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Luna X1 - M600 teardown - PEEK gear replacement

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  • EL34
    replied
    Here's an update on the tools that can remove the spider lock ring.
    Bike Hand
    YC-29BB-2A is a socket with a handle
    YC-29BB is just the socket

    Here's a few pics of both of them

    I got the socket only tool on Ali Express for $12
    https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale...KEHAND+YC-29BB

    The one with the handle is on ebay here
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bike-Hand-Y...e/392274686630
    Attached Files
    Last edited by EL34; 03-07-2020, 11:44 AM.

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  • DB60
    commented on 's reply
    It helps to remove the little rubber plug at the bottom of the housing when slipping the PEEK gear/bearing assembly back in, it lets the air escape. Just remember to put the rubber plug back in. Also don't forget to put the wavy spring washer back in before the gear assembly. There is no need to risk damage using a press, be patient and the gear/bearing will slip back in.
    Last edited by DB60; 03-01-2020, 07:07 PM.

  • kengps
    commented on 's reply
    I hear a much more dramatic noise reduction on my BABE. Could be the sound is amplified differently with a Carbon frame. It may be that the Microphone auto gain was different from one day to the next. The gain may have been higher because the noise level was lower with PEEK gear. Most people are familiar with auto-exposure on their camera. It evens out the exposure whether outdoors in sunlight or indoors with much lower light levels. Exposure looks the same, even though light was much stronger outdoors. Same principal with microphone recording levels. Was your microphone gain set manually, and set to same gain from one day to the other? I wondered about that on Luna's video too. He had a great mic, but may not have been running manual gain. Also the bikes went by at different distances from the microphone.

  • AgileMike
    replied
    Thank you for the videos and write up. I was wondering if it was quieter enough to justify the time and cost. Also how difficult the replacement was. You answered both of these questions quite well.

    Leave a comment:


  • EL34
    replied
    Originally posted by paxtana View Post
    Great info in this thread. Does the Luna video that was just uploaded track with your experience on the install?
    Thanks @paxtana
    Yes, the Luna video is good except for the corny music. I would much rather have the technician speaking as they do the procedure :)

    I could have gone much faster in my video if I had seen it done first
    I went real slow because it was uncharted territory for me :)

    Leave a comment:


  • kengps
    replied
    I found it did. Just have to wobble the gear shafts to pull them out of bearing well. I never realized the threaded holes in sub-assembly was for removal from motor frame.

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  • paxtana
    replied
    Great info in this thread. Does the Luna video that was just uploaded track with your experience on the install?

    Leave a comment:


  • EL34
    replied
    Luna X1 Steel gear Vs PEEK gear sound test

    I rode the same exact section of trail on December 19th 2019 with the original steel gear
    And on February 25th 2020 with the new Luna PEEK gear replacement as a noise comparison.

    The PEEK gear is not totally silent, but it is less noisy than the steel gear.
    The PEEK gear has less high pitched whine and more of a smoother sound

    I uploaded the Steel gear and PEEK gear videos separately.
    And I also uploaded a video with both videos combined.

    I think the best way to compare is to start both videos down below and then go back and forth pausing and starting them
    The PEEK gear ride does not start up until about 1:05

    The links to those 3 videos are below

    Steel gear video - https://youtu.be/Ul3ycTTq_jE


    PEEK gear video - https://youtu.be/tiDcZcwiU_M


    Combined video of both rides - https://youtu.be/Qr-5iuF6twM
    Last edited by EL34; 02-25-2020, 03:13 PM.

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  • EL34
    replied
    Luna Cycles just posted a PEEK gear replacement video
    Here's the link

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  • EL34
    replied
    Ride reports on the PEEK gear
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The first ride was up a very steep 15 minute climb as a quick test ride
    The PEEK gear was almost silent on the flats before I started the climb
    Once under a heavy load on the climb, the gear did make a high pitched whine noise
    It was not as loud as the steel gear, but it was there
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Second ride - A thousand feet of climbing and about 15 miles
    After the ride:
    It was very noticeable that the motor was quieter than on ride #1

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So it appears the PEEK gear will quiet down after a break in period just like the stock steel gear
    But a much shorter break in period than the steel gear

    I plan to take the motor apart in few hundred miles and have a look at everything
    Then re-grease the motor

    I'll report back if I have any new info

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  • kengps
    replied

    If anyone has their gears jammed when starting out, then tap them back into the sub-assembly and start over from there. Tapping them back into the bearing well gets them back into alignment. It is possible for them to be rotated out of alignment if you don't remove the sub-assembly evenly as you pry it off the pins. So go slowly and evenly when that assembly comes off. It will pay off later.

