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Bafang BBSHD From LunaCycle, Purchase, Install and Review

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    Bafang BBSHD From LunaCycle, Purchase, Install and Review

    I (probably like many) debated for quite some time mulling over info on different types of systems. Eventually I settled on a bbshd, but of course had some questions about the system. Luna support was good on replying quickly, sometimes more details could have been provided, but I assume they deal with a lot of anxious new buyers like me.

    When I finally chose everything, I placed my order and literally 45 minutes later had a confirmation email saying my order was sent. 6 days later (I am in Canada and border services sometimes slow things down) I received my package from Luna along with a $123.xx charge from UPS (thanks UPS, confirming the reason I typically avoid them at all costs).

    I had spent an hour taking apart the bottom bracket on my Kona Sutra bike the night before, so everything was ready to go. Just as a background note, I have no experience with bikes other than riding them... I have never changed a tire, never lubed a chain, nothing... I unboxed the shipment eagerly and laid everything out. I know there are manuals available online, but I will say that by far my biggest complaint through this process was the fact that literally nothing is sent with the motor explaining how to piece it together... If Luna spent an hour or two putting together some very basic information to provide along with the motor, it would probably save some headaches. Anyways, I eventually figured it all out and the system actually went together pretty quickly. I did have to spend some time rigging things together to fit my bike.... The throttle didn't fit on my dropbars, but I got around this with an accessory drop bar. I also learned to solder on this project when I directly wired the battery mount to the controller... It's not pretty, but it works. On to the ride...

    My first bike ride was amazing. I felt like I could compete in the Tour de France... I typically bike approx 18ish mph when I go riding, this system allowed me to easily get that up to 22mph with less effort while only using pedal assist 1. I'll be using this as my new commuter bike and I am anxiously looking forward to starting asap. I'll post some more info and pictures soon, but for now, I'm off for another ride.

    In closing, I'll say if you are on the fence, my recommendation is to buy this system... I envision myself spending many many many more hours on my bike in the very near future.

    #2
    Nice to hear a 'bike service newbie' got it together with no issues. Lots of folks want to know of a trouble free combination so they won't have to fabricate. Good example here. Thanks.
    Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

    Comment


      #3
      Glad to read it went well. For anyone reading this you can easily plan the build by finding the manuals. Actually everything is here in the knowledge base. Bafang doesn't produce a manual and I've not seen anything newer than the version they did for the BBS01 and 02. Essentially everything is the same. Manuals for displays are here and on the sales site. Nearly everything can be found with a simple Google search. Anymore I just google any question I have and I usually get the answer quickly. If not the answer at least the right terms to better search.

      Don't forget to search youtube as well. There are so many great videos these days.

      Comment


        #4
        Louis, I worded my review how I did because I saw you post a very similar response to another person who basically suggested the exact same thing I did regarding some form of directions. As Luna says "a leader in the electric revolution" (or something along those lines), they should be making it as easy as possible for anyone supporting them and buying the kit. geez, at least label the packages... How the heck am I supposed to know what magnetic brake sensors look like, or what the other plug coming from the controller is (I eventually figured out it was for a gear sensor) or why my battery comes with 5 different connectors...

        Do they have to provide this info? Definitely not. Should they? Definitely. That's my opinion... Nonetheless, still highly recommend the kit.

        Comment


        • Rodney64
          Rodney64 commented
          Editing a comment
          Good comments, i had the same issues, but i did follow the installation video and also and replayed it back at different points during the install. I dont like reading something. I'm hands on.

        #5
        My commuter, 2015 Kona Sutra, 61cm bike. You can see my custom mounted throttle and how I mounted the pedal assist underneath the wraps.

        Comment


        • Pederd1227
          Pederd1227 commented
          Editing a comment
          Project 240, I have read your article from 2016 on the conversion of your Kona Sutra. How happy have you been with your conversion 4 years later? I have a 2014 Kona Sutra as well and was thinking of making the same Bafang system. Looking for any words of wisdom? Where did you get your drop down bar for your controller? I live in Kamloops BC and have been looking a Bafang conversion through Amazon.ca. Thanks in advance. Hope to connect.

