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Luna X1 - M600 teardown - PEEK gear replacement

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    Luna X1 - M600 teardown - PEEK gear replacement

    This is video 1 on my Luna X1 M600 PEEK gear replacement
    This video shows how to get the motor out of the frame and remove the spider lock ring

    I am uploading video #2 that shows the M600 tear down
    I'll be back when Video #2 is ready to go

    Video #1 link

    Last edited by EL34; 02-21-2020, 02:02 PM.

    #2
    Video #2 - M600 tear down 1440p

    Last edited by EL34; 02-21-2020, 03:20 PM.

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      #3
      I am re-assembling the M600 this morning.
      I ran into an issue getting the new gear back into the housing.
      It came out a lot easier than it is going in

      The gears came out easily by tapping back and forth as was shown in my video #2 above
      Tapping the two gears back into the housing was not working
      The Peek gear wanted to go in at an angle

      I then remembered that I have a press here :)
      The press was the ticket
      I pressed one gear a tiny bit, then the other gear a tiny bit
      I went back and forth several times until both gears were seated properly

      I shot a video of the gear pressing



      Here's a couple images of the gears pressed back into the housing


      Click image for larger version  Name:	Img_1403.jpg Views:	0 Size:	299.4 KB ID:	102079Click image for larger version  Name:	Img_1402.jpg Views:	0 Size:	323.1 KB ID:	102080
      Last edited by EL34; 02-22-2020, 10:16 AM.

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        #4
        I'm surprised you need a press. Mine are tight, but I can pull them out, and push in by hand. Going in by hand allows me to feel when one is tight, and time to press a little more on the other gear. But then again, I haven't installed mine with grease yet. That arrives later today, and I have to go pick up some blue thread locker.

        Going by hand also allows me to feel when one is mis-aligned, and too tight. It is possible when using a press to get a bearing in out of alignment. Be very careful.
        Last edited by kengps; 02-22-2020, 08:26 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by kengps View Post
          I'm surprised you need a press. Mine are tight, but I can pull them out, and push in by hand. Going in by hand allows me to feel when one is tight, and time to press a little more on the other gear. But then again, I haven't installed mine with grease yet. That arrives later today, and I have to go pick up some blue thread locker.

          Going by hand also allows me to feel when one is mis-aligned, and too tight. It is possible when using a press to get a bearing in out of alignment. Be very careful.
          If the new gear would have gone in by hand, I would not have needed to press it in. :)

          Comment


            #6
            I recommend that all the old grease be removed and replaced. Then clean everything thoroughly, by wiping with a clean cloth. I wetted mine slightly with some alcohol. Found a number of metal flakes, so consider the motor/grease to be contaminated.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by EL34 View Post

              If the new gear would have gone in by hand, I would not have needed to press it in. :)
              Yep. May be a lot of variance between different motors. How the gears come out can make a difference too. Possible to muck up the receptacle if too much force is used when removing the two gears. So everyone be careful, and realize these two gears have to come out together evenly. Perhaps a shop who works on these has a stepped spacer to be used for pressing in the two at the same time??
              Last edited by kengps; 02-22-2020, 10:04 AM.

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                #8
                Here's the video

                Last edited by EL34; 02-22-2020, 10:24 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by kengps View Post

                  Yep. May be a lot of variance between different motors. How the gears come out can make a difference too. Possible to muck up the receptacle if too much force is used when removing the two gears. So everyone be careful, and realize these two gears have to come out together evenly. Perhaps a shop who works on these has a stepped spacer to be used for pressing in the two at the same time??
                  I would rather have the bearings fit tight than loose :)
                  If you can push them into the housing by hand, that's too lose, IMO

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by EL34 View Post

                    I would rather have the bearings fit tight than loose :)
                    If you can push them into the housing by hand, that's too lose, IMO
                    The plastic gear bearing is supposed to be loose. Thats why it has a wave-spring washer under it. (the wavey thing). Wave springs are designed to provide set-back until an assembly is pressed together from the other side.

                    Do not add more Mobilegrease to the black stuff already there!! Leave it alone or replace it all.
                    Last edited by kengps; 02-22-2020, 03:21 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by kengps View Post

                      The plastic gear bearing is supposed to be loose. Thats why it has a wave-spring washer under it. (the wavey thing)
                      I doubt that
                      I work on spindle motors and router motors and they all have the wavy washers on one end, but the bearing cups are not loose
                      If by any chance the bearing is able to free spin, the washers with put tension on the bearing

                      The bearings did not come out by hand on my M600
                      They needed to be tapped out slowly
                      Last edited by EL34; 02-22-2020, 10:42 AM.