    Edit...note that the shafts have to both come out together at the same time....

    When removing the shafts it will take several pushes and wiggles. The slightest mis-alignment and they will jam. Push evenly and lightly until it stops, then wiggle around until it goes loose again. Repeat until they come out. Shafts WILL jam, several times. But they will come out by hand. If you have to hammer it, or press it, it is mis-aligned. If you start by hammering, you will probably be forced to finish by hammering some more. (try first to tap it back in until it loosens) Of course there will be different motors, with different tolerances. YMMV.

    Once re-installed my plastic gear shaft moves easily. I can press it down, and it telescopes back out again against the wave-spring. (if was not supposed to be free, there would not be a wave spring washer in there) If the bearing for the plastic gear gets pressed in all the way to the bottom of the bearing well and then sticks, the plastic gear can rub the steel gear next to it. If your bearing is tight, then leave it out slightly, and let it be pushed into place the final amount while bolting in the sub assembly. This will give it a slight gap between the steel gear, and PEEK gear.

    Just make sure that the PEEK is not in contact with the horizontal surface of the steel gear. The Wave washer keeps it pushed out until the sub-assembly is bolted back in place. if yours was tight and you pressed it in all the way to the bottom, the two gears may be in contact.

    Or you could let your motor be a plastic grinder for a while :) It will eventually wear itself down I would think.

    NOTE: if your PEEK gear bearing is tight, you can push it back in using the hole under the rubber plug after the sub-assembly is bolted in. Probably a good idea to press that shaft back into the bearing well on the motor assembly in any case. Most likely your bearing will free it self (and slide back toward the motor assembly) once the sub-assembly is bolted back in. This will bring the shaft assembly back into alignment. IOW...if its tight, it's probably cocked.

    First photos shows the gear pressed all the way in against wave washer. Second photo shows it after the washer pushes it back out.
    Last edited by kengps; 02-22-2020, 08:55 PM.

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  • EL34
    replied
    Originally posted by kengps View Post

    The plastic gear bearing is supposed to be loose. Thats why it has a wave-spring washer under it. (the wavey thing)
    I doubt that
    I work on spindle motors and router motors and they all have the wavy washers on one end, but the bearing cups are not loose
    If by any chance the bearing is able to free spin, the washers with put tension on the bearing

    The bearings did not come out by hand on my M600
    They needed to be tapped out slowly
    Last edited by EL34; 02-22-2020, 10:42 AM.

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  • kengps
    replied
    Originally posted by EL34 View Post

    I would rather have the bearings fit tight than loose :)
    If you can push them into the housing by hand, that's too lose, IMO
    The plastic gear bearing is supposed to be loose. Thats why it has a wave-spring washer under it. (the wavey thing). Wave springs are designed to provide set-back until an assembly is pressed together from the other side.

    Do not add more Mobilegrease to the black stuff already there!! Leave it alone or replace it all.
    Last edited by kengps; 02-22-2020, 03:21 PM.

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  • EL34
    replied
    Originally posted by kengps View Post

    Yep. May be a lot of variance between different motors. How the gears come out can make a difference too. Possible to muck up the receptacle if too much force is used when removing the two gears. So everyone be careful, and realize these two gears have to come out together evenly. Perhaps a shop who works on these has a stepped spacer to be used for pressing in the two at the same time??
    I would rather have the bearings fit tight than loose :)
    If you can push them into the housing by hand, that's too lose, IMO

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  • EL34
    replied
    Here's the video

    Last edited by EL34; 02-22-2020, 10:24 AM.

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