        #6
        Originally posted by Project240 View Post
        Louis, I worded my review how I did because I saw you post a very similar response to another person who basically suggested the exact same thing I did regarding some form of directions. As Luna says "a leader in the electric revolution" (or something along those lines), they should be making it as easy as possible for anyone supporting them and buying the kit. geez, at least label the packages... How the heck am I supposed to know what magnetic brake sensors look like, or what the other plug coming from the controller is (I eventually figured out it was for a gear sensor) or why my battery comes with 5 different connectors...

        Do they have to provide this info? Definitely not. Should they? Definitely. That's my opinion... Nonetheless, still highly recommend the kit.
        I felt compelled to apologize if i seemed harsh or came off like Luna isn't there to help. Here are some of my thoughts on Luna and my time in CS.

        magnetic brake sensor, I just take the phrase and google it. Shazam! There it is. It takes just a bit of time. Please pay no attention to the sarcasm, but this is a neat little page. I search the phrase and then look at the images tab. I find so much great info that way.

        Please ignore the sarcasm.
        http://bfy.tw/78M1

        I'm amazed at what I can resolve by Googling a name or phrase. Especially helpful to me is a bicycle nomenclature page. Using correct terms gets even better information. I'm working on my first build with disc brakes and Luna sells them, but has no instructions. Within 5 minutes I have 4 great videos and several great breakup's or the parts. Off I go. I still may have to post to ES and get feedback from my favorite bike mechanic.

        None of us have all the answers, but as a group, like we're forming here, we can do anything eBike related.

        Luna guys are working hard to make it easier for builders. It does take a little bit of work. Every build is different. There are hundreds if not thousands of geometries to consider. That's the way kit building goes. It takes planning and yes some time searching out solutions that no manual can anticipate or begin to cover.

        All the manuals and goodies are close at hand. I'm not trying to marginalize, but, everything is just so close at hand. When I got my first kit I simply did searches. Mine came with NOTHNG. No from other than ES in the beginning. I quickly learned how to search. That said, all the same information is here on the forum as well.

        If you take a look at the about us page where Eric addresses his view on Lunacycle, you'll find the signature I used as a CS agent.

        "We offer wholesale prices to the public, but ask that you do your own research. Use electricbike.com and endless-sphere.com as a resource. "

        Luna took the next logical step from that and created this forum. No other vendor with the BBS series motors has done this. No one person or company can have all the answers.

        "Passion is needed for any great work, and for the revolution, passion and audacity are required in big doses."

        Comment


        • Pitchar
          Pitchar commented
          Editing a comment
          Louis, why don't you sell the inline brake sensor like the other seller? I think those would be more durable than the magnet and washer. I went with those. I have no doubt you'd not be as pricy.

          Pitchar

        • Louis
          Louis commented
          Editing a comment
          Please note my signature. I'm working on a name edit. I'm retired and have no input into Luna, except to poke Eric now and again if something is needed.
          Which cutout did you purchase? At one point Luna sold them all. Perhaps they were just out of stock.

          HWBS? Luna had them in my duty days.

        #7
        Well said.

        Google images is a great help, agreed.
        Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

        Comment


          #8
          There is a ton of info out there on the Bafang mid drives. Personally I had looked at so much before I got the motor that I hardly had to look at anything when I went to install it.

          Comment


            #9
            This is not meant to the OP in anyway i am just answering some of the stuff that came out in the thread later. I really appreciated your honest and fair review.

            I always thought that there should be some kind of buy in for DIY other than the cost...that people should do some research before buying and before assembling.

            If people want just snap together with a step by step guide its hard when the parts we sale will be used on many different bikes. So making a guide is hard.

