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Torque sensing on the X-1

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  • eskachig
    commented on 's reply
    I doubt that they bothered to handicap their customers tbh. I think that what happened was that Luna and Bafang developed this firmware under ridiculous pressure without much actual field testing (3 days while the Chinese dude was jetlagged) on a Ludi bike. It was never adequately tested or iterated on, and I doubt anyone went on a proper enduro-style mtb ride on it to really test out the effects, especially on non-Ludi bikes.

    And I don't know what else Luna could have done, given the way Bafang locked down their ecosystem and the requirements of the Ludi bikes.

    14.6 sounds a lot like 14.4 tbh - what El34 is riding. Maybe a little smoother.

    Honestly I don't think it's productive to blame anyone, the situation is what it is, the history is not that important. I'd rather get our bikes fixed, once we figure out a path forward.
    Last edited by eskachig; 10-11-2020, 07:07 PM.

  • Buzzard68
    replied
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and state what I think has happened. Eric Luna has stated firmly that he worked with Bafang to create a better program for the M600. That better program is the 14.5. Understand that Bafang can hang any tag it wishes on a program. The 14.5 we have been getting is probably not the program that Mr. Luna wanted. I suspect that 14.6 is Bafang's own program with the best of what they developed with Eric Luna, and other enhancements. Bafang then trashed the 14.5 program. Why you ask? It is Chinese ego to have the best, usually by theft. At this moment I am not suspecting Luna Cycles of any poor quality or design. I do suspect Bafang of playing tricks on Luna, as well as the customers of Luna.

    Leave a comment:


  • eskachig
    commented on 's reply
    That's for a different motor - but these guys are supposed to have an M600 version coming out soon.

    Still, that means another $700+ and you void your Bafang warranty.

  • scrambler
    replied
    You guys may want to have a look at the new Archon X1 controller from Wattwagons (initially the Innotrace controller from Germany and found on the Exess bike)
    Lots of very positive feedback from people who say power delivery is a lot smoother and energy consumption quite lower. And you can have access to the programming software to change the mapping of the pedal assist in an understandable way (unlike the original Bafang SW).

    https://wattwagons.com/pages/archon-x1-controller

    Some forum feedback
    https://electricbikereview.com/forum...erience.37309/

    Leave a comment:


  • kengps
    replied
    OK, sounds optimistic from what I'm hearing from Luna CS. They think they have what they need now to re-flash the motors to 14.6 version. Will take 2-3 weeks to research and test it out. They were very happy to be getting all the info and links that were posted here on the forum. Fingers crossed. Big thanks to Buzzard68 and eskachig.
    Last edited by kengps; 10-06-2020, 10:40 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • eskachig
    commented on 's reply
    I actually suspect that 14.5 is a special Luna version - other companies with M600s are getting the 14.6. 14.6 is dated to November '19 after all, it's not new, yet the new shipment of X-1s still had 14.5 on it.

  • Mike_V
    commented on 's reply
    "Torque sensor" means 'You pedal like donkey, while sweating up the hill'
    E.Shere

  • kengps
    replied
    Interesting that EL34 has version 14.4 and complained it has too much power in 1 and 2 out of 9. Purely speculation on my part...but was 14.4 too much, they turned it down to nearly nothing on 14.5, then got it right on 14.6??

    Leave a comment:


  • Desmodromic
    commented on 's reply
    I have one coming on Wednesday so I'll have to see how its number line up to these, but on the motor case and as reported on the display.

  • eskachig
    commented on 's reply
    I believe Eric is the company owner. I'm not sure why he requested these motors to be like they are. Maybe he tried it out in a high gear on flat ground, or something. And after all, there are some owners of the "good" bikes that say they want a little less power in low PAS, like El34.

    Still, the end result is essentially unusable in most mountain biking situations in low PAS, which is a bummer. I'm hoping Luna can help us out and restore Bafang's stock firmware. Even if they wanted less assist, they should have lowered the max wattage, not torque requirements/multiplier.

    Yeah, this is frustrating, but Luna doesn't hide the somewhat DIY nature of their products, and this bike is half the cost of its competition. And at the very least, it *is* a blast in PAS-3.
    Last edited by eskachig; 10-05-2020, 04:06 PM.

  • eskachig
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah, it's a versioning thing. The are some other things encoded into the firmware, so we don't really know where the major or minor version number begins, but clearly these are just iterations.

    The 43v version of the firmware, for example is CRX10NC4320i132045.6-20200806.bin - the last part is the origin date, the motor type is in there, and you can see where 48 is replaced with 43.

    But that's mostly just record keeping from Bafang's perspective, they have to manage thousands of these files.

    The .6 firmware is dated for Nov '19, so I'm not surprised that the first shipment of bikes doesn't have it - the ones customers Like El34 were receiving that month were already built and shipped by the time it came out. Looks like .4 was standard at the time, and the .5 is our gimped Luna-specific version. The latest 48v firmware we have floating around is .6, that seems to be Bafang's current. Someone on endless-sphere reported receiving it from Bafang's customer support recently.
    Last edited by eskachig; 10-05-2020, 03:54 PM.

  • Buzzard68
    replied
    I cannot fathom this mythical Eric, whoever he may actually be, specifying that the bikes he sells run poor on purpose. Odd that he failed to state that in the advertisements. A couple of new things. Luna sent my friend a motor in a box, an M600, obviously a used one, to try, to see if it would be any better than the on his bike came with. Luna also wants his new motor, from his new bike, back. Is a cold day in hell coming up soon? So we installed this "loaner" motor, checked first thing on the display, noted it was a .5 motor. It ran slightly better, in that it was quieter, had less drag in levels 1 and 2, but still had near no assist in 1 or 2. The other thing is, we noticed that on the side of the motors with the cooling fins, there is a cover with fins, and on one of the fins is a stick on number plate with the software # for the controller . Only thing of real note here is that it did not agree with what was actually in the controller on a couple of our bikes. My type A bikes with the .6 software have .5 on the decal. The loaner motor had .6 on the decal, and .5 in the actual software. Someone is sure mixing things up. Something I feel I should say at this point. Whoever designed this bike, and whoever builds this bike, has done a wonderful job. It is an incredible electric mountain bike! There is no Specialized, Trek, Salsa, or Cannondale that will compete with it. However, I am blessed with having received the .6 versions, but am still a bit nervous as to the lack of support from Luna. What good is a warranty if Luna will not respond, and feels no responsibility to make a customer happy? Will I ever be able to purchase an extra battery pack for this bike? I guess I incorrectly assumed Luna was a small company with a real brick and mortar store front, with actual employees and people. Giving a lot of room for this Covid thing to disrupt a small company, the response from Luna has been pitiful.

    Leave a comment:


  • eskachig
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah, I looked back at my original photo of that readout, and it looks like I made a typo somewhere. I edited it.

  • kengps
    replied
    Yes, everything is the same. Now we have:
    1 bike with version 14.4 too much power (first X1 delivery run)(EL34 says too much power in 1 and 2 out of 9)
    5 bikes with version 14.5 no to miniscule power
    3 bikes with version 14.6 just right
    Last edited by kengps; 10-05-2020, 05:50 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • kengps
    commented on 's reply
    Everyone else has 10101.0 Torque Software. Maybe eskachig got the dot wrong. Otherwise everything is the same with exception of controller software.
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