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New BBSHD Clicking Under Load - Troubleshooting Help

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    New BBSHD Clicking Under Load - Troubleshooting Help

    I’ve had my BBSHD up and running for about a week now it’s a lot of fun to ride. I’ll be putting together a build thread soon, but I’m having an issue that I hope this forum can help me understand. The bike is a Surly ECR, with the 100mm BB BBSHD shimmed appropriately. I have a Luna Eclipse installed for a proper chain line. I’m using a Luna 52V, 17AH triangle pack with Panasonic GA cells.

    The unit was running fine up until Sunday afternoon, 5 days after my installation was complete. I started noticing that when I apply full throttle, there is a clicking noise down around the BBSHD unit. It sounds almost like electrical arcing. The clicking stops when I get up to speed. After two days of commuting, the clicking happens in PAS mode as well, but again, once I get up to speed it stops. If I go up a hill, it will start again.

    This happens no matter which gear I’m in, but is more pronounced in higher gears. When I lift the back of the bike up and apply throttle, I don’t hear the clicking. Based on this, the problem appears to be an issue with the amount of load being applied. The BBS02 troubleshooting guide (https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/1...ur-bbs02-unit/) leads me to believe that the mosfets are going bad on my unit already. With only 50 miles on the bike, I’ll be very disappointed if this is the case.

    I’ve submitted a help ticket with Luna Cycle with my initial assumption of the controller failure. They don’t think it’s the controller and suggested it was a poor chain line. I have the Luna Eclipse installed and my chain line is very strait in mid gear (see attached). I told them this, but they haven’t provided an alternate reason, so I’m reaching out here.

    In the past three days, the clicking has only gotten worse. I’m worried that my main mode of transportation will be kaput by the end of the week. Can the mosfets really go bad this soon? Should I purchase a new controller preemptively so that I can fix this if it fails completely? If this is the reliability of the BBSHDs, then maybe I chose the wrong drive system. Any insight would be helpful.

    #2
    To provide some insight, I made a video. The clicking I'm talking about starts a 3 seconds and ends at 7 seconds. You can hear it again at 12 seconds but the wind noise is louder.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oY30PAPyrvQ

    Comment


      #3
      MosFETs don't generally click or give warning before they fail. If they fail the drive would almost certainly not run at all. The noise is more likely mechanical and a disassembly, inspection and greasing might be the best next step.

      I can't tell much from your video except that you are not taking proper safety precautions with loose clothing near the chain. Safety first.

      People depending on ebikes for transportation should have a backup of some sort, ebikes can be reliable but some times they need parts that take a few days to get or problems that take a few days to sort out.

      The most reliable ebikes are DD hubs due to their simplicity. They are heavy but they just keep going and going with very little maintenance. Mid drives depend a lot of moving parts to function. They are light and climb really well but they require more maintenance.

      The BBSHD is a great mid drive, quiet, strong and sturdy. Good luck with your system and let us know what you find.
      Alan B

      Comment


        #4
        Sounds are odd and hard to sort. I had a customer who read about the plastic gear being a problem and as soon as there was a problem, a loud clicking sound, he was convinced that gear failed. Same with another fellow who read part of the Mosfet upgrade saga. Everything is the controller for that guy. Now, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or demeaning in any way but Its' always good to put the bike up on a rack and run the motor to see and hear exactly where the noise is coming from. Could be something happening with the clutch and pawls and very simple. Get it suspended or on a rack to sort the sounds. It could be something completely unrelated to the motor.

        I havd a backup controller as well as some other bits that may be consumables. But when things go south for me it's usually a part I don't have. Oh the joy!

        This is something we deal with when building. Like Alan I have a not so great, but adequate backup bike since bikes are my only transport. Stuff happens and my hub drive always runs.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for the input. I guess I'll do some more troubleshooting. Putting the bike up on a stand doesn't do much as the clicking doesn't happen when there is no load. It's comforting to know that the problem is unlikely controller related. I'm much more adept at mechanical issues than electrical issues. I'll see if I can replicate the clicking in a controlled environment without all the wind. Worst case, I'll re-grease the drive unit and hope for the best.

          I'll be more carefull with my pants from now on as well.

          Comment


            #6
            New development. The clicking happens even when the load is being applied by me. I put the bike in high gear with the BBSHD Unit off, and i got the clicking when I pedal hard. I'm thinking it might be the clutch now.