            MOst of this DIY bike stuff sold by everyone does not have documentation...

            But man...we live in the time of not just google...but you tube.... you can find video guides for everything.

            We have made an effort to start making many video install guides for this stuff including the bbshd install.

            IT does take some time of research to figure out which drive to buy and which bike to mount it too and how to mount it to your bike....but you literally end up with a bike that costs thousands of dollars less than if you bought a complete ebike if you go through with it.

            There is no comparison to a home built bbshd for performance for the dollar...not even at over 5k price point.

            When i started Luna Cycle i figured the type of guys who needed a lot of hand holding etc could just buy from our competitors....because at the profit margin we sale its just not worth it for us to have customers that need a lot of hand holding.

            I use to be a professional chess coach (i taught the youngest chess master in history at 9 years old) and one of my big sayings is that you cant spoon feed anyone all the knowledge they need to get good at something like chess..... all you can do is to inspire them to love the game, and then they can do the work on their own.

            Definitely there is a lot to ebike building and its something i have known many people to get lost in ....actually as many people i know to get lost in chess. I mean lost in a good way. A perfect example is the awesome forum endless-sphere.com where the guys are so devoted to building, it seems they rarely ride..they just love to build and write about it and are always learning more in hopes of someday building the perfect bike.

            Spinning magnets is a perfect example... i think he just started for the first time riding an ebike and it was a bbshd that finally put him over the edge. The BBSHD just makes it so easy to build and own an amazing ebike without a lot of building time... to be honest its a little too easy and its making high performance ebikes a bit too accessible...to where maybe my 65 year old mom is going to end up buying and building one and hurting herself.

            Its easier now than it has ever been to build something spectacular and i am proud luna did what it set out to do to make this stuff more affordable. We are seeing less price gouging and dealers everywhere are lowering their prices so that all awesome for the scene...but its just getting pretty easy (and cheap) to build an awesome ebike.


            Every ebike is different...and i think for example its a mandatory skill that someone who is going to ride and maintain a home bought ebike that they know how to solder or to crimp a wire connection.....if they dont want to learn how to do that i dont know how far they are going to get in the hobby. Its like getting into auto repair but refuse to use a socket set.

            Comment


            • ericmalcolm993
              ericmalcolm993 commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes Eric Eric Malcolm here and although my $3,000 bike has not been running for 3 years and I did buy a lectric bike, I look forward to becoming fully knowledgeable about the ludicrous KHS that I did purchase.
              Coming back to learned dependece. We were all brainwashed into it our job is to figure our way out not bad work if you can get it ask anyone in China I'm sure.

              Oh and Eric keep those Californians in check please I had to leave thanks

            #10
            Eric, I think you're missing the point a bit. I'm a new BBS02 owner, (first ride 05 august 16) and I'm generally satisfied with the purchase. But I'm with Project240 on this one. I eventually figured it out, but to get just get a box of parts and NOTHING else does not make a great first impression.

            I'm not asking for hand holding. I'm also not asking you to teach me the skills that I need to assemble the bike. I won't go on about my technical training and experience, but I'm pretty sure it's more than 95% of your other customers. I'm the sort of person who thinks it's not manly to read the instructions on how to open a patio chair, but even I'm willing to admit that there are times when a little bit of written guidance can be useful. So if I'm put off by the lack of the most basic of written materials, it's a good bet that others are, too. I think you've lost sight of the fact that most of us are setting eyes on a BBS for the first time. We have the basic skills, but not intimate familiarity with this particular product. A little bit of an introduction goes a long way.

            How about we start with something simple: a packing list. I had to guess whether I got what I ordered. And it turns out there was a mistake, which I didn't discover until I tried to install the last component. Luna made it good, but it delayed my first ride a week. I get a sack of bolts. Where do these go? Did I get enough? Eventually I figured out which bolt went where, but a list that says I'm supposed to have 5 M5s and they attach the chainwheel to the bracket is very useful. Even to the experienced mechanic.

