Here's the long overdue update!

              I had to remake the battery box frame out of 18 gauge stainless steel because once I found a friend who could help me with the stainless welding the equipment he had access to couldn't do sheet metal as thin as 22 gauge (which was the thickness of the original box I bent up). This photo is the new box frame installed in the bike triangle. It uses aluminum off road jeep mounting clamps on the top of the box and is attached to 3 of the 4 water bottle bosses on the other sides. It would have been all 4 except for a bending mistake that put the weld right on top of the 4th boss.

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              I cut the box sides out of some aluminum signs a friend found in a dumpster, then used the cobalt bits to drill screw holes to install the sides on the box frame. I used appliance nuts to hold the removable side on but may need to replace them with welded on acorn nuts for a little more strength. I drilled a hole in the front of the box for the cockpit wires and in the bottom for the motor wires. Between the battery and the motor i installed the luna master on off switch and a fisherfabhouse light splitter i made by taking an XT-90S pigtail set, an XT-30 pigtail, and 10 gauge waterproof crimps. All wiring is run inside the box so the final product will be really clean:

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              This is the installed Luna power switch:

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              The belt drive seems to be working well on the limited test rides I've taken. The rear cog spacing is all the way out as far as it goes since the bottom bracket shell is a few mm wider than the previous generation frame in the build that this build was based on.

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              I drilled a magnetic Rosenberg charge port into the right battery box panel and crimped together an adaptor to fit the XT-60 charging input on the battery. I did the same to make a charge cable for the Luna advanced charger:

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              Here are some shots of the test assembly of the bike. Don't mind the messy cabling in the cockpit, it will be super clean after final assembly. The Eggrider computer and lack of brake sensors will result in a super minimal and clean but functional cockpit. I do have brake sensor cables in case i need them, but I'm hoping to not have to use them. The brakes are 4 piston Shimano XT hydraulics so in an emergency they should stop the motor dead:

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              The bike rides really well, but the shifting is not hooked up yet so I had to huff this thing out of the saddle up hills to not overload the motor. I heard that loud cracking sound a few times unfortunately, so I may not ride anymore till I get the shifting figured out.

              The next steps are to fix the shifting, drill a few more holes to hold the side panels on, figure out if I'm going to weld acorn nuts inside, and then send the frame, fork, and box to powdercoating for some matte black love <3
              Last edited by Overkill; 04-27-2020, 06:58 PM.
              Intro, Belt Driven Build

              Comment


                #25
                Rider, where did you source that bolt on cable stop you have on your rear triangle for the shift cable? That is the missing piece I need to get the shifting working on this build. I've seen bolt on stops for top tubes and down tubes but nothing small enough for the rear triangle tubes.

                thank you!
                Intro, Belt Driven Build

                Comment


                • Overkill
                  Overkill commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I think I found them, looks like Sturmey Archer fulcrum clips, part#s HSJ553 and HSJ548. Universal Cycle has them.

                #26
                Are those Super Motos?

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                • Overkill
                  Overkill commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yep! The 2.8’s

                • calfee20
                  calfee20 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I have a pair of those and don't have a real good bike to use them on. At least right now.

                • Overkill
                  Overkill commented
                  Editing a comment
                  So far they are great! I think they arent as flat proof as the thinner ones and i’m hoping that isnt an issue. My frame is still waiting to have the headset pressed in after powdercoating so i havent put many miles on them yet

                #27
                I have a pair of 650B Super Moto 2.8 tires on my pack mule, and so far they've held up fine, rejected a few nails, and are surprisingly fast. Based on these results, I bought a pair of 20" by 2.4 for my peewee bike. They'll go on when I convert the bike to IGH.
                Last edited by ncmired; 07-17-2020, 10:05 AM.

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                  #28
                  Overkill, do you happen to have a parts list for the rear cog and spacers/washers you ended up using? Unfortunately, I can't really tell from the photos. :-/

                  I've looking to try a similar Gates CDX build with the Strumey-Archer CS-RK3 and BBS02, but with the Soma Juice (29") rather than the 27.5 Riff. I've been hoping to ballpark the rear cog spacing, and given both the Juice and Riff have a 73mm BB, I imagine it shouldn't be too far off to line up the rear cog.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by ncmired View Post
                    I have a pair of 650B Super Moto 2.8 tires on my pack mule, and so far they've held up fine, rejected a few nails, and are surprisingly fast. Based on these results, I bought a pair of 20" by 2.4 for my peewee bike. They'll go on when I convert the bike to IGH.
                    Its great to hear that you have had positive results with these! They were the only plus sized tires i could find that seemed set up for high miles and speed.
                    Intro, Belt Driven Build

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                      #30
                      Originally posted by Blender View Post
                      Overkill, do you happen to have a parts list for the rear cog and spacers/washers you ended up using? Unfortunately, I can't really tell from the photos. :-/

                      I've looking to try a similar Gates CDX build with the Strumey-Archer CS-RK3 and BBS02, but with the Soma Juice (29") rather than the 27.5 Riff. I've been hoping to ballpark the rear cog spacing, and given both the Juice and Riff have a 73mm BB, I imagine it shouldn't be too far off to line up the rear cog.
                      Im not in front of the bike right now, but i ended up using spacers to push the rear cog exactly as far out as possible and it was perfect when I did a test assembly. I just got the frame back from powdercoating and facing so its possible that the spacing might decrease slightly as the frame wasnt faced during the test assembly. Im hoping to assemnle it this week and can note the final rear spacing when i do.

                      when you say parts list do you need more info than the amount of spacing? Afaik you would just use whatever combination of spacers gives you the magic number. For the cog its just a gates rear cog in the right size for the gear ratio i want
                      Intro, Belt Driven Build

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