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Getting from the Beach to my house at 900ft above sea level?

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    Getting from the Beach to my house at 900ft above sea level?

    Hello all, I'm new here and did say hello over in the Introductions forum.

    I want an electric bike to get right down to the sand on the beach so I can go surfing(real ocean waves, not the internet)

    I live not far from Trestles a surfing spot at the south end of San Clemente, California. I always use my traditional bike to get down to the beach there. I have a surfboard trailer called a Wheele ( http://wheelerack.com/ ) that I use to tote my surfboard(s) and wetsuit and stuff down to the beach there using my traditional mountain bike. I've been seeing more and more guys using electric bikes to get to Trestles. And I've considered a Sondor and even a RadRover.

    But what I'm wondering if I can get myself or build a bike that will get me to a good surfing spot right near my house. Problem is that I live up one of the biggest hills near this beach very close to my house. I live at about 900ft above sea level. But this beach is probably only 1.75mi in total actual distance away from my house. So what I'm saying is that this is a pretty steep hill going from about 75ft above sea level to approximately 900ft above sea level.

    Can I get or build a bike that will get me up my hill?
    Last edited by g725s; 09-03-2016, 06:47 PM.

    #2
    Definitely! I have the BBSHD on my mountain bike at the moment. In my lowest gear (42t Front, 36t Rear) I can climb up just about anything going 15-17mph. When climbing in first gear the motor is at the top rpm pulling maybe 500w max (barely working hard at all). If you built a bike with either the 30 tooth front gear or a 42 tooth rear gear set you would probably only go a little slower but would pull a trailer up an even steeper grade quite nicely. (All speeds mentioned above were without any peddling). I wouldn't recommend a commercial ebike as they will run you $5000 or more and will have serious limitations depending on where you buy it from. In the EU they have very low speed limits (20mph) and are assist only. A Do-It-Yourself kit takes a little effort but can be had for $1000 or less and will be fully unlocked and modular. The BBSHD as well as all other kits I have seen thus far come with some form of peddle assist as well as a thumb/twist throttle for when you feel like being lazy so you can just ride it like a motorcycle. Plus, who doesn't love being able to do 30+MPH on a bicycle!?!? Well, if you are going on a road and want to stay legal I believe the laws for Cali are 20MPH throttle and 28MPH peddle assist with a limit of 750w. A mid drive kit would be best for your application as they can take advantage of the bike's gearing to climb steeper hills at lower speeds within the legal power limit. A hub motor kit is far simpler to install but they are direct drive only and tend to require TONS of power if you are climbing hills. My GoldenMotor Magic Pie (Hub Motor) takes about 1500w to climb steep hills at the same speed as my BBSHD Mid drive does at 500-700w. Plus, if you are pulling a load you definitely will want to be able to use the gears!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by DCMoore View Post
      Definitely! I have the BBSHD on my mountain bike at the moment. In my lowest gear (42t Front, 36t Rear) I can climb up just about anything going 15-17mph. When climbing in first gear the motor is at the top rpm pulling maybe 500w max (barely working hard at all). If you built a bike with either the 30 tooth front gear or a 42 tooth rear gear set you would probably only go a little slower but would pull a trailer up an even steeper grade quite nicely. (All speeds mentioned above were without any peddling). I wouldn't recommend a commercial ebike as they will run you $5000 or more and will have serious limitations depending on where you buy it from. In the EU they have very low speed limits (20mph) and are assist only. A Do-It-Yourself kit takes a little effort but can be had for $1000 or less and will be fully unlocked and modular. The BBSHD as well as all other kits I have seen thus far come with some form of peddle assist as well as a thumb/twist throttle for when you feel like being lazy so you can just ride it like a motorcycle. Plus, who doesn't love being able to do 30+MPH on a bicycle!?!? Well, if you are going on a road and want to stay legal I believe the laws for Cali are 20MPH throttle and 28MPH peddle assist with a limit of 750w. A mid drive kit would be best for your application as they can take advantage of the bike's gearing to climb steeper hills at lower speeds within the legal power limit. A hub motor kit is far simpler to install but they are direct drive only and tend to require TONS of power if you are climbing hills. My GoldenMotor Magic Pie (Hub Motor) takes about 1500w to climb steep hills at the same speed as my BBSHD Mid drive does at 500-700w. Plus, if you are pulling a load you definitely will want to be able to use the gears!
      Thanks for the reply DCMoore.