            The next thing would be a one page set of assembly instructions. Nothing fancy, someone would just have to watch one of your assemblers put one together and write it down. I don't need you to tell me how to get my bottom bracket off, but don't make me guess which connector is which and which part goes on first. Yeah, every project is different, and I'm not suggesting that you try to guess which parts are going to have to be removed from my donor in order to get the bracket to go on, but some guidance about where the speedometer sensor goes and the right way to put it on would help.

            So that's two pieces of paper, which will cost next to nothing to produce, but will give even experienced users a lot better start, and make them much more likely to encourage others to go buy their own Lunacycles BBSxx.

            A customer complaint is a gift; please take it that way. If I wasn't cheering for you to succeed I wouldn't have spent as much time as I did writing this message. I even started writing the installation instructions. Trouble is that after only two weeks I already can't remember what I had to do over because I guessed wrong about how to put something on. I think i'll post what I have and let everyone else correct my mistakes.

            Comment


              #11
              I agree there should be a packing list, that's pretty basic courtesy. But what I think Eric is saying is that the installation manual is online in the form of dozens of videos and forum posts. I notice Luna is making a good effort to produce videos so I imagine the situation is going to get better soon. And just as an example a google search of "BBSHD install" yields 16,000 hits! The second of which is this article on Luna's own site https://www.electricbike.com/bbshd-installation-basics/
              Last edited by OptimusPrime; 08-19-2016, 03:51 PM.

              Comment


                #12
                Yes a simple packing list made by us would not be a bad idea. I will add it to the list of stuff we need to eventually proivde.

                We we have just done the 3rd video in a series of online videos on bbshd install just yesteday: here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJOO2lWuVKo


                We also have a 3 article series we link to on the top of the product add.

                We also link to the website of the bafang bbshd manual with 60 pages including a packing list.

                Should we print out that 60 page manual and throw it in the box?

                I mean i think having a 60 page manual would make it even more intimidating...and we do link to the manual on the top of the add.

                I am going to go into the BBSHD add and do a faq section which compiles even more info we have on the drive into one place.....

                But really adaptting that drive to a bike is not so easy that we could cover it in one sheet.

                I dont know if its necessary to have a DVD or a owners manual in the box when we have so many resources linked to on the product add.

                Its rare that people even buy computers these days with dvd drives....

                These days a lot of these tech items dont come with paper mauals


                I have bought 2 drones latey...both cost over 2k...both came with nothing in terms of paper manual.


                I tihink we got china to thank for this...this stuff is being made in china and their strong point is not manual writing for sure.

                Also the fast internet which makes paper manuals, cds and dvds, petty much obsolete.

                Comment


                  #13
                  Ok so i was just looking over the product add thinking a picture to use as a packing list would be the best thing...and forgot we areadly did this.

                  Here is the picture which is the 2nd picture in the add...would this satsify you guys as a product list?

                  Do you think its necessary we print that out and put it in every box?

                  This is someting we could easily do if it gives a better impression.

                  BUt here is where it gets tricky...the packing list varies form order to order depending on the customers chosen options...

                  Do we print out a custom packing list with the order? Click image for larger version

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                  Comment


                    #14
                    Really good discussion here...it's kind of philosophical. It shows differences in viewpoint. What is a 'kit'? What is a DIY Builder? It gives insight into customer expectations, which as noted above is a gift to any retailer. It's kind of customers to take the time to provide such suggestions.

                    Better instructions could broaden the market to more people and make builds easier, I agree! But they really have to be 'better instructions'. Not just 'more instructions'.

                    But here's the problem with that: Good assembly instructions are hard to write in a way that they will be consistently interpreted, even when you know every single part being used. Throw variation of donor bikes, batteries, etc in the mix, it becomes a monumental task. I don't think it's possible to do thorough assembly instructions that will make these builds non-frustrating for the kind of buyers who expect structured, comprehensive, easy to follow instructions like they get with their plastic models or new TV set. (no intended reference to any posters here; general statement only...)