            Comment


              #7
              Is this once or twice per crank rotation? Maybe you just need to tighten the crank arms?
              Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

              Comment


              • Doc.neuman
                Doc.neuman commented
                Editing a comment
                I don't think so, otherwise it wouldn't happen using throttle. ill check them when i get home in case you're right.

              • JPLabs
                JPLabs commented
                Editing a comment
                Ahh, I missed the throttle only part. Not crank arms then, you're right.

              #8
              Something loose as mentioned, the crank or perhaps the motor itself needs tightening, be my guess.

              Comment


                #9
                I saw this video earlier my support guys showed it to me, and it seemed a bit peculiar..... it does seem like it might be the clutch.

                I can tell you this is a super rare problem and i apologize this has happened to you but dont worry we will take care of that drive either right away or in the future.

                It could possibly be the clutch slightly defective.....but not enough to cause failure.

                you could either send it back to us now or just continue to ride it for a while and enjoy it and send it back to us later if and when it fails or when the riding season is done. you seem to be enjoying your bike and I think you should just continue to ride while the weather is nice. It will also really help us identify what the problem is if it happens to get worse. my guess is its just a small problem that will make that slight noise and never get worse than that.

                Also We are also willing to send you a new clutch and some mobile 28 grease if you j want to take it apart yourself and replace clutch and try greasing it.

                Again sorry this happened to you.

                Comment


                • Doc.neuman
                  Doc.neuman commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thanks for the support! Gary mentioned that he was sending a new clutch my way. I'll take plenty of pictures and update you for future troubleshooting. I'll send back the old clutch if you want it for investigation.

                  I have been riding the bike daily and the clicking is getting a bit worse, but it still pulls hard. and it hasn't prevented me from getting anywhere.

                • Doc.neuman
                  Doc.neuman commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Eric,

                  Problem Solved. It was the Luna Eclipse bolts the whole time. I feel foolish about the whole issue, but I've got to give a big thank you to you and your company for the service you've provided. Absolutely top notch attitudes and a willingness to make it right. You'll be seeing plenty of my business in the future, and you'll be getting that new clutch back in the mail.

                • Eric Luna
                  Eric Luna commented
                  Editing a comment
                  so glad to here you worked it out..... dont feel bad at all we are all learning.

                #10
                The new clutch came in already. Thank you to Luna for the speed of addressing this issue. I pulled the secondary reduction gear apart on my BBSHD unit and the existing clutch looked to be in good working order. All the pieces in the secondary reduction unit looked in good order actually. The amount of grease left something to be desired, but I can address that in a few weeks when I get some Mobile 28. I replaced the old clutch with the new one in hopes of a fluke issue, but it didn't change anything. I swapped back to the old clutch and I'll be sending the new one back.

                When putting things back together, I made sure everything was torqued well, took it for a spin, and still got the clicking. After all this I tried to think about what else it cold be, and after looking at the internals, I ruled out the secondary housing. I started to think about the chain itself, and did a few tests with no one on the bike. It led me to looking at the chain wheel trying to see or hear if the chain was the culprit, and I noticed a set of bolts that I never thought to check. The bolts on the Luna Eclipse were loose the whole time...I tightened them (some as much as 1/2 a turn) and everything sounds good now. I ran the bike through it's paces and didn't get any clicking.

                I feel like a fool jumping to conclusion and blaming the BBSHD. I should have checked these bolts earlier, I just never though to look at them. Hopefully, this will be a lesson learned in the Luna Household and they can lead someone with a similar issue down the right path later. Thank you again to Luna for putting up with me; the customer service was excellent.

                Comment


                  #11
                  Thanks for reporting back, great thing to know and keep in mind as we learn how to diagnose these setups.
                  Alan B

                  Comment


                    #12
                    As a programmer (but also as an eBike enthusiast), I can relate to this thread.

                    Glad you got it all worked out.
                    Last edited by WebEsquire; 09-08-2016, 05:44 PM.

                    Comment


                      #13
                      I'm having a similar issue that only seems to happen when the motor is warmed up some. I've put over 700 miles on it since I built it about 3 weeks ago. I have the steel reduction gear on order from Luna where I wish I bought my kit from. I'm hoping that cures the problem.

                      Comment


                        #14
                        Me too having the same issue that possibly appears to happen when the engine is heated up a few. I've put more than 700 miles on it since I fabricated it around 3 weeks back. I have the steel decrease gear on request from Luna where I wish I purchased my pack from. I'm trusting that fixes the issue. free fire for pc
                        Last edited by rithik123; 09-23-2020, 03:51 AM.

                        Comment

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