      I was seriously considering pulling the trigger on a RadRover two days ago with the intention of getting in and out of Trestles (only slight incline), but got to talking to a neighbor today who just so happened to also be thinking of getting an e-bike with the intention of getting to the beach by our house, which means getting back up our hill. I had not considered it possible so was not thinking that route. And he was also saying from his research that a Mid Drive would be best. In fact is was this link at electricbike.com that my neighbor pulled up on his phone which talked about the Mid Drives being able to climb hills best.

      So now, If I'm going to get an e-bike I should get one that could also get me to the beach by my house also. With all the reading I've been doing, a custom Mid Drive build would be the best call. This would open up other possibilities like getting to the market at the bottom of the hill also.

      I think I would like to have a Fat Bike for the beach. I could probably get by without a Fat Bike. A Fat Bike would probably add more weight and not roll as easily. Anyone have recommendations for a Fat Bike as a base to start with for building a BBSHD Mid Drive e-bike?

      Also not concerned about legality at this point. I will operate it responsibly. I would want the best for getting up my hill. Also I could get by with a side mount rack for my bike to carry my surfboard which would help with roll.
      Last edited by g725s; 09-04-2016, 04:23 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        Honestly, it all boils down to cost. If you have thousands of dollars to burn there are infinite possibilities. Legalities aside, with a mid-drive like be BBSHD they are '750w' motors, but are capable of running 1500w right out of the box if you get the programming cable with the kit. I would say that at 1500w you are starting to hit the limit of what a regular cassette will handle in terms of torque. There are quite a few things to consider as well. For example, a 10 speed will have a lot of options as to what ratios are available for peddle assistance, but if you are throwing raw power at it the chain line deviations will cause more ware over time especially if you are climbing hills. So, something like a tall 7 speed would be better as their chains are much thicker and stronger. Just like in trucks, you have 2 possible paths for hill climbing. More power or more gearing. More power costs a lot more but will get you there faster. More gearing will get you there at a much lower cost. The reason I referenced state law was because otherwise there is no real metric for comparison.

        For example:

        If power/speed/cost were not a factor then the best build would be a dedicated single speed mid drive with a motorcycle chain as they can apply 10+KW and you just tune gearing for the application. At that point you have an electric motorcycle. The battery to feed that beast would be very expensive and require you to custom build the pack. Looking at $5000+ out of pocket.

        If you run a hub motor you could get close to the same performance as a dedicated chain mid drive, but with added unsprung weight and no gear multiplication. Hub motors to have the benefit of a far simpler installation compared to mid drive solutions.

        if you run a mid drive with the best possible bicycle parts you are pretty much going to hit a reliable limit of about 2kw as even the best parts on the market are just not capable of more than that under hard operating conditions (off-road or hill climbing)

        So, in summary, if you are looking to build a bike within rational cost limits using the legal limits is the best metric you can use for comparison.

        "Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?"

        Comment


          #5
          I do not personally recommend a Fat Bike. They are relatively new so parts availability is very low and the base models are more expensive than a decent full suspension bike that would be much lighter and more comfortable. From what I have seen from people that tried to convert Fat Bikes to mid drive, they end up running into a LOT of chain line issues that require expensive solutions. This is why the Sonders Ebike uses a hub motor. Plus they are heavy and have a god awful amount of rolling resistance.

          With the amount of time, effort, and money I have in two bikes, just the thought of sand in my well oiled chain line makes me cringe...