                    If you try to provide that level of build instructions, then I think you risk luring more 'non-DIY' type customers who will ultimately get stuck and be dissatisfied. If you can make it clear, before purchase, that that's not the situation, you do a huge favor for such buyers. Help set their expectations for Luna kits in an accurate way.

                    The way it's explained on Luna Cycle website and forum is perfect, basically telling buyers they need to be able to figure out 'what is my question', go find the answer on the web, and figure out how to research it for themselves. Put all that info into a concise statement on the product page. I've seen Louis explain this pretty well. Only not quite 'delicately' enough for a product page, tweak the working a bit :)

                    --

                    So, what to provide?

                    I think an index of various good online info sources on the product page, with one main 'read this first' section, would be perfect. Don't print and ship detailed instructions, don't send DVDs. That's crazy. Developing comprehensive instructions is not where Luna Cycle should spend a lot of resources at this point in it's evolution, IMHO. But, make it easier for a customer to find the info. Not just 'Google it' or 'go to our Youtube page and forum', but rather, 'here are good instructions for xxx'.

                    So with all that said, here are a few things you might be able to improve with reasonable effort:
                    • Providing a printed packing list for each order is a solid request.
                      • Don't just list 'BBSHD Kit' on the packing list. Include the breakdown. 2 crank arms. 1 speed sensor. etc.
                    • A separate reference with pics of the various components is needed, as well. Like your above examples. Online is fine.
                      • Make sure the component names used match what is on the packing list!
                    • A connectors and wiring diagram is needed. This could be integrated with the component ID page. Schematic of the bike....like the diabolical diagrams that come with a new TV showing possible combinations, but much simpler.
                    • A list of a few 'easy donor bike & motor kits reported to work well' should be part of that product page reference set.

                    --

                    If Luna can eventually develop thorough, widely-applicable kits with easy instructions, to the point that it opens up ebike building to a bunch of new 'mild DIY' skill level customers, that would be a major asset. But once it's published info, everybody can use it, and it's not a Luna advantage anymore. Nice for the global ebike community, but not high return on investment for Luna.

                    Spend your resources sourcing and developing great components and accessories, and providing strong customer support. IMO.

                    --

                    A reasonable short-term evolution for Luna's kit offerings might be to do comprehensive kits for a few specific donor bikes. One stop shopping. "Here's everything you need to put together a 2016 BBSHD Motobecane Sturgis with xxx frame size". Give them the right spacers and fasteners, connectors, controls, harness lengths, wire routing diagram, etc to work with no fabrication or follow up orders to Luna. Plug and play.

                    Build the first bike up in the shop, use that to develop the kit, video, and any written instructions, then sell it as a pre-built. Have a feature build thread to introduce it. Pretty much what users on the forum do, but with 'professional' level documentation. Ideally pick bikes which will not change with every new model year.

                    That's how I see it, anyway.







                    Last edited by JPLabs; 08-20-2016, 08:42 AM.
                    Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

                    Comment


                      #15
                      An exploded drawing of the typical BBSHD hookup with wiring and crank arms, display, etc. represented by symbols and boxes would be good.
                      ​Include that list of install videos and threads on the sheet, and I think it would make the right impression without spending a lot of time and money to produce.
                      ​Also a packing list or invoice copy would be good - there was nothing in my box besides parts that I recall.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Here's an example of what I mean.
                      ​I'm chiming in here because I just ordered and misunderstood what comes with Bare bones BBSHD online and was even more confused when I got my box and did not have everything I needed and did not know what I was missing.
                      ​Something like this would have been very helpful.

                      Next, on the reverse side?, you could list accessories in the same manner with a drawing.
                      I think that would lead to more follow up sales of accessories.
                      Hope this helps fellows.:-)

                      Comment

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