                      Comment


                        #12

                        If anyone has their gears jammed when starting out, then tap them back into the sub-assembly and start over from there. Tapping them back into the bearing well gets them back into alignment. It is possible for them to be rotated out of alignment if you don't remove the sub-assembly evenly as you pry it off the pins. So go slowly and evenly when that assembly comes off. It will pay off later.

                        Edit...note that the shafts have to both come out together at the same time....

                        When removing the shafts it will take several pushes and wiggles. The slightest mis-alignment and they will jam. Push evenly and lightly until it stops, then wiggle around until it goes loose again. Repeat until they come out. Shafts WILL jam, several times. But they will come out by hand. If you have to hammer it, or press it, it is mis-aligned. If you start by hammering, you will probably be forced to finish by hammering some more. (try first to tap it back in until it loosens) Of course there will be different motors, with different tolerances. YMMV.

                        Once re-installed my plastic gear shaft moves easily. I can press it down, and it telescopes back out again against the wave-spring. (if was not supposed to be free, there would not be a wave spring washer in there) If the bearing for the plastic gear gets pressed in all the way to the bottom of the bearing well and then sticks, the plastic gear can rub the steel gear next to it. If your bearing is tight, then leave it out slightly, and let it be pushed into place the final amount while bolting in the sub assembly. This will give it a slight gap between the steel gear, and PEEK gear.

                        Just make sure that the PEEK is not in contact with the horizontal surface of the steel gear. The Wave washer keeps it pushed out until the sub-assembly is bolted back in place. if yours was tight and you pressed it in all the way to the bottom, the two gears may be in contact.

                        Or you could let your motor be a plastic grinder for a while :) It will eventually wear itself down I would think.

                        NOTE: if your PEEK gear bearing is tight, you can push it back in using the hole under the rubber plug after the sub-assembly is bolted in. Probably a good idea to press that shaft back into the bearing well on the motor assembly in any case. Most likely your bearing will free it self (and slide back toward the motor assembly) once the sub-assembly is bolted back in. This will bring the shaft assembly back into alignment. IOW...if its tight, it's probably cocked.

                        First photos shows the gear pressed all the way in against wave washer. Second photo shows it after the washer pushes it back out.
                        Last edited by kengps; 02-22-2020, 08:55 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ride reports on the PEEK gear
                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          The first ride was up a very steep 15 minute climb as a quick test ride
                          The PEEK gear was almost silent on the flats before I started the climb
                          Once under a heavy load on the climb, the gear did make a high pitched whine noise
                          It was not as loud as the steel gear, but it was there
                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Second ride - A thousand feet of climbing and about 15 miles
                          After the ride:
                          It was very noticeable that the motor was quieter than on ride #1

                          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          So it appears the PEEK gear will quiet down after a break in period just like the stock steel gear
                          But a much shorter break in period than the steel gear

                          I plan to take the motor apart in few hundred miles and have a look at everything
                          Then re-grease the motor

                          I'll report back if I have any new info

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Luna Cycles just posted a PEEK gear replacement video
                            Here's the link

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Luna X1 Steel gear Vs PEEK gear sound test

                              I rode the same exact section of trail on December 19th 2019 with the original steel gear
                              And on February 25th 2020 with the new Luna PEEK gear replacement as a noise comparison.

                              The PEEK gear is not totally silent, but it is less noisy than the steel gear.
                              The PEEK gear has less high pitched whine and more of a smoother sound

                              I uploaded the Steel gear and PEEK gear videos separately.
                              And I also uploaded a video with both videos combined.

                              I think the best way to compare is to start both videos down below and then go back and forth pausing and starting them
                              The PEEK gear ride does not start up until about 1:05

                              The links to those 3 videos are below

                              Steel gear video - https://youtu.be/Ul3ycTTq_jE


                              PEEK gear video - https://youtu.be/tiDcZcwiU_M


                              Combined video of both rides - https://youtu.be/Qr-5iuF6twM
                              Last edited by EL34; 02-25-2020, 03:13 PM.

                              Comment


                              • kengps
                                kengps commented
                                Editing a comment
                                I hear a much more dramatic noise reduction on my BABE. Could be the sound is amplified differently with a Carbon frame. It may be that the Microphone auto gain was different from one day to the next. The gain may have been higher because the noise level was lower with PEEK gear. Most people are familiar with auto-exposure on their camera. It evens out the exposure whether outdoors in sunlight or indoors with much lower light levels. Exposure looks the same, even though light was much stronger outdoors. Same principal with microphone recording levels. Was your microphone gain set manually, and set to same gain from one day to the other? I wondered about that on Luna's video too. He had a great mic, but may not have been running manual gain. Also the bikes went by at different distances from the microphone.
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