          Comment


            #6
            I just built up a Mongoose Argus Expert fat bike with the BBSHD and the Luna Killer Whale battery pack. I had only one issue with the conversion. The mount for the color display sold as an upgrade by Luna did not fit the 35 mm bulge in the handle bars that came with the bike. I switched the stem and handle bar to the 31.8 mm diameter (at the stem clamp) to solve that problem. Otherwise, I live in a hilly area, and the bike has no problem climbing up 800 foot hills. The bike weighed 36 lbs before conversion, and now weighs 55 lbs.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by DCMoore View Post
              With the amount of time, effort, and money [SNIP], just the thought of sand in my well oiled chain line makes me cringe...
              I don't really ride on the beach now, and if I did it would only be on hard packed. I don't think I'll have much problem with sand. I always push my bike on the sand and don't get a ton of sand on the chain but I get years of use without problems in that regard. Not much different than mountain biking in dirt I don't think. I wash my bike after every trip to the beach.
              Last edited by g725s; 09-04-2016, 12:35 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by iredbiker View Post
                I just built up a Mongoose Argus Expert fat bike with the BBSHD and the Luna Killer Whale battery pack. I had only one issue with the conversion. The mount for the color display sold as an upgrade by Luna did not fit the 35 mm bulge in the handle bars that came with the bike. I switched the stem and handle bar to the 31.8 mm diameter (at the stem clamp) to solve that problem. Otherwise, I live in a hilly area, and the bike has no problem climbing up 800 foot hills. The bike weighed 36 lbs before conversion, and now weighs 55 lbs.
                mind me asking how much you got into that rig so far? And can you post a picture of it :-) And no problem fitting the BBSHD on that frame?

                I found that someone put a BBSHD on a Mongoose Malus which is conserably cheaper, which I could upgrade later on.
                Last edited by g725s; 09-04-2016, 12:54 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by iredbiker View Post
                  I live in a hilly area, and the bike has no problem climbing up 800 foot hills.
                  After reading your comment I'm thinking that maybe you meant 800ft in a straight line. Just to be clear, I am meaning 800ft of rise over a 1.18mi distance.

                  Comment


                  • CraigAustin
                    CraigAustin commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The BBSHD will tackle that hill on any kind of bike. I wouldn't worry about it. Get a decent used bike on craigslist and you won't worry about the sand either. I'm all for taking good care of bikes, but they are meant to be ridden not showcased.

                  #10
                  I started with a single speed Gravity Deadeye Monster fat bike from Bikes Direct. http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ye-monster.htm I first added a BBSHD kit and a shark battery from Luna. Once I got moving very fast at all I couldn't pedal along (clown pedaling) which was quite annoying. Soon I found the courage to replace my rear hub with a 3 speed nexus internally geared hub. I read up a lot on lacing spokes and managed to get it done. I did have my local bike shop true my wheel which was money well spent. That combination has served me well. One of these days I'll do a full write up on my build but I've attach a few pics for now. I also recently purchased a small 5ah battery pack that I can fit under my seat for shorter rides.
                  Attached Files

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                    #11
                    I live in Colorado Springs, nothing is flat here. I go up and down 1-2 mile 7% inclines every day to and from wherever I need to go. I used the BBS02 from Feb until this week when I upgraded to the BBSHD.

                    I just got the $230 Mongoose Terrex from Walmart. It's a 27.5+ bike. It has 2.8" width tires, so not quite a fat bike but a great in between and you don't need any special mounting kits like you do with a fat bike. I did however take it to my bike store and have them put on better brake calipers and just do a once over.

                    The BBSHD will 100% do what you want it to do, and do it very well. I would suggest the BBSHD with the 52V 14Ah Shark pack battery. You will have plenty of power, more than enough for you, your bike and your loaded trailer.

                    I use the 46T stock chainring, but I'm not pulling a trailer behind me on most days (sometimes I pull my 9 year old son around on a trailer bike type thing - he gets a kick at flying down the path at 20mph).

                    You could get the 42T chainring just to keep the motor in the higher RPM values but if it's only over a 1.8 mile stretch you should be fine either way.

                    That's going to be by far your best bang for the buck in my opinion.

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